What's new

IRIAF | News and Discussions

sha ah

FULL MEMBER
Mar 2, 2018
559
0
680
Country
Iran, Islamic Republic Of
Location
Canada
Turkey is most likely not getting its hands on the F-35. As we speak many US senators are hell bent on imposing sanctions on Turkey for the S-400 purchase. This will be delayed because of US elections however they're teetering on the brink.

Turkey's economy is currently not doing well and as a result Erdogan wants to claim natural gas fields from southern Cyprus to remedy the situation. The Europeans however are not going to stand for this and will surely impose sanctions over this issue alone, never mind other issues like Turkey building a serious missile capacity that can threaten Europe or the nuclear reactors that Russia is going to build for Turkey within the next decade.

Turkey can always purchase jets like the SU-35 from Russia, that's on option, however the TF-X being produced by the British company BAE is what they're really looking forward to. Although like I've stated, with their current expansionist foreign policy, they might run into a situation where EU/US sanctions prevent them from acquiring vital spare parts for this jet.

Turkey's current foreign policy has truly put them in between a rock and a hard place so to speak, No matter where they purchase their 5th generation fighter jet from they will seemingly have conflicting issues.

Whether they choose the USA, EU/UK or Russia, their foreign policy will then be limited by the will and whims of those nations . For Turkey it would almost be better to buy from the Chinese, since China is not as involved in Turkey's immediate sphere of influence. However I doubt Turkey would purchase 5th generation fighters from China because of their opposition to the Uighur issue.

Then there's the Korean KF-X,. At first glance that might seem like a good fit since Turkey is already cooperating with the Koreans on the Altay tank. Then again the KF-X is more than likely going to utilize a significant amount of western hardware and technology. The fact of the matter is that Korea is really nothing more than a US vassal so they're basically at square one, with the puppet strings again leading to the US.


Well according to the president of the Turkish defense industries, there will be no stop-gap fighter purchase, other than a possible F-35 purchase. Focus is on the TF-X and probably most probably an indigenous F-16 upgrade.
But then again, you never know happens and circumstances might change. IMO low chance of a Russian fighter being bought because of the bad political consequences with the S-400 purchase. They might go for the eurofighter or more F-16's if the F-35 is not available.

TBH, they should've gone for the F-35 as their last fighter and use this decade (2020-2030) to build a formidable missile arsenal with precision strike capability with various ranges and association infrastructure like Iran has done for the last 30 years. Turkey is very similar to Iran in terms of geography suitable for underground missile bases and the like. They might not built an arsenal as large as the Iranians because of the higher prices, but the quality and reliability will most probably be better than the Iranian ones. Higher reliability and quality means a higher Pk.
All of this would mean shelving the TF-X program and go for an F-35+indigenous air-to-air UCAV. 150 or so F-35 with 300-450 wingman UCAV's, with MIUS, Akinci's and the like + a huge ballistic missile arsenal is a very potent, balanced and diverse precision strike capability. And the gained technology of the ballistic missiles would translate to other fields like air-defense and a space program.
 

TheImmortal

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 11, 2017
2,918
-10
4,691
Country
United States
Location
United States
Well, read your post again and then ask yourself:

How could it be that the US put nearly a trillion dollar into the development and purchase of f-22 and f-35 and still does not resolve some minor flaws?
It’s because the US Military industrial Complex thrives on overcost and over promise. These are publicly traded companies on stock exchange. Their loyalties lie in profit not countries.

South Korea showed that you can have a successful low cost fighter jet program. So it is possible.

But expecting Iran to build a completely NEW design 5th gen fighter and have it be ready in under decade is a wishful thinking.

Iran is at best on par with other countries in terms of rate of production and at worst significantly slower.

Iran isn’t WW2 Nazi Germany. WW2 Germany’s defense budget was 80B when adjusted for inflation. Iran’s is less than 20B. Thus one needs to have realistic timelines for sophisticated projects.
 

Mr Iran Eye

FULL MEMBER
Feb 6, 2019
140
0
334
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
Very funny when people talk about Iranian fighter jets. Iran is far from being a great weakness and all of their planes are improved. Platforms like the F-5 Kowsar and the F-4 are constantly improving technology. Through these platforms and the new associated technology, Iran is building new combat aircraft.

