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TheImmortal

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just a clarification, the above written by the user "Mr Iran Eye" specifically indicates:

"Kowsar fighter plane
As the Minister of Defense had planned, we will deliver at least three more Kowsar fighter jets to the Air Force during the first quarter of the current [Iranian] year [from here June 22] ”, asserted Brigadier General Khajehfard"


therefore if, as they say, it has reached mass production, the Kowsar delivered in a year, four quarters, theoretically it could be 12, which would already be an excellent result having to make every component including the engines in Iran.
Kowsar is on track to produce as many “test beds” as other F-5 derivative projects dating back to Azkharash in late 1990’s which is 1-2 squadrons.

No indications that Kowsar is anything more than a test bed project to produce a limited amount (<36 fighters). And I wouldn’t be surprised if many of the airframes are re-used F-5’s similar to Karrar being a T-72 modernization project.

It’s clear from the referenced information that Iran’s declared (keyword declared) aerospace projects are suffering lack of funds. Hopefully the more serious projects (heavier engine and heavy fighter design) are progressing more fruitfully than F-313, Kowsar, and Yasir.
 

sahureka2

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Kowsar is on track to produce as many “test beds” as other F-5 derivative projects dating back to Azkharash in late 1990’s which is 1-2 squadrons.

No indications that Kowsar is anything more than a test bed project to produce a limited amount (<36 fighters). And I wouldn’t be surprised if many of the airframes are re-used F-5’s similar to Karrar being a T-72 modernization project.

It’s clear from the referenced information that Iran’s declared (keyword declared) aerospace projects are suffering lack of funds. Hopefully the more serious projects (heavier engine and heavy fighter design) are progressing more fruitfully than F-313, Kowsar, and Yasir.
I'm not reviewing the quality of the Kowsar, I just wanted to point out the written words.
Furthermore, if a certain model of aircraft is produced in a limited total number of specimens, they can be defined as prototopic production or test bench, if, as Mr. Theimmortal, will reach 36 copies, the definition of production changes and you can write "mass production".
however 36 newly produced Kowsar also, as you write, recycling old F-5s, which in any case I am sure that they would be only some components of them and carefully tested and regenerated, would already be a considerable achievement both for the Iranian aviation industry and for the air force.
These additional 3 Kowsar will likely be part of those that were visible on the production line in a video from the recent past, so they will be two-seaters, but they also announced a single-seater version, and I'm curious to see if it will be extrapolated from the single-seater F-5 or whether to make the car they will use, adapting the same fuselage as the two-seater Kowsar.
They could thus have additional space to use, for example also increase the capacities of the internal fuel tanks.
 

aryobarzan

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I'm not reviewing the quality of the Kowsar, I just wanted to point out the written words.
Furthermore, if a certain model of aircraft is produced in a limited total number of specimens, they can be defined as prototopic production or test bench, if, as Mr. Theimmortal, will reach 36 copies, the definition of production changes and you can write "mass production".
however 36 newly produced Kowsar also, as you write, recycling old F-5s, which in any case I am sure that they would be only some components of them and carefully tested and regenerated, would already be a considerable achievement both for the Iranian aviation industry and for the air force.
These additional 3 Kowsar will likely be part of those that were visible on the production line in a video from the recent past, so they will be two-seaters, but they also announced a single-seater version, and I'm curious to see if it will be extrapolated from the single-seater F-5 or whether to make the car they will use, adapting the same fuselage as the two-seater Kowsar.
They could thus have additional space to use, for example also increase the capacities of the internal fuel tanks.
I do not know why no one talks about potential of export of Kowsar ...considering that price of trainer/fighter aircraft is around $30 million (Russian yak 130 )...this aircraft at around $10 million will be so attractive as a trainer/fighter. Am I missing something here...a small export order for a country such as Iraq can do wonders to a production line..

I found this interesting.. Prices are astronomical..add to them the spare parts, maintenance ..midlife upgrade etc...who can afford these prices..
 
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sahureka2

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I do not know why no one talks about potential of export of Kowsar ...considering that price of trainer/fighter aircraft is around $30 million (Russian yak 130 )...this aircraft at around $10 million will be so attractive as a trainer/fighter. Am I missing something here...a small export order for a country such as Iraq can do wonders to a production line..

I found this interesting.. Prices are astronomical..add to them the spare parts, maintenance ..midlife upgrade etc...who can afford these prices..
Syria could also be interested in the Kowsar both single-seater and two-seater, possibly to replace the now old and widely used Mig-21 and Mig-21UB.
And .... the trainer Yasin in the future as a replacement for the L-39 Albatros
 

WudangMaster

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I do not know why no one talks about potential of export of Kowsar
Syria could also be interested in the Kowsar both single-seater and two-seater, possibly to replace the now old and widely used Mig-21 and Mig-21UB.
And .... the trainer Yasin in the future as a replacement for the L-39 Albatros
I think the issue is the capacity for building these at industrial level as opposed to workshop level. The question for me is can Iran build more aircraft per year and just building enough to meet the limited orders from IRIAF or is this the maximum capacity of the number of units per year it can produce, regardless of if IRIAF want more.
 

aryobarzan

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I think the issue is the capacity for building these at industrial level as opposed to workshop level. The question for me is can Iran build more aircraft per year and just building enough to meet the limited orders from IRIAF or is this the maximum capacity of the number of units per year it can produce, regardless of if IRIAF want more.
If they get an outside order they can justify the expense to ramp up the production which means buying and retooling...for military production ramp up you always need advanced booked orders...getting the machinery is not a big issue when funds are there even for case of Iran.
 

