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TheImmortal

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Like I said before -- you brought on old news.

The Ho-229 had only ONE flight in 1944 and that flight was as a GLIDER. So explain to us all how can that make the aircraft a true low radar observable platform? What Reimar wanted is not the same thing as what the aircraft could do. I want to fly, but does that mean I can simply flap my arms and fly?

In order to be low radar observable, you need a radar to VERIFY that your design is actually low radar observable. The US did not need the Horten Brothers to tell them that. When Northrop FIRST flew his flying wing in 1942, there was nothing 'stealthy' about the N-9MB, especially with the propellers. So how did the Horten Brothers proved that with ONLY ONE FLIGHT?

The F-117 looks nothing like the Ho-229. So explain to us all how does the F-117 relates to the Ho-229?

If you argued that the B-2 came from the Ho-229, then provide the TECHNICAL details. Flight controls? I doubt the Nazis had fly-by-wire back in WW II. The Ho-229 had vertical stabs but the B-2 has none, so how does that make the B-2 came from the Ho-229? The Ho-229 was made out of wood, so are you going to tell US the B-2 was constructed out of the same?

What Reimar Horten said back in WW ii cannot be the basis for what was done today, especially when there is a chasm of technical superiority between then and now. Are you going to credit Jules Verne as being the inventor of the submarine because he wrote 10,000 Leagues Under The Sea? Or Verne being the 'father' of rocketry because he wrote From The Earth To The Moon? We gave the Chinese credit for gunpowder because they actually made the mixture go 'Boom'.

Like it or not, true credit belongs to those who make the TECHNICAL successes.


Really? So explain to us -- other than the flying wing -- how does the B-2 have similarities to the Ho-229?

You are a zealot for Iran. I am a zealot for the US. I was on the F-111 (Cold War) then F-16 (Desert Storm). How about you? I know what hard terrain following (TF) in the F-111 and 9g in the F-16 feels like. And you? The silent readers out there are not interested in how much you want to discredit US. They want to see who has the better arguments supported by hard evidence and sound logic. You failed on both counts.
While the B-2 does not share many similarities with the original Nazi flying wing design (and I would hope several decades of difference between the 2 projects that it wouldn’t), the entire US arms program from 1950-1980’s was built on the backs of Nazi scientists and technological transfer. The space program was also boosted by Nazi scientists and their know how and ideas at the time.

So calling US inventions back then “American” is only technically factual. It would be like Iran capturing 1000 US weapons experts and engineers and then for next 25 years saying everything they built was Iranian and Iranian ingenuity. Technically true, but realistically completely false.

I have no doubt that US would have eventually built B-2 and other flying wing designs without Nazi aid, just as I have no doubt that if Nazi Germany won the war it would have built its version of B-2 much sooner than US would have.

Thus it’s important to not overlook the immense help that US got from Nazi scientists.
 

Oldman1

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Concept of Stealth was first developed by the Germans in WWII. If I remember correctly a first German made stealth aircraft was made of wood in order not to reflect the early radars (I have seen a photo of it). Americans stole the aircraft and moved it to the US just like what they did to German rockets and German scientists... All US rocket and Stealth was German tech origin..So not hard to imagine that soon countries like Iran and China will be ahead of US in some fields...US is still far ahead on space (Mars rover) . A big part of any development is the availability of $$$ funds and seems like US can print $$$ at will while every other nation has to work for their $$$ (have not figured that out yet..lol)
Common misconception, there were wing design aircraft in the U.S. besides what the Germans were making.

RoleFlying wing
National originUnited States
ManufacturerNorthrop Corporation
DesignerJack Northrop
First flight3 July 1940
Retired1945
StatusExperimental
Number built1
Developed fromNorthrop N-1
VariantsNorthrop N-9M

So if first flight was in 1940. Then when did Horten Ho 299 flew?



RoleFighter/bomber
ManufacturerGothaer Waggonfabrik
DesignerHorten brothers
First flight1 March 1944 (glider)
Primary userLuftwaffe
Number built3
Developed intoGotha Go P.60
History is written by the "victors"...All I said was to tell a bit of "real history" as it happened...Germans are the father of many military technologies. Americans stole these technologies and improved upon them... Chinese also invented many European technologies related to the war (crossbow, machine gun ..the famous gun powder..etc)..

The True inventor nations of these technologies will eventually re-write the history and humanity will finally have a "history" written not by the victors but by the original inventors...I am sorry that our American member was upset about his mindset getting disturbed,,it happen when our core belief turn out not to be true.
Next thing you know, you be claiming Germans invented the submarine and our submarine design was based on war loot after defeating them.
 

aryobarzan

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Common misconception, there were wing design aircraft in the U.S. besides what the Germans were making.