For the purchase of Russian aircraft, I prefer the almost final version of the mig-35. We will have news of the final version soon from Russia. For the Kowsar, this is not a fighter plane to be taken lightly. And as General Hatami says:

"Whatever it looks like the F-5, the Kowsar fighter plane was designed and produced from A to Z by Iranian experts," Iranian Defense Minister reiterated, adding that four Kowsar fighter jets were already operational in the army air force. “What sets the Kowsar and the F-5 apart is that the Iranian aircraft has a very sophisticated avionics system that is in line with modern technology and our defense needs, a system that has made it a fighter jet. formidable ”, said General Hatami
 

triangle

MEMBER
Jun 21, 2020
248
0
375
Country
Italy
Location
Italy
Turkey is most likely not getting its hands on the F-35. As we speak many US senators are hell bent on imposing sanctions on Turkey for the S-400 purchase. This will be delayed because of US elections however they're teetering on the brink.
The sanctions have already been placed through the CAATSA. No F-35 for this moment, although they are trying to find ways around it. If I had to choose between F-35 and S-400, I would choose the F-35.

Turkey's economy is currently not doing well and as a result Erdogan wants to claim natural gas fields from southern Cyprus to remedy the situation. The Europeans however are not going to stand for this and will surely impose sanctions over this issue alone, never mind other issues like Turkey building a serious missile capacity that can threaten Europe or the nuclear reactors that Russia is going to build for Turkey within the next decade.
I'm sure it won't go that far.

Turkey can always purchase jets like the SU-35 from Russia, that's on option, however the TF-X being produced by the British company BAE is what they're really looking forward to. Although like I've stated, with their current expansionist foreign policy, they might run into a situation where EU/US sanctions prevent them from acquiring vital spare parts for this jet.
Buying Su-35 would bring more sanctions to the table. TF-X is not produced by BAE. They are providing engineering assistance. The TF-X is going to be built indigenous by Turkey with full IP and export rights. IMO I could see the whole project shelved or cancelled before the Turks allow any foreign control to production and export to occur.

Turkey's current foreign policy has truly put them in between a rock and a hard place so to speak, No matter where they purchase their 5th generation fighter jet from they will seemingly have conflicting issues. Whether they choose the USA, EU/UK or Russia, their foreign policy will then be limited by the will and whims of those nations . For Turkey it would almost be better to buy from the Chinese, since China is not as involved in Turkey's immediate sphere of influence. However I doubt Turkey would purchase 5th generation fighters from China because of their opposition to the Uighur issue.
There are few countries in the world that can pursue an independent foreign policy. It takes guts and ambition to do that. As an Iranian you surely do understand.


Then there's the Korean KF-X,. At first glance that might seem like a good fit since Turkey is already cooperating with the Koreans on the Altay tank. Then again the KF-X is more than likely going to utilize a significant amount of western hardware and technology. The fact of the matter is that Korea is really nothing more than a US vassal so they're basically at square one, with the puppet strings again leading to the US.
And that is what Turkey is trying to avoid, being dependent on others on these strategic issues.


IMO Turkey should pursue a large and diverse ballistic missile program instead of the TF-X.
 

Ich

FULL MEMBER
Mar 14, 2018
573
0
731
Country
Germany
Location
Germany
It’s because the US Military industrial Complex thrives on overcost and over promise. These are publicly traded companies on stock exchange. Their loyalties lie in profit not countries.
Yes. So the time frame differ with the time frame of a country which needed a solution to survive. Me is sure that the US would have build the F-35 from scratch to mass production within 5 years if the future of the country depends on it.

South Korea showed that you can have a successful low cost fighter jet program. So it is possible.
I didnt see much in the vid. I saw robotics, a saw an air frame construction with the help of robotics, and when the vid was over, me ask myself if i saw a commercial for production robots or else.

But expecting Iran to build a completely NEW design 5th gen fighter and have it be ready in under decade is a wishful thinking.
Ah, here is the point where we both misinterpret us. I wrote about a 4-4,5 gen Fighter (e.g. SU-30/35), you wrote about a 5 gen fighter :-)

Iran is at best on par with other countries in terms of rate of production and at worst significantly slower.
With what countries?

