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Mithridates

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Are you talking about a separate order from the Egyptian 30 aircraft? The last report of 50+ showed 30 of those (of which 10 have already been delivered) were EAF aircraft and the other 20+ were most likely Algeria.
Or are you speaking of a different source? Can you link it?



That's what I thought and what we've been hearing for quite sometime in that the IRIAF really liked the Su-30 and was prepared to purchase a ridiculous amount of them just to instantaneously augment the air force capabilities.
Iran wants to replace f-4 fleet with su-30 so yes the purchase will be a large one.
 

Gomig-21

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Iran wants to replace f-4 fleet with su-30 so yes the purchase will be a large one.
I think the count of 200 Su-30s in the rumor was a bit crazy TBH. But I still think it could easily be close to 50 aircraft which would be an amazing start anyway. Not anyone can just go out and buy 50 Su-30s. So yeah, the 200 I think was getting stretched out by rumors, but if we hear an initial order of 50, then maybe an additional order of Su-35s beyond that could take place. You have to consider Russia's ability to supply all these orders, too. That obviously has a lot to do with it also.
 

Hormuz

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Iran wants to replace f-4 fleet with su-30 so yes the purchase will be a large one.
How many f-4 are operational? in wikipedia it says 47 from which 16 are f-4re. but i think the number is larger. is there any other reiable source teh wikipedia?
 

Mithridates

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How many f-4 are operational? in wikipedia it says 47 from which 16 are f-4re. but i think the number is larger. is there any other reiable source teh wikipedia?
i don't know bro. you can not find a reliable source as Iran itself does not publishes the numbers and the rest are merely speculations.
 

PeeD

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Russia has offered SU-57 to Turkey. The issue of selling SU-57 to Iran is mostly political.

Sukhoi desperately needs buyers as both India and Russia have cut back their demand for the fighter jet. At the end of the day they are a business and need to recoup the money they invested in such a project.

With most of the region fielding F-35s or 5th gen fighters, the issue becomes less controversial.

I think Iran can likely get its hands on SU-57 or J-31 as long as neither Russia or China decide to play games.
They are now state UAC. If it was Mig, then that free business argument could work.

Su-57 is their top product, they will sell it anyway, but not to an ambitious country like Iran.
 

TheImmortal

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Are you talking about a separate order from the Egyptian 30 aircraft? The last report of 50+ showed 30 of those (of which 10 have already been delivered) were EAF aircraft and the other 20+ were most likely Algeria.
Or are you speaking of a different source? Can you link it?



That's what I thought and what we've been hearing for quite sometime in that the IRIAF really liked the Su-30 and was prepared to purchase a ridiculous amount of them just to instantaneously augment the air force capabilities.
Egyptian SU-35 are already been ordered and delivery has begun. I’m talking about different order. Here is source


They are now state UAC. If it was Mig, then that free business argument could work.

Su-57 is their top product, they will sell it anyway, but not to an ambitious country like Iran.
Turkey is not an ambitious country? Turkey has much more competing spheres with Russia than Iran (Black Sea, Muslim regions of Russia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, etc)

I’m sorry I disagree with your analysis. Russia may very well use Iran as leverage to score brownie points with the West, but the SU-57 is hardly an F-22 equivalent fighter jet. It’s more a 4+++ type aircraft then true 5th gen fighter. It’s more maneuverability a la SU-35 than pure stealth based fighter.

Not to mention Russia has immense leverage on Iran who has very little experience with SU-27 derivative aircraft (tho they own some Su-22) let alone SU-57. Thus Russia could ground the fleet a la F-14 1979 scenario if things truly get hairy between the two countries (unlikely).

India wasn’t too impressed by it neither was Russian Federation regardless of what Putin says. And with MIG building their own stealth based 5th gen, they will try to take market share from Sukhoi. With China also looking to export J-31 and maybe J-20 (unlikely); the number of countries NOT in US Arms Industry pockets is very small. The number that can afford a large fleet of aircraft is even smaller. So Sukhoi will have to compete with MIG and Chinese companies to win contracts in Iran.