RoleFlying wing
National originUnited States
ManufacturerNorthrop Corporation
DesignerJack Northrop
First flight3 July 1940
Retired1945
StatusExperimental
Number built1
Developed fromNorthrop N-1
VariantsNorthrop N-9M

So if first flight was in 1940. Then when did Horten Ho 299 flew?



RoleFighter/bomber
ManufacturerGothaer Waggonfabrik
DesignerHorten brothers
First flight1 March 1944 (glider)
Primary userLuftwaffe
Number built3
Developed intoGotha Go P.60


Next thing you know, you be claiming Germans invented the submarine and our submarine design was based on war loot after defeating them.
lol....I Know about "Ironclad" sub during your civil war so no disagreement there. My respect to those 6 people who did the job and never returned home.
 

sha ah

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No way. The Shahed-129 for example has a stated ferry range of 3400 KM without any payload. With a full payload 1700 KM. Depending on the mission, most UAVs can carry less or more payload. The more payload, the less range.

However many believe that with radio communication the likely range is no more than 200-400. Some western pundits even doubt 200 KM. The new Shahed uses satellite communication, maybe Chinese/Russian ? or it intermittently uses American satellites to help it figure out where it is.

Iranian UAVs also use terrain recognition software to figure out where they are. They can be pre-programmed to hit a target and return to base. Like the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding. Just look at the Aramco strikes.

can it fly this distance with full payload?
 

sha ah

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In this day and age most of the emphasis is placed on 5th generation, stealth fighter jets like the F-35.

In my opinion yes they are vital as frontline fighters, however every airforce also requires a cheaper and more affordable conventional fighter jet as an alternative to make up the bulk of an airforce. Something that an airforce can essentially utilize as a workhorse.

Basically for leading military powers, cutting edge technology like cruise missiles, stealth UAVs and 5th generation fighter jets lead the way on the frontlines, clearing the skies, establishing air dominance.

Afterwards there is no need to continually use extremely expensive 5th gen fighter jets to pound enemy positions. Once the skies are clear and air defenses have been effectively suppressed, any conventional, non stealth fighter jet and cheaper UAVs can easily do the job for pennies on the dollar.

The low cost of such assets also allows an airforce to easily decimate the enemy by continually saturating the air as we've seen in recent low intensity conflicts (Libya/Caucasus etc) Usually losing a fighter jet worth tens of millions and a pilot that took years and years to train, would greatly deter an enemy from continuing the campaign without hesitation. However with UAV's, there is no pilot or massive cost associated. This allows a military to succeed in situations where normally they would be forced to hesitate.

Of course 5th generation fighter jets or fighter jets in general have an advantage in that they can strike hostile air targets and use counter measures to avoid being shot down. However drone technology is already moving in that direction. In the near future the skies over battlefields will be filled with stealth UAVs that are highly maneuverable. These will be able to automatically avoid being shot down by using counter measures, for example by deploying flares, jamming technology, out maneuvering an incoming missile, etc At the same time they will able to hit ground and air targets with utmost precision.

Considering all of the above, I truly believe that Iran choosing to reverse engineer and modernize the F-5 platform is a great investment. They're easy to maintain, cheap to build, 4 of them can be transported in a 747 and with modern avionics and radar they are extremely underrated. The fact that Iran has also invested heavily in drone technology has already paid off with dividends, as we saw when against all odds, the Aramco facility was successfully targeted with pin point precision.

aaaa.jpg


Above picture is from the following article. Notice the aircraft on the left and then right. Look carefully and you'll see one is a UAV, one is piloted. Interesting concept.

Canada wants to build a multirole, non-stealth, tactical aircraft


F-35 turns out to be a complete FAILURE


1.7 trillion spent on the F-35


Four F-5s fit into a 747 with room to spare

 
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TheImmortal

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They don't have any new plan , nor any will to change the situation ...
Explain how to make a viable plan when you:

A) don’t have necessary aircraft engines

B) cannot buy aircraft from aboard (US pressure)

C) Have limited cash on hand (due to once in a century pandemic while being under the most severe economic sanctions any country has endured since post WWI Germany.)

???Use your brain next time.

To address my points above, currently Iran:

A) has several jet engines in prototype testing phase

B) has begun preliminary negotiations with Russia on purchasing newer fighter jets and ToT

C) With Pandemic winding down, shifting to petrochemical product revenue instead of crude oil, and potential sanctions relief, Iran should receive more funding to go to more “luxury” projects such as rebuilding airforce.

Iran’s helicopter force is one of the most capable and diverse in the Middle East. The only thing they need is a heavy attack chopper. But attack helicopters are luxury assets that will be used in defense of land invasion, thus pouring funds into this sector gets very little benefit in deterrence.

I would argue in the days of heavy Male UAV, why would Iran need more attack helicopters?
 

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