TheImmortal

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I do not know why no one talks about potential of export of Kowsar ...considering that price of trainer/fighter aircraft is around $30 million (Russian yak 130 )...this aircraft at around $10 million will be so attractive as a trainer/fighter. Am I missing something here...a small export order for a country such as Iraq can do wonders to a production line..
Because countries either integrate their military with Western products (US/European fighters) or Eastern products (Russian or Chinese knock off of Russian).

Thus the Kowsar just isn’t viable in the export market unless you are trying to sell it to Syria or maybe Iraq (firmly in Western orbit of arms dealing).

Even within Iran, Kowsar hasn’t been that warmly received. Just a few orders here and there just like Saeghe 1 & 2 and other F-5 derivative projects before it.

If they get an outside order they can justify the expense to ramp up the production which means buying and retooling...for military production ramp up you always need advanced booked orders...getting the machinery is not a big issue when funds are there even for case of Iran.
How is Syria, a bankrupt country that already owes Iran billions gonna pay for fighter jets?

And mass production of 200+ aircraft will make sense getting the supply chain/warehouses/engineer& worker pool to build such an aircraft, but neither Iraq nor Syria will be buying in large numbers.

You guys simply overestimate the conservative nature of Iranian Air Force. They have never taken a gamble on a domestic aerospace project and always play it conservatively. They refuse to fund F-313.

I wouldn’t waste any hope on these projects and wait for further information on medium and heavy engines being developed and their respective fighter designs.
 

sanel1412

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Kowsar trio ,at the end of first video for moment one MFDs can be seen,map loaded as I can see...seems these have different cocpit without HUD,probably second seat project everything on these MFDs,including HUD
 

Menschmaschine

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I'm not reviewing the quality of the Kowsar, I just wanted to point out the written words.
Furthermore, if a certain model of aircraft is produced in a limited total number of specimens, they can be defined as prototopic production or test bench, if, as Mr. Theimmortal, will reach 36 copies, the definition of production changes and you can write "mass production".
however 36 newly produced Kowsar also, as you write, recycling old F-5s, which in any case I am sure that they would be only some components of them and carefully tested and regenerated, would already be a considerable achievement both for the Iranian aviation industry and for the air force.
These additional 3 Kowsar will likely be part of those that were visible on the production line in a video from the recent past, so they will be two-seaters, but they also announced a single-seater version, and I'm curious to see if it will be extrapolated from the single-seater F-5 or whether to make the car they will use, adapting the same fuselage as the two-seater Kowsar.
They could thus have additional space to use, for example also increase the capacities of the internal fuel tanks.
I think rebuilding existing F-5 to Kowsar is a very good use of resources. Iran gets a fully indigenized (including engines) advanced supersonic jet trainer which still can be used as a second line fighter/ground attack aircraft in wartime. I however don't think that a major production run of all new Kowsar aircraft would make sense.

As for new aircraft, I am somewhat puzzled that I don't see any mention of the MiG 31, which Iran after all did try to acquire several times in the past. A MiG 31 upgraded to BSM standard would still be an extremely potent asset, and at moderate cost if the Russian government agrees to transfer stored aircraft for free or a nominal price. A contract for upgrade of "more than 50" MiG 31 did run to $630 million (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014...ghter-force-to-get-630-million-upgrade-a41795), so would be about $15 million apiece.
 

WudangMaster

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Kowsar trio ,at the end of first video for moment one MFDs can be seen,map loaded as I can see...seems these have different cocpit without HUD,probably second seat project everything on these MFDs,including HUD
I know there isn't enough money for it, but I would really love to see a couple of squadrons of Kowsars as an aerobatics team performing like the Swifts of the Russian air Force or Blue Angels or others. Whatever limitations the aircraft might have for modern long range a2a warfare, the platform seems amongst the best for tight maneuvering and the kind of actions that dazzle audiences at air shows. I remember Yaghoot from the old Iran defence .net forum who was an IRIAF F-5 pilot in the 1990s discussing how agile the plane was and its nimbleness was an asset during the imposed war.
 

TheImmortal

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I think rebuilding existing F-5 to Kowsar is a very good use of resources. Iran gets a fully indigenized (including engines) advanced supersonic jet trainer which still can be used as a second line fighter/ground attack aircraft in wartime. I however don't think that a major production run of all new Kowsar aircraft would make sense.

As for new aircraft, I am somewhat puzzled that I don't see any mention of the MiG 31, which Iran after all did try to acquire several times in the past. A MiG 31 upgraded to BSM standard would still be an extremely potent asset, and at moderate cost if the Russian government agrees to transfer stored aircraft for free or a nominal price. A contract for upgrade of "more than 50" MiG 31 did run to $630 million (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014...ghter-force-to-get-630-million-upgrade-a41795), so would be about $15 million apiece.
Russia won’t even supply MIG-31’s to Iran.

Neither Russia nor China want to supply advanced jets. They don’t want to deal with the headache.
 

Menschmaschine

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Russia won’t even supply MIG-31’s to Iran.

Neither Russia nor China want to supply advanced jets. They don’t want to deal with the headache.
How do you know? Russian officials have said that they are ready to sell the S-400 air defence system. so I don't see why fighter aircraft would be a problem. So far it seems that the lack of action is because Iran is not ordering.
 

Hack-Hook

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How do you know? Russian officials have said that they are ready to sell the S-400 air defence system. so I don't see why fighter aircraft would be a problem. So far it seems that the lack of action is because Iran is not ordering.
they offered S-400 after we fielded Bavar not before that . we build a new aircraft comparable to the airplanes they have and they gladly sell us that airplane
 

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