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Nasr

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@yavar

How confident are you Russian will not again screw this deal like they did with the S-300?

We have learnt in history, many times, that russia is a very unraliable partner, they cheated many times on Iran

Syria is still waiting for the YAK-130 they signed with russia ~ 10 years ago

+ lets not forget the joint Russia-Iran Fighter Jet Project which russia left because of the engines

+ the pressure from Israel/USA will be imense

Lets hope that Iran will be able to reverse engineer the engine, avionics, airframe... within 10 years after delivery of the first SU-35 and we may see an better, "iranian" SU-35 in the future..
Russia is not the unreliable partner, rather Russia only tried to be fair toward israel. However, as time progressed, israel showed it's nasty true self by actively supporting Georgia in the South Ossetian War. israel also showed it's nasty true self when it used clandestine means to transport weapons via Azerbaijan, through Bulgaria and into Syria, arming it's ISIS terrorists. One can liken the relationship of isis with israel, to what j@ckass evangelical-americans have with israel. And to top off its arrogance, israel used it's clandestine assets to start up a conflict between turkey and Russia, by assassinating Russia's Ambassador to turkey, in Ankara. Last but not the least, when israeli jets which conducted missile strikes in Syria, used for cover, a Russian Air Force reconnaissance aircraft when the Syrian Air Defenses engaged the pathetic israeli coward fighter-jets. As a consequence, the Russian reconnaissance aircraft was shot down killing 15 personnel onboard.

A clear warning to Russia, israel is not your friend and they will backstab you the moment you let your guard down. As it has become abundantly evident. So continue to support that b@$tard-state of israel, will lead to your own detriment.
 

Sineva

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Iran can produce some things but the quality is not on par with Russia, so why not cooperate with them ?
Why not?
Well,sadly,the russians have proved on numerous occasions previously that they are neither trustworthy nor reliable,and until there is some very clear evidence of a behavior change on russias part vis-a-vis iran,well then any large purchases of this sort are a real gamble to put it mildly.....

Russia did screw around with the S-300, however that was because the of the UN restrictions.
No.That was simply the russian excuse,however the sanctions did not include defensive weapons such as sam systems.This was why iran was able to take the russians to arbitration and receive a 4 billion dollar judgement against them for breach of contract,so ultimately the russians either had to deliver the system or pay a penalty which was I think equal to almost 6 times the value of the original contract.Nonetheless they did drag their feet,first offering to supply more tors,then the s300vm tho this was called the almaz-antey 2500[LOL!].Finally when iran insisted the russians used the excuse of the jcpoa negotiations to finally supply the system almost a decade after it was first ordered.
The only bright spot in the whole s300 fiasco was that the original system that iran had ordered the pmu1 was no longer being produced so the russians had to supply a late model pmu2 with some s400 bits added.
Now personally I hope that the russians have changed,certainly the political situation vis-a-vis russia-western relations has changed dramatically in the last few years,so there is at least the potential for a more trustworthy russia as far as iran is concerned,but I think its still up to the russians to prove it,and until they do potential large purchases like this one,assuming its actually true that is,seem very,very risky in the extreme.However license production on the other hand seems a safer bet even if it takes longer to set up and may cost more in the short term,not to mention that local production would mean not having to rely on russias notoriously poor aftermarket back up and logistics support.
Personally I think iran should look at what both russia AND china have to offer and who will be willing to give the better deal.

I'm still skeptical but only time will tell.
That makes two of us...
 

yavar

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Mar 20, 2013
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@yavar
How confident are you Russian will not again screw this deal like they did with the S-300?
not very confident

@yavar
Lets hope that Iran will be able to reverse engineer the engine," SU-35 in the future..
we already can make AL-31 but not as good as Russia quality
maybe before october we test fight but there is very very low chance of that


17 Aug 2019
سرلشکر باقری اقدامات جهادی متخصصان داخلی در ارتقای صنعت دفاعی را مصداق بارز تحقق "ما می‌توانیم" عنوان و تصریح کرد: این مسیر عزتبخش از ساخت تعدادی قطعه ساده آغاز شد و امروز در حال ورود به ساخت موتورهای هواپیماها و بالگردهای روز دنیا قرار داشته و به‌فضل الهی در آستانه دستیابی به خودکفایی کامل در این سامانه‌های ارزشمند هستیم.



