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VEVAK

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Oct 24, 2013
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How would a S-191 detect this in the cover of night in a heavy shipping lane?

View attachment 732134

Also using Artesh which isn’t its responsibility he defending Iranian paramilitary ships far outside is borders to “shield” IRGC from blame game is an absurd idea.

IRGC gets blamed if a cloud goes the wrong way in the sky in Israel. So it quite literally means nothing if they continue the shadow war that Israel STARTED...seems some of you forget Israel has been hitting dozens of ships and Iran hasn’t really responded until that Wall Street journal article leaked Israeli sea operations.
Simple, you don't target them! Instead you target what ever vessel they came from (If feasible ) & or whatever port that vessel was launch from (If possible) or at least have clear evidence of who launched the attack and respond in kind by hitting a lightly armed logistical ship!
With clear video evidence, you can respond by using the Sh-191 to target their logistical ships!

Even if they where launched by a sub, they would have to be launched from within a few klicks of the vessel and the vessel should of had enough unmanned systems (Air, Surface & Subsurface) to at least follow them back and collect target data on where they came from...
The true value is being able to collect the correct targeting data so you can give your commanders the option to respond quickly, if commanded! & no doubt the Saviz captain wouldn't risk going head to head against a torpedo armed sub solely on his own judgment but you still need to give your commanders the option....
If it was me, and the choice was made to retaliate I would do the same thing they did in terms of the type of target they chose. I would launch Sh-191 against their logistical assets at sea.

Iranian elections are coming and the IRGC needs to keep it's cool and not fall for a clearly laid out trap! The Israelis for whatever reason are doing their upmost to provoke the IRGC to respond.
The IRGC needs to think why now? And what do they hope to gain? And think about and plan for consequences well in advance of any retaliatory op...

I think the best response now is to leave the NPT and stop all talks and negotiations with the IAEA and start full scale nuclear weapons program + greatly increase your ability to launched armed UCAV's & LACM from Naval vessels + greatly increase defense expenditure

However should Iran decide to respond militarily the response needs to be a joint op and at least publicly, the Artesh should lead the op!
 

TheImmortal

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Simple, you don't target them! Instead you target what ever vessel they came from (If feasible ) & or whatever port that vessel was launch from (If possible) or at least have clear evidence of who launched the attack and respond in kind by hitting a lightly armed logistical ship!
With clear video evidence, you can respond by using the Sh-191 to target their logistical ships!

Even if they where launched by a sub, they would have to be launched from within a few klicks of the vessel and the vessel should of had enough unmanned systems (Air, Surface & Subsurface) to at least follow them back and collect target data on where they came from...
The true value is being able to collect the correct targeting data so you can give your commanders the option to respond quickly, if commanded! & no doubt the Saviz captain wouldn't risk going head to head against a torpedo armed sub solely on his own judgment but you still need to give your commanders the option....
If it was me, and the choice was made to retaliate I would do the same thing they did in terms of the type of target they chose. I would launch Sh-191 against their logistical assets at sea.

Iranian elections are coming and the IRGC needs to keep it's cool and not fall for a clearly laid out trap! The Israelis for whatever reason are doing their upmost to provoke the IRGC to respond.
The IRGC needs to think why now? And what do they hope to gain? And think about and plan for consequences well in advance of any retaliatory op...

I think the best response now is to leave the NPT and stop all talks and negotiations with the IAEA and start full scale nuclear weapons program + greatly increase your ability to launched armed UCAV's & LACM from Naval vessels + greatly increase defense expenditure

However should Iran decide to respond militarily the response needs to be a joint op and at least publicly, the Artesh should lead the op!
If Iran can attack ships in the PG which is monitored 24/7 by US/Israel/NATO....what makes you think Iran can monitor and detect in Red Sea?

Traffic is heavy and any civilian ship can be carrying commandos

1618327566438.png


You won’t be able to detect a simple night time commando raid in such congested waters.
 

Stryker1982

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If Iran can attack ships in the PG which is monitored 24/7 by US/Israel/NATO....what makes you think Iran can monitor and detect in Red Sea?

Traffic is heavy and any civilian ship can be carrying commandos

View attachment 733718

You won’t be able to detect a simple night time commando raid in such congested waters.
I'm still trying to figure out how they manage to hit the ship in the Indian ocean.
 