Iran could place the largest foreign order for fighter jets in recent history with up to 100-150 fighter jets needed to rehaul the fleet.

I brush off whatever IRGC says about not needing fighter jets. Historically IRGC has been against a strong airforce, yet they forget that airforce single handily protected Iran during the war. The Syria civil war was a final wake up call that final let the stubborn IRGC commanders realize they need to establish a CAS air squadron division. I followed the Syria civil war closely and until Russian airforce joined, Iran was at best going to be able to hold Alawite strongholds. Aleppo was a distant dream. Losses were heavy. So that conflict single handily changed IRGC perception on AirPower though they still aren’t pro large airforce.

The Tehran airline incident showed that a incompetent AD team seriously thought that a cruise missile not only broke through prototype Bavar AD rings and S-300 rings but somehow made it all the way to Tehran one of the most heavily defended spots of Iran. That should scream alarm bells about the reason why such a team would think a feat would be possible.

So me and you def disagree in the philosophy and need for superiority air fighters to take stress off the AD system network of Iran.

I simply don’t share your optimistic viewpoint that AD systems (which can be prone to EW) and a handful of F-14’s is sufficient against a large adversary fielding 5th gen fighters/BMs/CMs/stealth CMs.

Now right now that list is USA/Israel but in the future can include Pakistan/Saudi Arabia/Turkey/Egypt as well.
 
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Philosopher

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Iran to Extend Range of Air-Launched Cruise Missiles

TEHRAN (Tasnim) – Iran’s Defense Minister Brigadier General Amir Hatami unveiled plans to extend the range of homegrown air-launched cruise missiles beyond 1,000 kilometers.
In an interview with Iran daily paper, the defense minister highlighted the country’s advances in the missile industry, saying Iranian naval cruise missiles are capable of hitting hostile targets at a distance of more than 1,000 kilometers.

While the range of anti-surface and naval cruise missiles has surpassed 1,000 km, the ground-launched cruise missiles can travel as far as 1,400 km, and the range of the air-launched ones is going to exceed 1,000 km too, the minister added.

He noted that Iran has developed a fully homegrown missile industry and manufactured various solid and liquid-propellant missiles, although the range of the projectiles has been restricted to 2,000 kilometers considering the country’s needs and defense policies.

The Defense Ministry has focused efforts to increase the output and boost the quality of various missiles with high maneuverability to surprise the enemy’s air defense, he added, the government’s website reported.

Brigadier General Hatami also noted that more than 90 percent of the arms demands are supplied domestically with the help of 5,700 private companies, including 655 knowledge-based firms.

Saying that the %10 dependence on imports has no significant impact on Iran’s defense power, he noted that termination of a UN arms embargo on Iran will allow the country to work with other countries.

In August, General Hatami expressed Iran’s readiness to take any opportunity to work with friendly countries to supply its technological and arms demands and to sell its products.

A UN embargo against Iran on conventional arms is due to expire on October 18 under the terms of a resolution that blessed the Iran nuclear deal, signed in July 2015 and officially known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA).

 

Saleh99

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Hahahah 👌🏻👌🏻
Iran to Extend Range of Air-Launched Cruise Missiles

TEHRAN (Tasnim) – Iran’s Defense Minister Brigadier General Amir Hatami unveiled plans to extend the range of homegrown air-launched cruise missiles beyond 1,000 kilometers.
In an interview with Iran daily paper, the defense minister highlighted the country’s advances in the missile industry, saying Iranian naval cruise missiles are capable of hitting hostile targets at a distance of more than 1,000 kilometers.

While the range of anti-surface and naval cruise missiles has surpassed 1,000 km, the ground-launched cruise missiles can travel as far as 1,400 km, and the range of the air-launched ones is going to exceed 1,000 km too, the minister added.

He noted that Iran has developed a fully homegrown missile industry and manufactured various solid and liquid-propellant missiles, although the range of the projectiles has been restricted to 2,000 kilometers considering the country’s needs and defense policies.

The Defense Ministry has focused efforts to increase the output and boost the quality of various missiles with high maneuverability to surprise the enemy’s air defense, he added, the government’s website reported.