this was first time chief staff of armed forces give way the indication


can Iranian member translate for this member thank you
 
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yavar

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Iran's technological manufacturing same level as China ? WHAT ? I'm sorry but I can't agree on that.
what i meant was when it comes to making electronic warfare, avionic, radar and fighter aircraft engines. nano, metalogy, CNC machining, tools making machines ....
all to do with manufacturing fighter engine and internal pilot cockpit stuff, not actually manufacturing aircraft

i did not mean in space or telecommunication
if that make it okay

you would be surprised if you found out in some field of nuclear detonation technology Iran is head, but i don't do conspiracy tory
 

triangle

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you would be surprised if you found out in some field of nuclear detonation technology Iran is head, but i don't do conspiracy tory
And some people here castigate me for using open sources to guesstimate Iranian military capability :cheesy:

*If yavar got it from the stoles nuclear files which Bibi made public, then his statement is regarded as open source
 

sha ah

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After the Iran 140 fiasco (An-140), hopefully Iran will find better, reliable partners, like Russia or China, to either purchase high quality parts from (preferably with TOT) or to co-produce.

I'm not sure if Ukraine ever compensated Iran, but In my opinion Iran should have sued Ukraine for selling them faulty junk planes.

i'm wondering how long we should wait to see this fly...
 

Sineva

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After the Iran 140 fiasco (An-140), hopefully Iran will find better, reliable partners, like Russia or China, to either purchase high quality parts from (preferably with TOT) or to co-produce.

I'm not sure if Ukraine ever compensated Iran, but In my opinion Iran should have sued Ukraine for selling them faulty junk planes.
Ordering something virtually off the drawing board is always a very risky proposition and sadly in this case ultimately proved to be a bad idea,if even a couple of examples had been procured for testing in iran under local conditions it would`ve been quickly apparent that the aircraft was simply not suited to operations in the persian gulf/middle eastern conditions.
The biggest weakness were the engines,which performed quite well in their original helicopter turboshaft configuration,however they were obviously ill suited to a conversion into a turbo-prop.
However when one considers the not inconsiderable resources that were invested in this program tho`,its virtually criminal that serious attempts werent at least made to try and find a more suitable engine to potentially reengine the fleet with,sadly tho by that time rouhani had come to power and showed little interest,no doubt assuming that once he did his nuclear deal iran could buy all the western aircraft it wanted.:disagree::rolleyes:
 
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sha ah

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Iran got ripped off, plain and simple. I wouldn't be surprised if the Zionists had something to do with this and if it weren't a case of pure sabotage.

Like I said Iran needs to initiate a lawsuit in international court. Especially since now the Ukrainians are trying to take Iran to court over the shoot down of 752. But what about all the civilians that were lost due to Iran purchasing this junk that they can't even use anymore.

Of course some would argue that Iran should have conducted its own extensive testing on the vital parts of the planes before flying them, but when nations purchase such products they expect them to be safe and functional, certified, etc

Ukraine isn't exactly on par with nations like the USA, France, Germany, Russia or even China when it comes to production quality, but still planes should not be certified to fly unless they are 100% safe.

Recently the US army asked the Ukrainians for one quantity of the BM Oplot tank for evaluation purposes however they could not even produce one single tank.

Of course because of the recent situation with Crimea and eastern Ukraine, you could argue that the country is in a dire situation but still, 1 tank ?

Instead of purchasing these junk Ukrainian planes, Iran should have purchased reliable Russian military planes like the IL-76 for example and converted them to civilian use. In the future if the sanctions are not lifted and Iran cannot build its own, purchase civilian transport planes from the west or even Russia or China, this will probably be the most viable option. However if Iran does this, they have to go with planes which have a superb proven track record.

Ordering something virtually off the drawing board is always a very risky proposition and sadly in this case ultimately proved to be a bad idea,if even a couple of examples had been procured for testing in iran under local conditions it would`ve been quickly apparent that the aircraft was simply not suited to operations in the persian gulf/middle eastern conditions.
The biggest weakness were the engines,which performed quite well in their original helicopter turboshaft configuration,however they were obviously ill suited to a conversion into a turbo-prop.
However when one considers the not inconsiderable resources that were invested in this program tho`,its virtually criminal that serious attempts werent at least made to try and find a more suitable engine to potentially reengine the fleet with,sadly tho by that time rouhani had come to power and showed little interest,no doubt assuming that once he did his nuclear deal iran could buy all the western aircraft it wanted.:disagree::rolleyes:
 

sahureka2

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Sineva

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Iran got ripped off, plain and simple. I wouldn't be surprised if the Zionists had something to do with this and if it weren't a case of pure sabotage.

