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TheImmortal

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How do you know? Russian officials have said that they are ready to sell the S-400 air defence system. so I don't see why fighter aircraft would be a problem. So far it seems that the lack of action is because Iran is not ordering.
Because S-400 is a defensive asset used to defend ones territory. You cant use an S-400 to bomb Saudi Arabia or fire upon US ships in the PG.

Can’t believe you are comparing the two. And also Russia only offered the S-400 knowing Iran didn’t need it anymore with its Bavar system. So it offered something it knew iran would reject.

Russia will offer Mig-31 once Iran can build something in the same ballpark. That is how Russia operates.
 

EvilWesteners

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Because S-400 is a defensive asset used to defend ones territory. You cant use an S-400 to bomb Saudi Arabia or fire upon US ships in the PG.

Can’t believe you are comparing the two. And also Russia only offered the S-400 knowing Iran didn’t need it anymore with its Bavar system. So it offered something it knew iran would reject.

Russia will offer Mig-31 once Iran can build something in the same ballpark. That is how Russia operates.
Well said TheImmortal.

I heard the VERY same words come out of a member of parliament in UK, many years ago. There is a pub downstairs in House of Commons, and by noon MPs are plastered out of their heads, some even facing down on the ground (I swear I saw it many times), but when drunk they tell you what they think. Many times I heard them say that ..."Soviets reacts to what you can do, and how far you can go, they adapt their behavior based on that, not an ideological or calculated points of economics and gain". I use to presentations on technology that MOD was working on with RR to the MPs, for about 4 months (many years ago).

If Iran could build a upgraded F-14 with an equivalent Ibiza-E radar, with AL21 engines, the Russians would them sell Iran a Mig31 with an Ibiza-M radar and a powerful turbofan. You are very correct in the way you assess the Russian way of thinking.

Russians see other countries as FreNemies (not quite friends, and not quite enemies).
 

EvilWesteners

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Russia won’t even supply MIG-31’s to Iran.

Neither Russia nor China want to supply advanced jets. They don’t want to deal with the headache.
Indeed.

But Iran CAN coerce them gently.

It may be hard to believe, but there was a time around 1977-1984 when Iran had some of the smartest people in politics (like Behashtee who had been educated in Germany). Those guys were really sharp and much smarter than people at the same level in U.S. and Europe - and certainly around middle east.

Current Iranian government needs to let the best come to top and elevate the country. They have to. They have no choice. Sooner, or later.

Iran can also start trading with Gold.

Diversify Iran's leadership with younger blood and get more youth involvement.

Promote women businesses. That would not ruffle too many feathers in the male dominated country.

Have Max Blumenthal "management of savagery" book translated and published for free in Farsi and Arabic, and promoted to the youth.

Have New American Century translated and published for free in Farsi and Arabic, and promoted to the youth.

Have youth magazine called "17", where they get articles in English printed on LEFT side and the Farsi translation on the RIGHT side. These articles should included all the Conservative articles demonizing and villainizing of Iran and Arabs and Central and South Americans.

There is so much Iran gov can do BUT they are out of creativity juice, they need to get the youth take over some communication and narrative.
I think catatonic might be a better description of the current state of the air force,sadly.
Iran airforce leadership has not been a visionary for decades. It needs another Gen. Khatami. But it doesn't. He knew how politics is needed and can be massaged for the sake of better utilized, funded, and resourced for the air force.
 
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Menschmaschine

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Because S-400 is a defensive asset used to defend ones territory. You cant use an S-400 to bomb Saudi Arabia or fire upon US ships in the PG.

Can’t believe you are comparing the two. And also Russia only offered the S-400 knowing Iran didn’t need it anymore with its Bavar system. So it offered something it knew iran would reject.

Russia will offer Mig-31 once Iran can build something in the same ballpark. That is how Russia operates.
Since we have no insider information, we can only speculate. However, it is reasonable to assume that if the Iranian Government would have requested an arms purchase and the Russian side had denied it, some kind of news about it would have leaked out. The apparent complete lack of activity seems to indicate that the current Iranian Government is simply not interested in buying fighters.
 

Menschmaschine

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Well said TheImmortal.

