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Philosopher

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I hope you are right.....we all hope you are right.....about the "perception"... it matters to those who do not understand technology and that includes the dumb as* politicians that start the wars on "perception"..and then poor military people who know better have to fight that war for them.
Exactly, sadly we live in a reality where perception is what seems to rule the mind of most people and these masses tend to overwhelm voice of reason. So you do have to learn this perception game and how to manipulate it, it's just an integral part of human life. Good news about a powerful airforce is that it ticks both boxes.

Let us wait and see what plans they have for the airforce. The good news here is that as soon as the embargo was lifted, we quickly heard news of airforce deals, so this shows they are fully aware of the airforce's shortcomings. I remember the days when we lamented Iran's air defence and today we're so impressed by it. I look forward to the day this same feeling is extended to the airforce.
 

Shawnee

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In 1980s, several young researchers were working in a field of Iranian Ground Forces making UAVs.

They were ignored or mocked by the staff and generals there:
They were seen as “Hobbyists making toy planes.”

It even got worse. The group were trying to catch a flying UAV with a net. Somebody underestimated the power of the UAV and chahar angoshtesh ghat shod vaghti uav ro gereft.

It turned into a fiasco.

Every success starts with disappointments and fiasco.
 
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Mr Iran Eye

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Second Yasin advanced trainer built by Iranian specialists


An expert on West Asian issues said that "in recent exercises the Iranian armed forces have demonstrated their offensive power."

Hossein Kan'ani Moqadam, Iranian expert on West Asian affairs alluding to recent maneuvers organized by the country's armed forces in the central desert noted that “recent exercises by the army of the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) have shown that all of our country's armed forces are in full operational coordination and in offensive power. "


"We saw that during these exercises which took place just a few days ago, the fictitious enemy's military base was targeted by ballistic missiles and drones, and the anti-missile shield of this base was destroyed. . And in the exercise that followed, the Iranian armed forces seized the same base preventing enemy forces from reaching the base from air and sea, which shows precisely that the armed forces of the Islamic Republic of 'Iran are capable of destroying and storming enemy military bases in unprecedented coordination,' the Iranian expert continued.

According to the latter, the message of these exercises, which were carried out against the actions and adventurisms of Trump in the last days of his political life, was to tell the whole world that "the Islamic Republic of Iran has excellent offensive power and defensive, and that these adventurous threats and actions will not follow. "

This series of exercises has just been completed as Iran’s air combat sector grows stronger.


The Iranian Defense Minister came to the premises of the Aviation Industry Organization and visited the construction stages of the second Yasin advanced training jet.

Iranian Defense Minister Brigadier General Amir Hatami stressed the need for effective support to the air fleet of the Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic and expressed the hope that by successfully building prototypes and qu 'By launching the production line of aircraft, effective steps would be taken in the direction of the fleet of advanced training aircraft "Yasin".

Referring to former US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's remarks regarding new sanctions against seven entities linked to Iranian shipping and transportation lines, including the Iranian aviation industry, Brigadier General Hatami said: “Every time as enemies have tried to impose more limited conditions on us, our industries have evolved into greater self-sufficiency and greater prosperity.


Yasin is a modern Iranian trainer that was unveiled on October 17, 2019. The nationally-made trainer made its first official flight over "Shahid Nojeh" base. The length of this plane is 12 meters and its height is 4 meters.

This aircraft was designed and built by specialists of the Aircraft Industry Organization of the Armed Forces with the participation of the Air Force of the Islamic Republic. It is to be used as an advanced trainer in the training process of the nation's fighter pilots.

Iran, with the design and construction of this advanced trainer, is among the few countries with aviation technology.
 

Philosopher

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So with the recent developments we've seen regarding Iran's quantum systems we can start to speculate regarding the airforce. These quantum systems seem to potentially change the military scene in two major ways if they arrive. One is the development of quantum radars which will nullify current "stealthy" platforms meaning going forward, emphasis will be mostly on speed and manoeuvrability when designing combat air platforms.

The second is this un-hackable communications. This means you can create remotely piloted UCAVs. The UCAV will deliver all the surrounding information giving the pilot on the ground the situation awareness as if they were sitting in the platform but without experiencing the associated g forces. You will also add A.I to these UCAVS to further bolster them.