EvilWesteners

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For whatever the reason (which I cannot figure out, even asking my military friends who are very verse in military and in particular Navy war strategies and tactics), U.S. seems particularly WORRIED about these vessels.

I am sure they will not be any better than Tuo Chiang-class corvette, so why Americans worried so much, they cannot stop talking about in all the U.S. military website I am part of? Yes, it is possibly expected that it will have SAM as well as SSM. But why this level of concern by professionals who usually dismiss everything Iran builds?

One possible theory would be that - they regard this class of ship as a game-changer for Iran's future naval doctrine (not necessarily the vessel itself). May be so, but still too early to be this concerned. They must know something. These vessels are not made of composites. They are made of aluminum. So, it is interesting to see and understand in the future why U.S. is concerned to this degree about these vessels.
 

PeeD

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For whatever the reason (which I cannot figure out, even asking my military friends who are very verse in military and in particular Navy war strategies and tactics), U.S. seems particularly WORRIED about these vessels.

I am sure they will not be any better than Tuo Chiang-class corvette, so why Americans worried so much, they cannot stop talking about in all the U.S. military website I am part of? Yes, it is possibly expected that it will have SAM as well as SSM. But why this level of concern by professionals who usually dismiss everything Iran builds?

One possible theory would be that - they regard this class of ship as a game-changer for Iran's future naval doctrine (not necessarily the vessel itself). May be so, but still too early to be this concerned. They must know something. These vessels are not made of composites. They are made of aluminum. So, it is interesting to see and understand in the future why U.S. is concerned to this degree about these vessels.
Fix a 105km range 3rd Khordad TELAR on that helipad and you give a fast blue water vessel a scary long range anti-air ambush capability ;)
+ other modular options
 

EvilWesteners

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Fix a 105km range 3rd Khordad TELAR on that helipad and you give a fast blue water vessel a scary long range anti-air ambush capability ;)
+ other modular options
You are, of course, correct. But I haven't seen the Americans this nervous before about something Iran is building. They do have "answers" for such platforms. But they seem to feel this is something worrying. They are really getting their nickers in a twist over it. I am waiting to find out why.
 

aryobarzan

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You are, of course, correct. But I haven't seen the Americans this nervous before about something Iran is building. They do have "answers" for such platforms. But they seem to feel this is something worrying. They are really getting their nickers in a twist over it. I am waiting to find out why.
I tend to agree with PeeD . This ship will bring irgc out of the Persian Gulf and into the green/blue waters..add to that the near future irgac subs and you have a threat that they did not plan for..
 

TheImmortal

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For whatever the reason (which I cannot figure out, even asking my military friends who are very verse in military and in particular Navy war strategies and tactics), U.S. seems particularly WORRIED about these vessels.

I am sure they will not be any better than Tuo Chiang-class corvette, so why Americans worried so much, they cannot stop talking about in all the U.S. military website I am part of? Yes, it is possibly expected that it will have SAM as well as SSM. But why this level of concern by professionals who usually dismiss everything Iran builds?

One possible theory would be that - they regard this class of ship as a game-changer for Iran's future naval doctrine (not necessarily the vessel itself). May be so, but still too early to be this concerned. They must know something. These vessels are not made of composites. They are made of aluminum. So, it is interesting to see and understand in the future why U.S. is concerned to this degree about these vessels.
Shahid Solemani has a low RCS + not yet revealed supersonic CM iran has built will make reaction time for a allied vessel in PG or Arabian Sea less than a few mins before impact.

Iran has tested US destroyer reaction time to C-704 in Yemen conflict under Obama as base line test.

You are about to see how vulnerable these billion dollar US cruisers truly.
 

sahureka2

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Jamaran and Sahand side by side, are perfectly equal in length, but the differences of the superstructures, the flight deck etc. can be compared. also note a more forward positioning of the Fajr-27 in the Sahand

 

Hashirama

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Shahid Solemani has a low RCS + not yet revealed supersonic CM iran has built will make reaction time for a allied vessel in PG or Arabian Sea less than a few mins before impact.

Iran has tested US destroyer reaction time to C-704 in Yemen conflict under Obama as base line test.

You are about to see how vulnerable these billion dollar US cruisers truly.
Do you have any info about iranian supersonic cm ?
 

