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TruthHurtz

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The Fighter Plane Supports Kowsar is a wonderful advanced technology from Iran and this plane is very far from a joke. And this plane continues to improve as the F-4 SM. I like to have 5 to 7 Kowsar as 1 su-35 for the same price! Tactical side and power, it's better.

And let Iran work their heavy combat planes. I read this week that we will soon have news of the F-313. Let's wait for more ...
Kowsar is a joke because it isn't a new jet but an upgraded one from existing stockpiles. It doesn't even bear a superficial difference from the f-5 variant it's based on. Even previous designs such as Saeqeh have airframe alterations.
 
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Mr Iran Eye

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Kowsar is a joke because it isn't a new jet but an upgraded one from existing stockpiles. It doesn't even bear a superficial difference from the f-5 variant it's based on. Even previous designs such as Saeqeh have airframe alterations.

Absolutely wrong !!

The Kowsar is made of a new new cell based on the F5. The Kowsar is a great spectacular success by Iran under high sanction. New cockpit, new radar, new injectable seat, new engine made by Iran and even more

From this great achievement, Iran can improve this aircraft in constant ways. The Iranian authorities have said that for 1 year, there has been spectacular progress on this aircraft.

Yes it remains a modern aircraft of combat support. It will quickly move from generation 4 to 4+ and 4++

For the same price, I like 7 Kowsar better than a Su 35

The real joke are your comments, not the plane itself
 

TruthHurtz

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Absolutely wrong !!

The Kowsar is made of a new new cell based on the F5. The Kowsar is a great spectacular success by Iran under high sanction. New cockpit, new radar, new injectable seat, new engine made by Iran and even more

From this great achievement, Iran can improve this aircraft in constant ways. The Iranian authorities have said that for 1 year, there has been spectacular progress on this aircraft.

Yes it remains a modern aircraft of combat support. It will quickly move from generation 4 to 4+ and 4++

For the same price, I like 7 Kowsar better than a Su 35

The real joke are your comments, not the plane itself
Its literally just an old rusty f-5 taken from existing stockpiles and refitted with new avionics and some other things. it's not by any means a new aircraft manufactured from the bolt up like you think it is.
 

Hassan Al-Somal

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Embargo will be only lifted if Russia or China is willing to veto if the #West tries to renew it. The arms embargo on Somalia was expiring. They just renewed it, with both Russia and China abstaining. So for Iran, it is better to do the work now and make sure either China or Russia or both veto it in the event that the #West tries to renew it.

Iran will seek new fighter jets, tanks as 2020 embargo lifts
https://norfolkdailynews.com/news/n...cle_046d1d0a-0ba7-11ea-bb51-5f39fb4c5aab.html



yes SU-35 in ...... numbers if Russia honor deal and the paper which they have signed


but remember is big if here we talking about country called Russia with big track record of which everybody knows well
 
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TheImmortal

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TruthHurtz = Troll :cuckoo:

Iran Starts Producting Fourth-Generation Fighter Jet KOWSAR/

New cell

It’s funny they did the same “assembly line” propaganda videos with Saeghe I & II. They show you 6-8 planes in assembly line. Yet curious enough less than 12 Saeghe were ever built.

So how come they showed that many Saeghe in a production video?

Because propaganda. Same applies to Kowsar. No proof more than 1-2 Kowsar even exist to this day.

But please continue telling us how an F-4 will compete with SU-35/F-18/F-35/F-22.

You would take 7 Kowsar over a SU-35? Lol an SU-35 could take out those Kowsar without breaking a sweat.
 

arashkamangir

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It’s funny they did the same “assembly line” propaganda videos with Saeghe I & II. They show you 6-8 planes in assembly line. Yet curious enough less than 12 Saeghe were ever built.

So how come they showed that many Saeghe in a production video?

Because propaganda. Same applies to Kowsar. No proof more than 1-2 Kowsar even exist to this day.

But please continue telling us how an F-4 will compete with SU-35/F-18/F-35/F-22.