Iran isn’t WW2 Nazi Germany. WW2 Germany’s defense budget was 80B when adjusted for inflation. Iran’s is less than 20B. Thus one needs to have realistic timelines for sophisticated projects.
Its modern time. No one cares about a budget from ww2.
 

TheImmortal

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 11, 2017
2,918
-10
4,691
Country
United States
Location
United States
Yes. So the time frame differ with the time frame of a country which needed a solution to survive. Me is sure that the US would have build the F-35 from scratch to mass production within 5 years if the future of the country depends on it.



I didnt see much in the vid. I saw robotics, a saw an air frame construction with the help of robotics, and when the vid was over, me ask myself if i saw a commercial for production robots or else.



Ah, here is the point where we both misinterpret us. I wrote about a 4-4,5 gen Fighter (e.g. SU-30/35), you wrote about a 5 gen fighter :-)



With what countries?



Its modern time. No one cares about a budget from ww2.
F-35 in 5 years? Come on now. You need 5 years just to get to prototype testing. Let’s not say funny words now.

And I was talking about South Korea’s successful supersonic trainer the T-50. This isn’t their first rodeo.

In terms of production of military projects Iran is on par with Western/Eastern countries in terms of timetable in BEST case scenario. For you to field a fighter jet in 5 years (like you say) you would need to be ahead of Russia/China/US in R&D to production schedule which Iran is not by any means. Hence why I said best case scenario they could be on par. (Which is optimistic).

Bavar, Mowj, Fateh show you time from R&D to production in Iran for major defense projects takes time. Iran with little experience and limited infrastructure cannot hope to field a SU-30 equivalent project in 5 years.

F-313 was a possibility since it was unveiled long time ago in concept stage so by 2025 would be over 10+ years in production schedule. But I think that project was shelved since Iran rarely ever mentions the project anymore.

So only way Iran produces a fighter jet in next 5 years in mass production phase is if they have Been secretly working on a design for past 5-10 years. It’s possible, not likely but possible. I think until the Research engines reach maturity and are ready for production nothing can truly begin. But that’s my opinion.
 

PeeD

FULL MEMBER
Nov 28, 2014
1,325
21
5,647
Country
Iran, Islamic Republic Of
Location
Iran, Islamic Republic Of

Total three part, things r pretty much detailed...
Love that statement on the video: Most important and critical system of the Su-57, is the engine.

I also love this statement by Irans DM Hatami: 90% of our defense needs we meet by ourselves, the reminder 10% is not critical for our defense capability (meaning fighters and the air force)

So fist fighters are not critical and second without an Iranian engine things go nowhere.

S.Korea gets U.S engines as highly industrialized country and Turkey basically hopes for the UK to built it a engine.
 

Ich

FULL MEMBER
Mar 14, 2018
573
0
731
Country
Germany
Location
Germany
F-35 in 5 years? Come on now. You need 5 years just to get to prototype testing. Let’s not say funny words now.
F-35 in 5 years is my assessment of the max US military air plane development and production capability if they would go all in.

And I was talking about South Korea’s successful supersonic trainer the T-50. This isn’t their first rodeo.
ok

In terms of production of military projects Iran is on par with Western/Eastern countries in terms of timetable in BEST case scenario. For you to field a fighter jet in 5 years (like you say) you would need to be ahead of Russia/China/US in R&D to production schedule which Iran is not by any means. Hence why I said best case scenario they could be on par. (Which is optimistic).

Bavar, Mowj, Fateh show you time from R&D to production in Iran for major defense projects takes time. Iran with little experience and limited infrastructure cannot hope to field a SU-30 equivalent project in 5 years.

F-313 was a possibility since it was unveiled long time ago in concept stage so by 2025 would be over 10+ years in production schedule. But I think that project was shelved since Iran rarely ever mentions the project anymore.

So only way Iran produces a fighter jet in next 5 years in mass production phase is if they have Been secretly working on a design for past 5-10 years. It’s possible, not likely but possible. I think until the Research engines reach maturity and are ready for production nothing can truly begin. But that’s my opinion.
The "5 years" from scratch to mass was ment for the US capability. For Iran me think that there are already various fighter planes virtually constructed and the building prototype phase of this planes will start when the turbofan is ready.
 

Shams313

FULL MEMBER
Mar 27, 2014
634
0
1,049
Country
Bangladesh
Location
Bangladesh
Love that statement on the video: Most important and critical system of the Su-57, is the engine.