Brigadier General Hatami also noted that more than 90 percent of the arms demands are supplied domestically with the help of 5,700 private companies, including 655 knowledge-based firms.

Saying that the %10 dependence on imports has no significant impact on Iran’s defense power, he noted that termination of a UN arms embargo on Iran will allow the country to work with other countries.

In August, General Hatami expressed Iran’s readiness to take any opportunity to work with friendly countries to supply its technological and arms demands and to sell its products.

A UN embargo against Iran on conventional arms is due to expire on October 18 under the terms of a resolution that blessed the Iran nuclear deal, signed in July 2015 and officially known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA).

did they unveil the air launched cruise missile? Or they mean air launched variant of soumar?
 

Philosopher

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Hahahah 👌🏻👌🏻

did they unveil the air launched cruise missile? Or they mean air launched variant of soumar?
It most certainly will be an air launched version of the Soumar family. We had a ground launched and anti-naval version, only one missing is an air launched.
 

TheImmortal

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It most certainly will be an air launched version of the Soumar family. We had a ground launched and anti-naval version, only one missing is an air launched.
The question is if theoretical range is 1400KM what is the guidance system? Has Iran shown a Middle East TERCOM system? What is the seeker system in SOUMAR? That is the unknown component.
 

Saleh99

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It most certainly will be an air launched version of the Soumar family. We had a ground launched and anti-naval version, only one missing is an air launched.
Is there any difference between land based soumar and air launched variant in guidance? Also they’ll just remove the booster?
 

PeeD

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I’m sorry I disagree with your analysis. Russia may very well use Iran as leverage to score brownie points with the West, but the SU-57 is hardly an F-22 equivalent fighter jet. It’s more a 4+++ type aircraft then true 5th gen fighter. It’s more maneuverability a la SU-35 than pure stealth based fighter.
F-22's only advantage is in stealth performance. This comes at a 4-5x higher cost compared to the Su-57.

Su-57 is a balanced design, alone its kinematic performance (with its final engines) makes up for the somewhat lower LO performance. As weapon system its superior due to cost-effect.

Turkey is not an ambitious country? Turkey has much more competing spheres with Russia than Iran (Black Sea, Muslim regions of Russia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, etc)
Turkey is not a strategic nation. They are trying but still no problem fur Russia. Iran has clear strategic ambitions and works toward it.

I brush off whatever IRGC says about not needing fighter jets. Historically IRGC has been against a strong airforce, yet they forget that airforce single handily protected Iran during the war. The Syria civil war was a final wake up call that final let the stubborn IRGC commanders realize they need to establish a CAS air squadron division. I followed the Syria civil war closely and until Russian airforce joined, Iran was at best going to be able to hold Alawite strongholds. Aleppo was a distant dream. Losses were heavy. So that conflict single handily changed IRGC perception on AirPower though they still aren’t pro large airforce.
Russians have cost efficient airpower.
Iran could have sent drones and many F-5 and F-4. But that would be stupid as they are not replaceable and prone to attacks by Israel, Turkey and the U.S.
So in fact it was the low cost operation and Russias heavy strategic weight that allowed it.

Also please don't compare Iran-Iraq war to a modern war involving Iran.

Plus: How do you want to handle new U.S hypersonic stand-off weapons in future? Their main purpose is to take out the non-hardened airbases.
IRGC is dead right to view airpower as nonstarter against a power like the U.S.

The Tehran airline incident showed that a incompetent AD team seriously thought that a cruise missile not only broke through prototype Bavar AD rings and S-300 rings but somehow made it all the way to Tehran one of the most heavily defended spots of Iran. That should scream alarm bells about the reason why such a team would think a feat would be possible.
Come on, in modern war situation no Boing is flying around, nor is the IRIAF operation in areas were "legacy" IRGC AD systems operate.

Iran is building an automated IADS to avoid such incompetence.