You would take 7 Kowsar over a SU-35? Lol an SU-35 could take out those Kowsar without breaking a sweat.
The problem is, training, readiness and tactics matter. Imagine a case where you have to compete against American pilots with 50-100 Su-30/35 or even better ... Unless Iran has worthy pilots, Iran wouldn't be able to utilize it's cutting edge assets to its full potential. Reality is, given the nature of recent wars, having high sortie rate deliver more bang for the buck. That is why I think we should maintain or produce cheap platforms that are simple to operate, simple to train and can increase sorties vs expensive platforms that require top of the line pilots to compete against USAF and US Navy pilots ... If Iran has money, it should of course invest in those planes and training but that is a much harder goal with current climate.

I think more comprehensive air defence systems plus cheap platforms that can launch advanced air to air missiles in addition to strikes and close air support deliver more bang for the buck given that the probability of air to air combat is lowered in the face of Iranian deterrence whereas attacking or supporting ground troops are a more likely scenario.
 

Sina-1

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The problem is, training, readiness and tactics matter. Imagine a case where you have to compete against American pilots with 50-100 Su-30/35 or even better ... Unless Iran has worthy pilots, Iran wouldn't be able to utilize it's cutting edge assets to its full potential. Reality is, given the nature of recent wars, having high sortie rate deliver more bang for the buck. That is why I think we should maintain or produce cheap platforms that are simple to operate, simple to train and can increase sorties vs expensive platforms that require top of the line pilots to compete against USAF and US Navy pilots ... If Iran has money, it should of course invest in those planes and training but that is a much harder goal with current climate.

I think more comprehensive air defence systems plus cheap platforms that can launch advanced air to air missiles in addition to strikes and close air support deliver more bang for the buck given that the probability of air to air combat is lowered in the face of Iranian deterrence whereas attacking or supporting ground troops are a more likely scenario.
Exactly! Avionics, EW capabilities and a potent weapons platform is much more crucial than mechanical beasts such as su35. All three of which Iran either is fielding or at least taken important steps towards.
 

Navigator

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Embargo will be only lifted if Russia or China is willing to veto if the #West tries to renew it. The arms embargo on Somalia was expiring. They just renewed it, with both Russia and China abstaining. So for Iran, it is better to do the work now and make sure either China or Russia or both veto it in the event that the #West tries to renew it.
In the case of Iranian sanction, the situation is another. On the one hand, it’s better since acc to resolution 2231 of the UNSC in support of the JCPOA, the arms sanctions should be lifted automatically on October 18, 2020. But on the other hand, in order for the sanctions to be lifted, it's imperative that the JCPOA must survives until the fall of next year. Otherwise, even Russia and China will not be able to block the return of sanctions.
In 2015, the Americans specifically enshrined the tricky condition in the text of the agreement that if one of the sides of the agreement states that JCPOA was violated and raises this question in the UNSC, then all international sanctions will be returned automatically if the UNSCl doesn't vote against return of sanctions. And the United States for sure willn't allow this if it comes to voting in the UNSC since veto power, while the veto power of Russia and China here does not mean anything
Since the United States has withdrawn from the agreement, they themselves cannot raise this issue now, Russia and China of course will not do this, but France and the United Kingdom remain the sides and the United States is now putting pressure on them.

11. Decides, acting under Article 41 of the Charter of the United Nations, that, within 30 days of receiving a notification by a JCPOA participant State of an issue that the JCPOA participant State believes constitutes significant non-performance of commitments under the JCPOA, it shall vote on a draft resolution to continue in effect the terminations in paragraph 7 (a) of this resolution, decides further that if, within 10 days of the notification referred to above, no Member of the Security Council has submitted such a draft resolution for a vote, then the President of the Security Council shall submit such a draft resolution and put it to a vote within 30 days of the notification referred to above, and expresses its intention to take into account the views of the States involved in the issue and any opinion on the issue by the Advisory Board established in the JCPOA;
12. Decides, acting under Article 41 of the Charter of the United Nations, that, if the Security Council does not adopt a resolution under paragraph 11 to continue in effect the terminations in paragraph 7 (a), then effective midnight Greenwich Mean Time after the thirtieth day after the notification to the Security Council described in paragraph 11, all of the provisions of resolutions 1696 (2006), 1737 (2006), 1747 (2007), 1803 (2008), 1835 (2008), and 1929 (2010) that have been terminated pursuant to paragraph 7 (a) shall apply in the same manner as they applied before the adoption of this resolution, and the measures contained in paragraphs 7, 8 and 16 to 20 of this resolution shall be terminated, unless the Security Council decides otherwise;

http://unscr.com/en/resolutions/doc/2231

According to some rumors, Russia and China were against this point, but Rouhani really wanted to make a deal in 2015 ..
 