I heard the VERY same words come out of a member of parliament in UK, many years ago. There is a pub downstairs in House of Commons, and by noon MPs are plastered out of their heads, some even facing down on the ground (I swear I saw it many times), but when drunk they tell you what they think. Many times I heard them say that ..."Soviets reacts to what you can do, and how far you can go, they adapt their behavior based on that, not an ideological or calculated points of economics and gain". I use to presentations on technology that MOD was working on with RR to the MPs, for about 4 months (many years ago).

If Iran could build a upgraded F-14 with an equivalent Ibiza-E radar, with AL21 engines, the Russians would them sell Iran a Mig31 with an Ibiza-M radar and a powerful turbofan. You are very correct in the way you assess the Russian way of thinking.

Russians see other countries as FreNemies (not quite friends, and not quite enemies).
Sorry, but this does not make sense. Russia has absolutely no problems to sell fighters and other arms to about everyone. The reason that this was not the case for Iran is, of course, US pressure. But it is reasonable to assume that given the massively ramped up US hostility against Russia the impetus to succumb to such pressure is now very much reduced.
 

MMCM

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Did the ex-Iraqi mirage F-1s that fled to Iran back in 1991, come equipped with the Remora ECM pods? and if they're still in operational service with the current IRIAF F1 fleet?
 

TheImmortal

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Russia has absolutely no problems to sell fighters and other arms to about everyone.
Are you this out of the loop regarding geopolitics? The more I read your posts the more it sounds like you just argue for sake of arguing and are quite out of touch with reality.

The user @EvilWesteners who you disagreed with in the above post actually has worked on jet engines and significant military projects around the world and has extensive knowledge regarding state of Iranian affairs.

Russia sells to banana countries that pose zero threat to world powers or they sell to US allies (Turkey, PG Arabs, Asian countries) in hopes of
Getting more lucrative arm sales from them or pulling them away from Us orbit. Meaning weapons are just a means of coercion.

Iran goes against directly against Western interests and maybe is the only country in the world that goes so much against Western interest followed by China. Thus the US (and Israel) have a real interest in preventing the Iranian war machine from improving.

That is why UAE can get F-35 and Algeria can get SU-35 while Iran cannot even get a degraded SU-27 from Russia.

Banana countries have many fancy toys but pose zero threat to the king makers. Learn that and you will begin to better understand geopolitics.
 

Blue In Green

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Are you this out of the loop regarding geopolitics? The more I read your posts the more it sounds like you just argue for sake of arguing and are quite out of touch with reality.

The user @EvilWesteners who you disagreed with in the above post actually has worked on jet engines and significant military projects around the world and has extensive knowledge regarding state of Iranian affairs.

Russia sells to banana countries that pose zero threat to world powers or they sell to US allies (Turkey, PG Arabs, Asian countries) in hopes of
Getting more lucrative arm sales from them or pulling them away from Us orbit. Meaning weapons are just a means of coercion.

Iran goes against directly against Western interests and maybe is the only country in the world that goes so much against Western interest followed by China. Thus the US (and Israel) have a real interest in preventing the Iranian war machine from improving.

That is why UAE can get F-35 and Algeria can get SU-35 while Iran cannot even get a degraded SU-27 from Russia.

Banana countries have many fancy toys but pose zero threat to the king makers. Learn that and you will begin to better understand geopolitics.
Have you ever wondered why so many here put so much blind faith into Russia's supposed "Iranian friendship" when all indications on the ground point to the opposite? I mean supporting U.N. sanctions and refusing to sell necessary military equipment is enough to put a rather resolute stop on any sort of notion that the Russian Federation is Iran's "best pal" or whatever, or even looking out for Iranian interests.

It never fails to amaze me and it reeks of desperation/ignorance in geopolitics from those still thinking such things.
 
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Menschmaschine

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Are you this out of the loop regarding geopolitics? The more I read your posts the more it sounds like you just argue for sake of arguing and are quite out of touch with reality.

The user @EvilWesteners who you disagreed with in the above post actually has worked on jet engines and significant military projects around the world and has extensive knowledge regarding state of Iranian affairs.

Russia sells to banana countries that pose zero threat to world powers or they sell to US allies (Turkey, PG Arabs, Asian countries) in hopes of
Getting more lucrative arm sales from them or pulling them away from Us orbit. Meaning weapons are just a means of coercion.

