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Sina-1

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Iran will seek new fighter jets, tanks as 2020 embargo lifts
https://norfolkdailynews.com/news/n...cle_046d1d0a-0ba7-11ea-bb51-5f39fb4c5aab.html



yes SU-35 in ...... numbers if Russia honor deal and the paper which they have signed


but remember is big if here we talking about country called Russia with big track record of which everybody knows well
I’m tired of Iran’s constant repeating about Russia being unreliable on one hand and then at the same time showing signs to buy from Russian arm manufacturers.
Don’t do business with them if it’s such a inconvenience.

furthermore it would be a disgusting deal if Iran spent billions in buying hardware that would be sitting ducks the second Russia decides to halt maintenance.

defense can never be bought! Only foolish countries rely on other countries for their protection.
 

yavar

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I’m tired of Iran’s constant repeating about Russia being buy from Russian arm manufacturers.
Don’t do business with them if it’s such a inconvenience..
we have no choice when it comes to buying,
whether we buy or we don't
there is no what so ever point to buy Chinese crap or even European. we already have their level of technology,

so if we buy it has to be Russia because of techology, and it is only aircraft the Tank and rest is propeganda

there is no point to buy T50 because we won't be able to make and understand and have infrastructure for it.

it like jumping from high school to uni
 

sahureka2

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omissis......

defense can never be bought! Only foolish countries rely on other countries for their protection.
Yes, that's true, but to do this you need to have the skills to do what you need at home, or buy projects + the license and make every single bolt
 

Draco.IMF

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we have no choice when it comes to buying,
whether we buy or we don't
there is no what so ever point to buy Chinese crap or even European. we already have their level of technology,

so if we buy it has to be Russia because of techology, and it is only aircraft the Tank and rest is propeganda

there is no point to buy T50 because we won't be able to make and understand and have infrastructure for it.

it like jumping from high school to uni
@yavar Its more than enough if Iran is on T-90 technology level (better russian version not export version)
events in Syria has shown that T-90 is a beast on the field and sufficient against NATO

Even with sanctions lifting in 2020, I dont think Iran will get SU-35 technology, pressure from Israel will be to big..
 

Sina-1

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whether we buy or we don't
there is no what so ever point to buy Chinese crap or even European. we already have their level of technology,
It doesn’t matter who we buy from or the quality of the product. The issue I have is the act of buying a finished product. From a logical point of view you can never be truly independent if you are at the mercy of others when it comes to the most essential need of your country -> defense!


Yes, that's true, but to do this you need to have the skills to do what you need at home, or buy projects + the license and make every single bolt
Iran has the skills! It’s called engineering dadash! However Iran will never catch up if they don’t put in the hours and years to accumulate the experience needed for some key technologies, eg jet engines. That is something that can never be truly bought. Iran has a great base with mapna. Now they should build on that.

Hopefully Kowsar will be to the aero industry what Shahab3 was for the missile industry and enhanced Hawk was for the air defense industry. Start with baby step and then expand.
 

TheImmortal

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It doesn’t matter who we buy from or the quality of the product. The issue I have is the act of buying a finished product. From a logical point of view you can never be truly independent if you are at the mercy of others when it comes to the most essential need of your country -> defense!




Iran has the skills! It’s called engineering dadash! However Iran will never catch up if they don’t put in the hours and years to accumulate the experience needed for some key technologies, eg jet engines. That is something that can never be truly bought. Iran has a great base with mapna. Now they should build on that.

Hopefully Kowsar will be to the aero industry what Shahab3 was for the missile industry and enhanced Hawk was for the air defense industry. Start with baby step and then expand.
Kowsar is a joke. Please do not compare it to the Shahab-3.

F-5 clone is still an F-5. Modernizing a peykan still won’t make it able to compete against a Ferrari.

Also Iran needs a fast interceptor since it will be waging a defensive war. F-5 is not an interceptor.

interceptor and light attack fighter are two very different class fighters with different technological requirements.
 

Sina-1

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Kowsar is a joke
Here are some more “jokes” for you! Each one of these eventually either iterated to respected finished products or were a good starting point for what would come decades after.
Ps. Shahab3 was actually considered a joke with terrible CEP when it first entered.
Pss. There is no way you can judge if the kowsar (the trainer) is a failed project or not.

upload_2019-11-23_21-23-4.jpeg

upload_2019-11-23_21-24-5.jpeg

upload_2019-11-23_21-25-46.jpeg
 

TheImmortal

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Here are some more “jokes” for you! Each one of these eventually either iterated to respected finished products or were a good starting point for what would come decades after.
Ps. Shahab3 was actually considered a joke with terrible CEP when it first entered.
Pss. There is no way you can judge if the kowsar (the trainer) is a failed project or not.

