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TheImmortal

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F-16 Introduction 17 August 1978 - 41 years in service and updated will fly to many air forces for many more years
Apples and Oranges. The F-16 introduced in 1978 is nothing like the F-16 rolling off the assembly line in 2020.

Also many of those countries continuing to fly the F-16 ALREADY made the investment. Similar to how Iran is planning to fly F-14, F-5, F-4 well into the 2030’s.

Why would Iran invest in a platform that cannot reliably deal with its neighbors?

Iran’s first and foremost need is a air superiority and interceptor fighter jet. That design hardly looks like that. Iran needs at least 100-150 fighters to compliment the F-14’s and defend Iranian assets and skies while the air defense systems back them up.

Iran doesn’t need fighter jets that can fly to and bomb Saudi Arabia or Israel. That’s what Iran’s BM and CM program are for.

So again a Iranian F-16 is not a design for the future. This isn’t the Mowj series you can’t just build one of them and continuing experimenting and making design changes.

US and Europe have luxury of time to upgrade their air forces. War with Russia or China is not likely this upcoming decade. Iran on the other hand could be subjected to war at any time in the next 20 years. So do not look to what your enemies are doing.

Iran is better off acquiring SU-30 license and learning the technologies that Russians deploy on their fighter jets and incorporating that into a future Iranian fighter jet that would enter service 2035-2040.
 

sahureka2

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Apples and Oranges. The F-16 introduced in 1978 is nothing like the F-16 rolling off the assembly line in 2020.

Also many of those countries continuing to fly the F-16 ALREADY made the investment. Similar to how Iran is planning to fly F-14, F-5, F-4 well into the 2030’s.

Why would Iran invest in a platform that cannot reliably deal with its neighbors?

Iran’s first and foremost need is a air superiority and interceptor fighter jet. That design hardly looks like that. Iran needs at least 100-150 fighters to compliment the F-14’s and defend Iranian assets and skies while the air defense systems back them up.

Iran doesn’t need fighter jets that can fly to and bomb Saudi Arabia or Israel. That’s what Iran’s BM and CM program are for.

So again a Iranian F-16 is not a design for the future. This isn’t the Mowj series you can’t just build one of them and continuing experimenting and making design changes.

US and Europe have luxury of time to upgrade their air forces. War with Russia or China is not likely this upcoming decade. Iran on the other hand could be subjected to war at any time in the next 20 years. So do not look to what your enemies are doing.

Iran is better off acquiring SU-30 license and learning the technologies that Russians deploy on their fighter jets and incorporating that into a future Iranian fighter jet that would enter service 2035-2040.
I did not write that Iran has to do an F-16, F-16 was just an example to show that an aircraft can still very well carry out its mission even if the original project has more than 40 years is enough to continue in the research and in the implementation of the new techniques and electronics found in new production aircraft and upgrade those already built.
Then the aircraft that appeared was not an F-16, so I was wondering how it can be said that it is 2nd generation, it could also be 4 ^ +
 

TheImmortal

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I did not write that Iran has to do an F-16, F-16 was just an example to show that an aircraft can still very well carry out its mission even if the original project has more than 40 years is enough to continue in the research and in the implementation of the new techniques and electronics found in new production aircraft and upgrade those already built.
Then the aircraft that appeared was not an F-16, so I was wondering how it can be said that it is 2nd generation, it could also be 4 ^ +
There is no way that is a 2nd generation fighter jet. As 2nd generation fighter jets are are considered 1950’s era aircraft. Anything at the minimum Iran produces would be considered 4th generation.

SU-35 in comparison is considered 4++ gen.

Nonetheless that design is already dated, I been seeing that fighter jet for last 12-15 years. It pre-dates Qaher. It would have been a logical step after Shafagh project way back when.

Iran is limited as it has to rely on 3rd gen Engines. So RD-33 is not powerful enough for a interceptor, but still better than a J-85. Iran needs something in the AL-31 class to build a true air defense fighter.

Ideally a heavy fighter that can house a long range low RCS detecting radar equipped with advanced EW/ECW suite alongside long range A2A missiles.

Anything else like close air support and bombers can wait for when Iran has a much stronger economy. But the air defense fighter is critical in protecting the skies and the AD systems.
 

ashool

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It’s funny they did the same “assembly line” propaganda videos with Saeghe I & II. They show you 6-8 planes in assembly line. Yet curious enough less than 12 Saeghe were ever built.

So how come they showed that many Saeghe in a production video?

Because propaganda. Same applies to Kowsar. No proof more than 1-2 Kowsar even exist to this day.

But please continue telling us how an F-4 will compete with SU-35/F-18/F-35/F-22.

You would take 7 Kowsar over a SU-35? Lol an SU-35 could take out those Kowsar without breaking a sweat.
excuse me general 4 stars its night and dark i cant see your stars who the hell are you .are you cammander in chif of a irif to show you what they build?