So if (big if) these quantum systems deliver in the way we think, then it seems the future will indeed be UCAVs. I believe UCAVS will in the near future become hypersonic systems powered by scramjet hybrid systems which they themselves carry ramjet/scramjet air to air missiles. Now imagine swarms of such a systems. I obviously have no access to classified information in Iran's quantum projects, but if I did and they are indeed confident they could deliver the two above scenarios, then the airforce needs to work like there is no tomorrow to first develop heavy supersonic UCAV and then beyond. This will not only allow Iran to get parity with its foes in the air domain, but surpass them.
 

Arminkh

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So with the recent developments we've seen regarding Iran's quantum systems we can start to speculate regarding the airforce. These quantum systems seem to potentially change the military scene in two major ways if they arrive. One is the development of quantum radars which will nullify current "stealthy" platforms meaning going forward, emphasis will be mostly on speed and manoeuvrability when designing combat air platforms.

The second is this un-hackable communications. This means you can create remotely piloted UCAVs. The UCAV will deliver all the surrounding information giving the pilot on the ground the situation awareness as if they were sitting in the platform but without experiencing the associated g forces. You will also add A.I to these UCAVS to further bolster them.

So if (big if) these quantum systems deliver in the way we think, then it seems the future will indeed be UCAVs. I believe UCAVS will in the near future become hypersonic systems powered by scramjet hybrid systems which they themselves carry ramjet/scramjet air to air missiles. Now imagine swarms of such a systems. I obviously have no access to classified information in Iran's quantum projects, but if I did and they are indeed confident they could deliver the two above scenarios, then the airforce needs to work like there is no tomorrow to first develop heavy supersonic UCAV and then beyond. This will not only allow Iran to get parity with its foes in the air domain, but surpass them.
 

VEVAK

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So with the recent developments we've seen regarding Iran's quantum systems we can start to speculate regarding the airforce. These quantum systems seem to potentially change the military scene in two major ways if they arrive. One is the development of quantum radars which will nullify current "stealthy" platforms meaning going forward, emphasis will be mostly on speed and manoeuvrability when designing combat air platforms.

The second is this un-hackable communications. This means you can create remotely piloted UCAVs. The UCAV will deliver all the surrounding information giving the pilot on the ground the situation awareness as if they were sitting in the platform but without experiencing the associated g forces. You will also add A.I to these UCAVS to further bolster them.

So if (big if) these quantum systems deliver in the way we think, then it seems the future will indeed be UCAVs. I believe UCAVS will in the near future become hypersonic systems powered by scramjet hybrid systems which they themselves carry ramjet/scramjet air to air missiles. Now imagine swarms of such a systems. I obviously have no access to classified information in Iran's quantum projects, but if I did and they are indeed confident they could deliver the two above scenarios, then the airforce needs to work like there is no tomorrow to first develop heavy supersonic UCAV and then beyond. This will not only allow Iran to get parity with its foes in the air domain, but surpass them.
Just because a new technology is being developed it doesn't mean all the old systems are going to suddenly go away! So we are a long way away from it being perfected and even longer from proliferation.

Just look at development and proliferation of lasers and rail guns. When where they developed, how many countries have them and in what quantities?

And if you stop using stealth what's to stop your enemy from using the old system against you?

Plus modern stealth designs automatically give a more aerodynamic and stable design to the Aircraft and sure long in the future the use of RAM coatings may be less required but for the foreseeable future weapons will have stealthier designs and maneuverability of stable stealth design will be compensated through thrust vectoring....
 

Sina-1

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Just because a new technology is being developed it doesn't mean all the old systems are going to suddenly go away! So we are a long way away from it being perfected and even longer from proliferation.

Just look at development and proliferation of lasers and rail guns. When where they developed, how many countries have them and in what quantities?

And if you stop using stealth what's to stop your enemy from using the old system against you?

Plus modern stealth designs automatically give a more aerodynamic and stable design to the Aircraft and sure long in the future the use of RAM coatings may be less required but for the foreseeable future weapons will have stealthier designs and maneuverability of stable stealth design will be compensated through thrust vectoring....
When (not if, because the concept is already proven, hence it is not a theory anymore!!!) the quantum key distribution technology is rolled in military communications then all manned aircraft will be sitting ducks. Swarms of thousand cheap UCAVs with SECURE datalink will be able to locate (because of multiple illumination angles) all Fighters, stealth or not.

sitting ducks! just like the ww1battlecruisers during ww2. It’s called DISRUPTIVE for a reason. It DISRUPTS current status quo completely!
 