TheImmortal

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Oldman1

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(CNN) —
The US government believes that Iran is behind a series of increasingly sophisticated rocket attacks on joint US-Iraq military facilities in Iraq, several US officials tell CNN. The attacks have taken place as the US has grown increasingly concerned that Iran may be planning new provocations against US troops and interests in the region.

The US military strongly believes Iranian-backed groups inside Iraq are responsible according to a US official with direct knowledge of the recent incidents.

There have been nine rocket attacks on or in the vicinity of Iraqi facilities that host US troops in the last five weeks with the most recent one taking place on Monday.


(Reuters) - In mid-October, Iranian Major-General Qassem Soleimani met with his Iraqi Shi’ite militia allies at a villa on the banks of the Tigris River, looking across at the U.S. embassy complex in Baghdad.


The Revolutionary Guards commander instructed his top ally in Iraq, Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, and other powerful militia leaders to step up attacks on U.S. targets in the country using sophisticated new weapons provided by Iran, two militia commanders and two security sources briefed on the gathering told Reuters.

The strategy session, which has not been previously reported, came as mass protests against Iran’s growing influence in Iraq were gaining momentum, putting the Islamic Republic in an unwelcome spotlight. Soleimani’s plans to attack U.S. forces aimed to provoke a military response that would redirect that rising anger toward the United States, according to the sources briefed on the gathering, Iraqi Shi’ite politicians and government officials close to Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi.

Soleimani’s efforts ended up provoking the U.S. attack on Friday that killed him and Muhandis, marking a major escalation of tensions between the United States and Iran. The two men died in air strikes on their convoy at a Baghdad airport as they headed to the capital, dealing a major blow to the Islamic Republic and the Iraqi paramilitary groups it supports.

Interviews with the Iraqi security sources and Shi’ite militia commanders offer a rare glimpse of how Soleimani operated in Iraq, which he once told a Reuters reporter he knew like the back of his hand.


Two weeks before the October meeting, Soleimani ordered Iranian Revolutionary Guards to move more sophisticated weapons - such as Katyusha rockets and shoulder-fired missiles that could bring down helicopters - to Iraq through two border crossings, the militia commanders and Iraqi security sources told Reuters.

At the Baghdad villa, Soleimani told the assembled commanders to form a new militia group of low-profile paramilitaries - unknown to the United States - who could carry out rocket attacks on Americans housed at Iraqi military bases. He ordered Kataib Hezbollah - a force founded by Muhandis and trained in Iran - to direct the new plan, said the militia sources briefed on the meetings.

Soleimani told them such a group “would be difficult to detect by the Americans,” one of the militia sources told Reuters.

Before the attacks, the U.S. intelligence community had reason to believe that Soleimani was involved in “late stage” planning to strike Americans in multiple countries, including Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, U.S. officials told Reuters Friday on condition of anonymity. One senior U.S. official said Soleimani had supplied advanced weaponry to Kataib Hezbollah.

PICKING U.S. TARGETS WITH DRONES
The United States has grown increasingly concerned about Iran’s influence over the ruling elite in Iraq, which has been beset for months by protesters who accuse the government of enriching itself and serving the interests of foreign powers, especially Iran, as Iraqis languish in poverty without jobs or basic services.


Soleimani, leader of the Revolutionary Guards’ Quds Force, was instrumental in expanding Iran’s military influence in the Middle East as the operative who handles clandestine operations outside Iran. The 62-year-old general was regarded as the second-most powerful figure in Iran after Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Muhandis, a former Iraqi lawmaker, oversaw Iraq’s Popular Mobilization Forces (PMF), an umbrella grouping of paramilitary forces mostly consisting of Iran-backed Shi’ite militias that was formally integrated into Iraq’s armed forces.

Muhandis, like Soleimani, had long been on the radar of the United States, which had declared Muhandis a terrorist. In 2007, a Kuwaiti court sentenced him to death in absentia for his involvement in the 1983 U.S. and French embassy bombings in Kuwait.

Soleimani picked Kataib Hezbollah to lead the attacks on U.S. forces in the region because it had the capability to use drones to scout targets for Katyusha rocket attacks, one of the militia commanders told Reuters. Among the weapons that Soleimani’s forces supplied to its Iraqi militia allies last fall was a drone Iran had developed that could elude radar systems, the militia commanders said.
 

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