I simply don’t share your optimistic viewpoint that AD systems (which can be prone to EW) and a handful of F-14’s is sufficient against a large adversary fielding 5th gen fighters/BMs/CMs/stealth CMs.
Me neither: Iran is not Russia, it lacks the numbers for now. What will happen is rather that stand-alone IRGC 3rd Khordad drive out of warehouses and shot at enemy airpower at opportunity.
It will create a situation where enemy airpower is not sure whether the area is secure or not.
This uncertainty will screw their planning, sortie rate and so on.
CMs will impact in Tehran deep inside the country. Only Russia level IADS and maybe Chinese can create really secure spheres.

But Iran will get there sooner or later.
 

triangle

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I brush off whatever IRGC says about not needing fighter jets. Historically IRGC has been against a strong airforce, yet they forget that airforce single handily protected Iran during the war. The Syria civil war was a final wake up call that final let the stubborn IRGC commanders realize they need to establish a CAS air squadron division. I followed the Syria civil war closely and until Russian airforce joined, Iran was at best going to be able to hold Alawite strongholds. Aleppo was a distant dream. Losses were heavy. So that conflict single handily changed IRGC perception on AirPower though they still aren’t pro large airforce.
Then why didn't the IRIAF deploy a dozen F-4 with precision strike capability to Syria?

Edit: nvm, prone to attack.
 
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Blue In Green

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F-22's only advantage is in stealth performance. This comes at a 4-5x higher cost compared to the Su-57.

Su-57 is a balanced design, alone its kinematic performance (with its final engines) makes up for the somewhat lower LO performance. As weapon system its superior due to cost-effect.



Turkey is not a strategic nation. They are trying but still no problem fur Russia. Iran has clear strategic ambitions and works toward it.



Russians have cost efficient airpower.
Iran could have sent drones and many F-5 and F-4. But that would be stupid as they are not replaceable and prone to attacks by Israel, Turkey and the U.S.
So in fact it was the low cost operation and Russias heavy strategic weight that allowed it.

Also please don't compare Iran-Iraq war to a modern war involving Iran.

Plus: How do you want to handle new U.S hypersonic stand-off weapons in future? Their main purpose is to take out the non-hardened airbases.
IRGC is dead right to view airpower as nonstarter against a power like the U.S.



Come on, in modern war situation no Boing is flying around, nor is the IRIAF operation in areas were "legacy" IRGC AD systems operate.

Iran is building an automated IADS to avoid such incompetence.



Me neither: Iran is not Russia, it lacks the numbers for now. What will happen is rather that stand-alone IRGC 3rd Khordad drive out of warehouses and shot at enemy airpower at opportunity.
It will create a situation where enemy airpower is not sure whether the area is secure or not.
This uncertainty will screw their planning, sortie rate and so on.
CMs will impact in Tehran deep inside the country. Only Russia level IADS and maybe Chinese can create really secure spheres.

But Iran will get there sooner or later.
With the now in service Khordad 15, Third of Khordad, Bavar-373 and a slew of AD/SHORAD systems: where exactly does Iran stand in a fight against regional powers? -- emphasis being on possible conflict the U.S. military.

I think we can safely say that Iran absolutely does not plan on building any sort of near-pear or even adjacent symmetrical Air force capability that rivals its neighbors toe-to-toe due to cost and the looming threat of obliteration from newer generation HGVs and the like. Iran acquiring a smaller amount of modern air-craft that are multi-role and can fulfill certain defense/offense requirements without straining the national defense budget is in my view an absolute must.

The Aerospace missile force still caries Iran's primary means of attacking back and has proven itself (at least somewhat) to be an effective method of attack in practice although the tactical viability of the force still is in question due there not being a active conflict to test them out in full.

We can only wait and see on how Iran wants to move forward regarding it air-power. Honestly I would be okay with a small acquisition of some sort of Multi-role air-craft.
 

Blue In Green

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Then why didn't the IRIAF deploy a dozen F-4 with precision strike capability to Syria?
America and Israel would jump at the opportunity to attack them since they would be vulnerable against superior USAF/IAF air-power. It's too far from Iran and their just isn't sufficient enough local air-defense/air superiority to cover the F-4s.
 

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