Shawnee

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We have had many technology breakthroughs in the past centuries but none were like nuclear weapons, a complete game changer.

Just four year prior to the Hiroshima bombing, top US officials had little hope in nuclear weapon concept.

Jews likes Oppenheimer were not allowed to work on highly sensitive tech of that time such as radar and were sent to Manhattan project.

Who knows? Quantum communications and radar might be the next Manhattan project.
 
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Philosopher

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Just because a new technology is being developed it doesn't mean all the old systems are going to suddenly go away! So we are a long way away from it being perfected and even longer from proliferation.
I would not go as far as saying they would go away completely, but the question is how much would they still be prioritised.

And if you stop using stealth what's to stop your enemy from using the old system against you?

Plus modern stealth designs automatically give a more aerodynamic and stable design to the Aircraft and sure long in the future the use of RAM coatings may be less required but for the foreseeable future weapons will have stealthier designs and maneuverability of stable stealth design will be compensated through thrust vectoring....
The utility of stealth will be greatly diminished, if (and I emphasised the if) the quantum systems deliver in the way we think. Today, when nations design airframes, low RCS parameters are taken into account and you end to having to balance that with other needed qualities such as manoeuvrability (not including RAM here). This does not mean low RCS systems cannot be manoeuvrable, but clearly if you have the freedom to focus more on the latter, you'll get more of that. Now as we can see, there are nations today that are working on low RCS fighter jets and I don't see them stopping that and abandoning the projects midway. One reason for that is not many nations are working on these quantum technologies so it is not as if stealth will become totally useless immediately. It will be a while before such systems proliferate. In the case of Iran thing are different because our adversaries are on the forefront of such things.

All this hinges on whether Iran is confident these technologies can deliver the promises we're seeing, If they do, then I do not see the emphasise on manned stealthy platforms as much. More priority would need to be given to the fast, swarm UCAVs of the type I mentioned earlier. One thing is for sure, the IRGC will go down that route, its a matter of whether airforce will follow that path.
 

Shawnee

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China and Russia have claimed manufacturing of quantum radars and detection of F22 and F35 with it.

US definitely has the technology but will lose the most from it considering how much it spent on these stealth concepts.
 

Sina-1

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China and Russia have claimed manufacturing of quantum radars and detection of F22 and F35 with it.

US definitely has the technology but will lose the most from it considering how much it spent on these stealth concepts.
Exactly! It’s very much like the digital camera which was first invented by Kodak but the refused to pursue it because it would disrupt the sells of their negatives. Hence they turned an opportunity to an inevitable downfall. Legacy usually makes you take stupid decisions!
 

VEVAK

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I would not go as far as saying they would go away completely, but the question is how much would they still be prioritised.



The utility of stealth will be greatly diminished, if (and I emphasised the if) the quantum systems deliver in the way we think. Today, when nations design airframes, low RCS parameters are taken into account and you end to having to balance that with other needed qualities such as manoeuvrability (not including RAM here). This does not mean low RCS systems cannot be manoeuvrable, but clearly if you have the freedom to focus more on the latter, you'll get more of that. Now as we can see, there are nations today that are working on low RCS fighter jets and I don't see them stopping that and abandoning the projects midway. One reason for that is not many nations are working on these quantum technologies so it is not as if stealth will become totally useless immediately. It will be a while before such systems proliferate. In the case of Iran thing are different because our adversaries are on the forefront of such things.

All this hinges on whether Iran is confident these technologies can deliver the promises we're seeing, If they do, then I do not see the emphasise on manned stealthy platforms as much. More priority would need to be given to the fast, swarm UCAVs of the type I mentioned earlier. One thing is for sure, the IRGC will go down that route, its a matter of whether airforce will follow that path.

Again once you stop utilizing stealth your enemy will simply adapt to what you have or don't have! So for the foreseeable future stealth designs on Aircraft (Manned or not) will remain as the go to tech for incursions and I really don't see that changing anytime soon at least not within the next 3-4 decades.

As for manned fighter jets their role will no doubt be diminished which means the need for larger UCAV's capable of carrying heavier payloads will continue to increase to be used as a replacement.