We don't really know how Iranian weapons function.

And hopefully we won't have to find out.

But an F-5 is an F-5.

At most with modern avionics and munitions the ceiling would be an F-20. (And even that had a modern turbofan)

Something the US had 40 years ago.

Let's be real here.

I commend Iran for the efforts.

But am also concerned at the massive conventional disparity between it and its antagonists.
lol why u writing comment usa knows f5 is best fighter in dog fight and disigen f20 and f18 0f f5 platform why you speak when you dont know any thing .u2 is from 50 years ago f18 and f16 40 years ago even f15 go read some info and then come speak
 

TruthHurtz

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excuse me general 4 stars its night and dark i cant see your stars who the hell are you .are you cammander in chif of a irif to show you what they build?


lol why u writing comment usa knows f5 is best fighter in dog fight and disigen f20 and f18 0f f5 platform why you speak when you dont know any thing .u2 is from 50 years ago f18 and f16 40 years ago even f15 go read some info and then come speak
 

Hassan Al-Somal

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100 Iranian SU-35’s flying in home territory (Iran) with S-300, Bacar 373, Khordads, etc backing up will be challenging to any adversary.
But who would guarantee in the event of a conflict that Iran finds itself in, that the computer systems of those SU-35 planes would continuously function without original makers or others sabotaging them? An indigenous Iranian fighter jet, while it is far less stealthy and less potent than the SU-35 today, at least alleviates that worry from Iranian leaders.

During the Gulf War II in 2003, for some reasons that haven't been explained, Iraqi SAMs stopped working in the 3rd week of the invasion. Who caused them to disfunction? I haven't seen any reports; however, sabotages and EW perhaps were clearly the reasons.

Indigenous weapons have advantages that more advanced, foreign-made weapons can't guarantee you in the event of a conflict: reliability.
 

TheImmortal

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But who would guarantee in the event of a conflict that Iran finds itself in, that the computer systems of those SU-35 planes would continuously function without original makers or others sabotaging them? An indigenous Iranian fighter jet, while it is far less stealthy and less potent than the SU-35 today, at least alleviates that worry from Iranian leaders.

During the Gulf War II in 2003, for some reasons that haven't been explained, Iraqi SAMs stopped working in the 3rd week of the invasion. Who caused them to disfunction? I haven't seen any reports; however, sabotages and EW perhaps were clearly the reasons.

Indigenous weapons have advantages that more advanced, foreign-made weapons can't guarantee you in the event of a conflict: reliability.
By that logic Iran’s S-300 system, Iran’s Tor-M1s, Iran’s Russian radars, Iran’s Russian systems, Iran’s Russian fighter jets are all compromised.

Give me a break, Saddam's AD system was garbage and antiquated. His AD system wouldn’t have been able to stop hundreds of cruise missile attacks.

Show me evidence that Russia compromised Saddam’s air defense systems.
 

gambit

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Give me a break, Saddam's AD system was garbage and antiquated. His AD system wouldn’t have been able to stop hundreds of cruise missile attacks.
Give me a break...And I am a DS veteran.

Back then, other than US, no one, and that includes the USSR and China, wanted to test Iraq's military. What made Iraq's air defense system failed was less technology than it was because of philosophy, organizational, and operations. In other words, it failed because it copied the Soviet/China system.
 

mohsen

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Give me a break...And I am a DS veteran.

Back then, other than US, no one, and that includes the USSR and China, wanted to test Iraq's military. What made Iraq's air defense system failed was less technology than it was because of philosophy, organizational, and operations. In other words, it failed because it copied the Soviet/China system.
It failed because for years, US was managing them, it failed because Iraqis were using NATO codes for communications.
Iraqis AD were defeated by their own foolishness to trust uncle sam.
 

PeeD

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Give me a break...And I am a DS veteran.

Back then, other than US, no one, and that includes the USSR and China, wanted to test Iraq's military. What made Iraq's air defense system failed was less technology than it was because of philosophy, organizational, and operations. In other words, it failed because it copied the Soviet/China system.
Their systems were on average 30 years older technology than what the U.S had, that was the key reason why they only shot down around 100 NATO aircraft before collapsing.
 

TheImmortal

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Give me a break...And I am a DS veteran.

Back then, other than US, no one, and that includes the USSR and China, wanted to test Iraq's military. What made Iraq's air defense system failed was less technology than it was because of philosophy, organizational, and operations. In other words, it failed because it copied the Soviet/China system.
Their systems were on average 30 years older technology than what the U.S had, that was the key reason why they only shot down around 100 NATO aircraft before collapsing.
Irrelevant points by both of you as the poster was referring to Iraqi Invasion 2003 not Gulf War I.

By 2003, Iraqi military was decimated and decrepit. Russia didn’t compromise Iraqi AD systems and US to this day hasn’t found a way to hack and compromise Russian AD systems.
 

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