Iran goes against directly against Western interests and maybe is the only country in the world that goes so much against Western interest followed by China. Thus the US (and Israel) have a real interest in preventing the Iranian war machine from improving.

That is why UAE can get F-35 and Algeria can get SU-35 while Iran cannot even get a degraded SU-27 from Russia.

Banana countries have many fancy toys but pose zero threat to the king makers. Learn that and you will begin to better understand geopolitics.
Well, it seems that it is you that likes to argue for the sake of it since most of what you write does not really contradict my assertions. Let's go over my answers one more time:

Since we have no insider information, we can only speculate. However, it is reasonable to assume that if the Iranian Government would have requested an arms purchase and the Russian side had denied it, some kind of news about it would have leaked out. The apparent complete lack of activity seems to indicate that the current Iranian Government is simply not interested in buying fighters.
Russia has absolutely no problems to sell fighters and other arms to about everyone. The reason that this was not the case for Iran is, of course, US pressure. But it is reasonable to assume that given the massively ramped up US hostility against Russia the impetus to succumb to such pressure is now very much reduced.
I only say that the situation has changed since the last time that Russia has squashed arms deals with Iran. I don't deny that the abuse that the US dishes out against Russia might still not be enough to dissuade the Russian government from pandering to the US by refusing fighter sales. But we won't know until the Iranian government actually tries to place an order, something, that apparently has not happened (yet?).
 

AmirPatriot

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It is excessively pessimistic to say that Russia would not sell arms to Iran if a large enough order came through. The economic benefits of that would outweigh anything the west is willing to do to dissuade a sale.

Remember; arms sales not only bring in huge export revenues, but they also increase the production run and therefore decrease the cost-per-unit of each piece of equipment. Hence Russia's accommodation of India in the T-50/FGFA development which fell through. Another avenue that Iran has to look into.
 

TheImmortal

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It is excessively pessimistic to say that Russia would not sell arms to Iran if a large enough order came through. The economic benefits of that would outweigh anything the west is willing to do to dissuade a sale.

Remember; arms sales not only bring in huge export revenues, but they also increase the production run and therefore decrease the cost-per-unit of each piece of equipment. Hence Russia's accommodation of India in the T-50/FGFA development which fell through. Another avenue that Iran has to look into.
This is a massive fallacy and goes against past precedent. Quite frankly it’s disappointing talk from such an knowledable member of the forum.

There is no Iranian arms contract worth pissing off the Israelis and US. Remember that they have pressure points on sensitive Russian interests as well. For years they dangled supposed “Iranian missile interceptors” in Europe as negotiating tactic to prevent Russian from helping Iran.

Past evidence is quite clear.....since 1990’s many “large” contracts were placed with a cash strapped and collapsed post Soviet Russia and most got cancelled. So when Russia was most desperate for cash they still screwed Iran.

Things are so bad that Iran did not trust Russia to refurbish its Kilo subs, it secretly feared that Russia (who was asking for the refurbishment to be done in Russia) would never return the subs back. It was one of the reasons Iran decided to do it themselves.

So again the “trust me this time is different bro”excuse is tired and worn out. A $5B or $10B contract won’t make Russia risk geopolitical fall out that could cost it 20,50, 100B in the long run. Billions don’t make Russians get out of bed, maybe Iranians, but not the Russians.

And the T-50 project only proves my point. India complained that Russia went against contract terms. Didn’t share ToT, repeatedly kept India in the dark, and kept raising the costs on India to fund the project. India eventually left out of frustration. That example is a prime reason where India that has ZERO problems getting weapons was still screwed by over by Russia.

Now imagine if Iran was involved in that? And that’s what your advocating? Wow seems like Shafagh project is a distant memory.

Relying on Russia for big ticket offensive items is what a fool would do.
 

Tai Hai Chen

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That’s some serious revisionist history you believe in. China started with “nothing”? Lol most of your fighters are copied Soviet fighters some built with ToT, some built under license, and some built by yourselves.
Nothing compared to what Iran got. F-14A in the 70s. MiG-29A in the 90s. The most China got was MiG-21 in the 60s when Russia and China became enemies and China had to make everything itself.
 

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