And at the end of the day 99.9% of the tech you develop and infrastructure you put down for a manned fighter jet today will simply be transferred on to either a more advanced UCAV or other manned aircraft or even space crafts.
So not investing in a heavy manned fighter today because you are predicting less of a need for one even 2 decades down the line would be a foolish mistake and if anything Iran needs to double down on heavy manned fighters today because even if we develop commercial quantum com's, radars and computers even a decade from now we would still be well behind in terms of platforms that will be required to properly utilize them.

The requirement for mining and producing various alloys and composites isn't going away neither is the requirement for the development of advanced tool, machinery, a more capable work force,......
When (not if, because the concept is already proven, hence it is not a theory anymore!!!) the quantum key distribution technology is rolled in military communications then all manned aircraft will be sitting ducks. Swarms of thousand cheap UCAVs with SECURE datalink will be able to locate (because of multiple illumination angles) all Fighters, stealth or not.

sitting ducks! just like the ww1battlecruisers during ww2. It’s called DISRUPTIVE for a reason. It DISRUPTS current status quo completely!
It's not that simple! Yes the role of manned fighters will change but at the end of the day that swarm that your talking about still needs to reach them and catch them!
At what altitude and at what speeds and from what range is this swarm coming from?
 

Philosopher

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Again once you stop utilizing stealth your enemy will simply adapt to what you have or don't have!
Sure, but this is not something I have contested with. My point was that stealth will lose its utility to a great extend, not that quantum technology will nullify all other technologies.

So for the foreseeable future stealth designs on Aircraft (Manned or not) will remain as the go to tech for incursions and I really don't see that changing anytime soon at least not within the next 3-4 decades.
That depends on how quickly the quantum radars enter the scene and proliferate.

As for manned fighter jets their role will no doubt be diminished which means the need for larger UCAV's capable of carrying heavier payloads will continue to increase to be used as a replacement.
Agreed.

And at the end of the day 99.9% of the tech you develop and infrastructure you put down for a manned fighter jet today will simply be transferred on to either a more advanced UCAV or other manned aircraft or even space crafts.
So not investing in a heavy manned fighter today because you are predicting less of a need for one even 2 decades down the line would be a foolish mistake and if anything Iran needs to double down on heavy manned fighters today because even if we develop commercial quantum com's, radars and computers even a decade from now we would still be well behind in terms of platforms that will be required to properly utilize them.
As I said earlier, I do not see countries that are developing stealth fighters today abandoning those projects midway. My point was not Iran should be an exception to this, what I said is they need to start working on larger UCAVs heavily with the mindset that these will be the future. To my mind, speed will be the new stealth in the coming decade, so priority needs to be given to creating the necessary materials both airframe wise and engine to be able to deliver the needed hypersonic speeds. For example, the Americans are already developing unmanned SR-72. So one way or another, this complex field of engine and material technology is something Iran needs to properly crack. Now, the question of whether Iran will chose to also develop an manned system in this interim period. That is something they need to calculate themselves and I am sure they already have made their decision. If I had to guess, I would say I do not see the airforce fully abandoning manned platforms at this stage, mostly because of historical reasons and not due to technology.

The requirement for mining and producing various alloys and composites isn't going away neither is the requirement for the development of advanced tool, machinery, a more capable work force,......
Sure, but all of that can be developed in the process of creating heavy UCAVs. Matter of fact given the requirement for these hypersonic UCAVs, one could say the technology for term in terms of materials etc will be more even more demanding. Having said that, regardless of manned or unmanned, these technologies have to developed by Iran either way. There is no escaping it.
 

TheImmortal

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Quantum radars will not make stealth obsolete it will just help balance the battlefield.

First of all quantum radars will be expensive and likely power intensive and few in between. Thus they are going to be one of the first targets in any war.

So this thinking that Quantum computers will make 5th gen fighters obsolete is not correct. It will make them more detectable, but planes were also detectable in WW2 thru Vietnam that didn’t mean fighter jets became obsolete.
 

Blue In Green

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Quantum radars will not make stealth obsolete it will just help balance the battlefield.

First of all quantum radars will be expensive and likely power intensive and few in between. Thus they are going to be one of the first targets in any war.

So this thinking that Quantum computers will make 5th gen fighters obsolete is not correct. It will make them more detectable, but planes were also detectable in WW2 thru Vietnam that didn’t mean fighter jets became obsolete.
Sorry for asking but what exactly makes all these "quantum" things 'quantum' to begin with?

Is this just a much better form of computing that allows for better overall combat capabilities/detection?
 

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