I also love this statement by Irans DM Hatami: 90% of our defense needs we meet by ourselves, the reminder 10% is not critical for our defense capability (meaning fighters and the air force)

So fist fighters are not critical and second without an Iranian engine things go nowhere.

S.Korea gets U.S engines as highly industrialized country and Turkey basically hopes for the UK to built it a engine.
but if there is a possibility to buy those birds, Iran should do it...

that brings new technology, concepts and meanwhile, Iranian engines are being ready.

Iran definitely should go for 50 su57 in future.
 

PeeD

FULL MEMBER
Nov 28, 2014
1,325
21
5,647
Country
Iran, Islamic Republic Of
Location
Iran, Islamic Republic Of
Russia almost certainly won't sell Iran the Su-57.

As said in one of my previous posts: 4-6 squadrons of Su-35 would soften the pressure on Irans IADS from a concentrated enemy airpower attack on a single sector.
But that's not a critical issue, just adds flexibility.
 

Saleh99

FULL MEMBER
Jun 4, 2020
153
0
110
Country
Lebanon
Location
Lebanon
Russia almost certainly won't sell Iran the Su-57.

As said in one of my previous posts: 4-6 squadrons of Su-35 would soften the pressure on Irans IADS from a concentrated enemy airpower attack on a single sector.
But that's not a critical issue, just adds flexibility.
Hey man, do you think iran is one of top countries by ADs and what do they miss for them to have a fully IADS? Last thing Why the Bavar-373 isn’t operational yet?!
 

TheImmortal

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 11, 2017
2,918
-10
4,691
Country
United States
Location
United States
Russia almost certainly won't sell Iran the Su-57.

As said in one of my previous posts: 4-6 squadrons of Su-35 would soften the pressure on Irans IADS from a concentrated enemy airpower attack on a single sector.
But that's not a critical issue, just adds flexibility.
Russia has offered SU-57 to Turkey. The issue of selling SU-57 to Iran is mostly political.

Sukhoi desperately needs buyers as both India and Russia have cut back their demand for the fighter jet. At the end of the day they are a business and need to recoup the money they invested in such a project.

With most of the region fielding F-35s or 5th gen fighters, the issue becomes less controversial.

I think Iran can likely get its hands on SU-57 or J-31 as long as neither Russia or China decide to play games.
 

Gomig-21

SENIOR MEMBER
Oct 16, 2016
4,160
9
8,270
Country
Egypt
Location
United States
There is talk that an unnamed country put a large 50+ order in for SU-35 to be delivered in 2021-2022. That country could very well be Iran (maybe India).
Are you talking about a separate order from the Egyptian 30 aircraft? The last report of 50+ showed 30 of those (of which 10 have already been delivered) were EAF aircraft and the other 20+ were most likely Algeria.
Or are you speaking of a different source? Can you link it?

so far only su-30 officially confirmed.
That's what I thought and what we've been hearing for quite sometime in that the IRIAF really liked the Su-30 and was prepared to purchase a ridiculous amount of them just to instantaneously augment the air force capabilities.
 

Blue In Green

FULL MEMBER
Nov 30, 2016
1,435
0
2,442
Country
United States
Location
United States
Russia has offered SU-57 to Turkey. The issue of selling SU-57 to Iran is mostly political.

Sukhoi desperately needs buyers as both India and Russia have cut back their demand for the fighter jet. At the end of the day they are a business and need to recoup the money they invested in such a project.

With most of the region fielding F-35s or 5th gen fighters, the issue becomes less controversial.

I think Iran can likely get its hands on SU-57 or J-31 as long as neither Russia or China decide to play games.
lol

Why do I get the feeling that they will play games. After-all Russia did so last time and there is incentive for them to do it again this time (or at least it seems that way). We an only hope they don't treat Iran like some geo-political punching bag to be tossed around like some woeful prize piece for whatever arbitrary goal....

Sorry, I and many others were so badly spurned and disenfranchised by the S-300 debacle that it left a damn-near permanent bad mark on the Russians for me. How a nation could not give the systems Iran bought amidst credible threats against its infrastructure just saddens me. Playing games like that with a nation that needed (at that time) such ADs makes my blood boil....
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Top