Like I said Iran needs to initiate a lawsuit in international court. Especially since now the Ukrainians are trying to take Iran to court over the shoot down of 752. But what about all the civilians that were lost due to Iran purchasing this junk that they can't even use anymore.

Of course some would argue that Iran should have conducted its own extensive testing on the vital parts of the planes before flying them, but when nations purchase such products they expect them to be safe and functional, certified, etc

Ukraine isn't exactly on par with nations like the USA, France, Germany, Russia or even China when it comes to production quality, but still planes should not be certified to fly unless they are 100% safe.

Recently the US army asked the Ukrainians for one quantity of the BM Oplot tank for evaluation purposes however they could not even produce one single tank.

Of course because of the recent situation with Crimea and eastern Ukraine, you could argue that the country is in a dire situation but still, 1 tank ?

Instead of purchasing these junk Ukrainian planes, Iran should have purchased reliable Russian military planes like the IL-76 for example and converted them to civilian use. In the future if the sanctions are not lifted and Iran cannot build its own, purchase civilian transport planes from the west or even Russia or China, this will probably be the most viable option. However if Iran does this, they have to go with planes which have a superb proven track record.
I agree,screw the ukrainians when it comes to paying any compensation for the 737,it was insured and its the job of the insurer to pay the claim and then to attempt to try to recover some of the costs from the other party.Besides with the sanctions these sorts of financial transactions are very difficult if not impossible,who`d have ever thought that sanctions would`ve actually been to irans advantage,at least in this case[LOL!].:sarcastic::sarcastic:
Theres virtually nothing left of the ukrainian military industrial complex these days sadly,its mostly just frankensteined bits and pieces of leftover old soviet hardware or vaporware like offering an225s or slava class hovercraft for sale which the ukrainians simply cannot build anymore.About the only thing left apart from black market sales ie rd250 to the dprk,is getting other nations to put up the cash to finish development of soviet or early post soviet weapons such as the iskander type grom 2 via saudi money in return for local production rights,tho interestingly the saudi-ukrainian attempt to build an132s fared even worse than irans efforts with the an140.
Sadly the russians fvcked their one only real chance at getting russian airliner production off of life support when they wouldnt supply the tu204 to iran with the ps90a2 engines because they didnt want to have to stand up to their new western bffs and call their bluff over the supply of the ps90a2s which had some western components,tho I`ve no doubt that aviadvigatel would never have agreed to work with pratt&whitney on the ps90a2 if they`d have known that doing so would`ve effectively given the us a veto over russian airliner sales[LOL]
I`ve no doubt that they`ve spent years regretting that one very poor decision,in fact right after the signing of the jcpoa they were trying to offer the tu204s with new redesigned ps90a3 engines and even talking about full licensed production in iran
 
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Mithridates

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I agree,screw the ukrainians when it comes to paying any compensation for the 737,it was insured and its the job of the insurer to pay the claim and then to attempt to try to recover some of the costs from the other party.Besides with the sanctions these sorts of financial transactions are very difficult if not impossible,who`d have ever thought that sanctions would`ve actually been to irans advantage,at least in this case[LOL!].:sarcastic::sarcastic:
Theres virtually nothing left of the ukrainian military industrial complex these days sadly,its mostly just frankensteined bits and pieces of leftover old soviet hardware or vaporware like offering an225s or slava class hovercraft for sale which the ukrainians simply cannot build anymore.About the only thing left apart from black market sales ie rd250 to the dprk,is getting other nations to put up the cash to finish development of soviet or early post soviet weapons such as the iskander type grom 2 via saudi money in return for local production rights,tho interestingly the saudi-ukrainian attempt to build an132s fared even worse than irans efforts with the an140.
Sadly the russians fvcked their one only real chance at getting russian airliner production off of life support when they wouldnt supply the tu204 to iran with the ps90a2 engines because they didnt want to have to stand up to their new western bffs and call their bluff over the supply of the ps90a2s which had some western components,tho I`ve no doubt that aviadvigatel would never have agreed to work with pratt&whitney on the ps90a2 if they`d have known that doing so would`ve effectively given the us a veto over russian airliner sales[LOL]
I`ve no doubt that they`ve spent years regretting that one very poor decision,in fact right after the signing of the jcpoa they were trying to offer the tu204s with new redesigned ps90a3 engines and even talking about full licensed production in iran
one of the their military product which is at the same level as world top players products, is the AI-222 engine. Chinese advanced trainers use that engine.
 

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