Mr Iran Eye

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It’s funny they did the same “assembly line” propaganda videos with Saeghe I & II. They show you 6-8 planes in assembly line. Yet curious enough less than 12 Saeghe were ever built.

So how come they showed that many Saeghe in a production video?

Because propaganda. Same applies to Kowsar. No proof more than 1-2 Kowsar even exist to this day.

But please continue telling us how an F-4 will compete with SU-35/F-18/F-35/F-22.

You would take 7 Kowsar over a SU-35? Lol an SU-35 could take out those Kowsar without breaking a sweat.

What are you sick in your head? You make demagoguery and you would make the worst army general ever known in the world. The Kowsar is indeed a new plane whatever you say. Bravo Iran for this exceptional aircraft despite the heavy penalties

A Su-35 would win on 7 Kowsar in all directions? are you crazy ??? Yes, the Su-35 is a great and very powerful plane but you do not have to take your dreams for reality. It happens to you sometimes in your life to think well and not to use so much demagogy ??
 

TheImmortal

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A Su-35 would win on 7 Kowsar in all directions? are you crazy ??? Yes, the Su-35 is a great and very powerful plane but you do not have to take your dreams for reality. It happens to you sometimes in your life to think well and not to use so much demagogy ??
SU-35 Radar
It is capable of detecting an aerial target up to 400 km (250 mi; 220 nmi) away, and can track thirty airborne targets and engage eight of them simultaneously

F-5 Radar
The F-5E experienced numerous upgrades in its service life, with the most significant one being adopting a new planar array radar, Emerson AN/APQ-159 with a range of 20 nmi to replace the original AN/APQ-153.


Apparently you are too naive to understand F-5 is advanced trainer/light attack aircraft and SU-35 is an air superiority fighter. It’s like throwing IFVs at a tank. You can send 5 IFVs at a tank and the tank will still wipe them out cleanly.

A formation of F-5’s is no match for an SU-35 let alone two of them flying together.
 

Sina-1

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As a point of reference, the Gripen (similar weight class as F20, which itself is a derivative of f5), the older PS-05/A Mark 3 which was pulse Doppler radar, had a range of 120km. Mark 5 is an ASEA radar, but I couldn’t find any relevant spec on it. Highly likely that it’s far superior to the mark3.

Even if the range would be worse than super heavy fighters, it still means jack in defensive missions since the effective range is extended greatly by ground based radars through datalink.

EW is key. And I have strong reasons to believe that Iran has great card to play here (blink blink rq170 and global hawk take/shoot downs).
 

925boy

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Its literally just an old rusty f-5 taken from existing stockpiles and refitted with new avionics and some other things. it's not by any means a new aircraft manufactured from the bolt up like you think it is.
isnt this the same crap skeptics were saying about Bavar when comparing it to S300? but we know today Bavar is almost as good OR better than the S300.

It might look like an F5, but unless you believe like many on PDF who say Iranian upgrades are "fake"(which they arent) then you should probably lean on the side of caution and conclude that its better than it looks.

I will say this, Iranian weapons function much better than they "look".
 

Avicenna

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isnt this the same crap skeptics were saying about Bavar when comparing it to S300? but we know today Bavar is almost as good OR better than the S300.

It might look like an F5, but unless you believe like many on PDF who say Iranian upgrades are "fake"(which they arent) then you should probably lean on the side of caution and conclude that its better than it looks.

I will say this, Iranian weapons function much better than they "look".
We don't really know how Iranian weapons function.

And hopefully we won't have to find out.

But an F-5 is an F-5.

At most with modern avionics and munitions the ceiling would be an F-20. (And even that had a modern turbofan)

Something the US had 40 years ago.

Let's be real here.

I commend Iran for the efforts.

But am also concerned at the massive conventional disparity between it and its antagonists.
 

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