View attachment 591310
View attachment 591311
View attachment 591312
Dude you have no idea what you are talking about.

The first picture you use to support your argument is a special forces underwater transport pod. Has nothing to do with Iran’s submarine development program.

And no one thought S-3 was a joke considering it was based on the HIGHLY successful Soviet era SCUD design. So again what are you talking about?

Go compare how many engineers are in Iran’s missile development field to how many engineers are in Iran’s Air Force aerospace engineering field.

Iran’s missile program receives BILLIONS a year in funding. The ENTIRE Air Force budget is suspected to be less than $500 million dollars a year.

So yes Kowsar is a joke and has been a joke since 1997 when the program started. There’s literally less than 40 “clones” (probably closer to 24) developed in 20 years.

Bavar-373 was created in 10 years, 22 years after the start of the F-5 cloning program Iran is still no where close to being able to field a true 5th gen fighter or even a 4th gen heavy fighter.
 

Sina-1

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Dude you have no idea what you are talking about.
Drop the fckn douche bag attitude! My point is that if Iran really has billions to waste on foreign defense products then that money is better used in our own defense industry. And yes I am 100% confident that with the right amount support, manpower and management, Iran will kill it in the aero sector as well.
 

TheImmortal

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Drop the fckn douche bag attitude! My point is that if Iran really has billions to waste on foreign defense products then that money is better used in our own defense industry. And yes I am 100% confident that with the right amount support, manpower and management, Iran will kill it in the aero sector as well.
Again spoken like a true ignorant nationalist.

The cost of research and development for a fighter jet is tens of billions of dollars EXCLUDING procurement cost and maintenance cost.

If you weren’t so ignorant, you would know that Iran’s Air Force is HIGHLY conservative and would rather go with a PROVEN design with DECADES of track record then throw 30 Billion into a project and GET NOTHING. (See India’s Tejas project as example)

Go look at how many fighter projects HAVE FAILED. Japan, India, Israel, even USA/Russia all come to mind. All are way more advanced than Iran in that field and all have way more money than Iran to throw at such projects.

China built its first planes from license and its first engines from license. In this day and age building a modern fighter jet with ZERO FOREIGN PARTS, is simply too cost prohibitive without a massive industrial base.

Iran has NO industrial base set up specifically for a mass production of fighter jets. Again if you bothered to do research you would know this.

So when Iran is faced with a scenario of $10 Billion dollars for a SU-30 license for 150+ aircraft or $10 billion dollars for a project that may never yield a competent fighter jet WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WILL SELECT?

I mean seriously you can’t be this kos maghz. You are expecting way too much out of a $400B dollar economy.
 

Sina-1

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Again spoken like a true ignorant nationalist.

The cost of research and development for a fighter jet is tens of billions of dollars EXCLUDING procurement cost and maintenance cost.

If you weren’t so ignorant, you would know that Iran’s Air Force is HIGHLY conservative and would rather go with a PROVEN design with DECADES of track record then throw 30 Billion into a project and GET NOTHING. (See India’s Tejas project as example)

Go look at how many fighter projects HAVE FAILED. Japan, India, Israel, even USA/Russia all come to mind. All are way more advanced than Iran in that field and all have way more money than Iran to throw at such projects.

China built its first planes from license and its first engines from license. In this day and age building a modern fighter jet with ZERO FOREIGN PARTS, is simply too cost prohibitive without a massive industrial base.

Iran has NO industrial base set up specifically for a mass production of fighter jets. Again if you bothered to do research you would know this.

So when Iran is faced with a scenario of $10 Billion dollars for a SU-30 license for 150+ aircraft or $10 billion dollars for a project that may never yield a competent fighter jet WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WILL SELECT?

I mean seriously you can’t be this kos maghz. You are expecting way too much out of a $400B dollar economy.
Kam avordi baz? Resorting to profanities and gibberish shows how weak minded you are! Go waste someone else’s time!
 

TheImmortal

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Kam avordi baz? Resorting to profanities and gibberish shows how weak minded you are! Go waste someone else’s time!
Vaghean olaghi. How about you check who started using profanities first.

To ye dahati hasti dadash. I pointed numerous examples in my initial argument and you had no rebuttal rather than “I believe...”. No one cares what you believe. Iranian military doesn’t make their decisions on what you believe. They are a logical organization like any other entity on the planet.

This discussion is over.
 

Mr Iran Eye

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The Fighter Plane Supports Kowsar is a wonderful advanced technology from Iran and this plane is very far from a joke. And this plane continues to improve as the F-4 SM. I like to have 5 to 7 Kowsar as 1 su-35 for the same price! Tactical side and power, it's better.

And let Iran work their heavy combat planes. I read this week that we will soon have news of the F-313. Let's wait for more ...
 

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