• Saturday, January 18, 2020

Iranian navy future frigate, mowj 6

Discussion in 'Iranian Defence Forum' started by ilia, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. sahureka2

    sahureka2 FULL MEMBER

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    why calculate 96 x 4 = 384 ?
     
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  2. Messerschmitt

    Messerschmitt FULL MEMBER

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    Yes I do realize that but I also do realize that we have absolutely no information about the type, size and weight of the missiles used on the ship, so judging the overall weight simply by comparing the number of missiles used on both ships in insufficient.
     
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  3. dBSPL

    dBSPL FULL MEMBER

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    Theoretical calculation, western standard point defense or short-to-mid defense missiles are mostly being installed as a quad pack, on Mk41 or Sylver variants.
     
  4. sahureka2

    sahureka2 FULL MEMBER

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    ok, but it is not certain that the Iranians adopt the same system, they could only be single wells.
    Therefore it would be more appropriate to calculate 96, which in any case are many, but even in this case we would first want to know what kind of missile will be used in the VLS, maybe soon we will have to answer when it will be possible to see the VLS of the "Dena"
     
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  5. Sina-1

    Sina-1 FULL MEMBER

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    That’s brilliant! Trimarans have bigger deck space but much less under-deck storage. Removes reloading complexity as well!
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
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  6. zectech

    zectech SENIOR MEMBER

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    Without given the specs, the hull of the ship is unorthodox, stealth like, making the ship wider than normal 3000t ships.

    [​IMG]

    The frigate on the right is lacking huge part of the hull. That is making what should be a 4500t ship by standard measurements into a 3000t ship (my guess, I do not have the specs). From initial reports, the mowj 6 is made for anti-submarine role (2 helicopters) and AShM role, with air defense too. Those VLS still do seem small and packed together even with this attempt at an explanation.

    Do a helicopter size overlay on the VLS of the mowj 6 frigate and the 64 front VLS for the cruiser in this photo:

    [​IMG]

    They are not far off. So they can have a large VLS on the mowj 6, though 96 seems rather much.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  7. Sineva

    Sineva FULL MEMBER

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    I`d say that conceptually its actually much closer to this one...
    [​IMG]
    .....the new chinese frigate design,except of course the iranian design is probably at least 500+ tons heavier,not to mention that judging by,on the model at least,both the radar set up [2 sets of aesa radars,possibly s+x band similar to the B373 perhaps?] and the large number of vls cells carried,that the iranian one clearly looks optimised for air defence,tho I imagine that the loadout and the number of the vls packs can be rearranged depending on the mission.
    Ultimately tho,we still have yet to see both the navies new vls and a new naval sam system[hopefully] to go with it,so I think that its probably best to withold final judgement until then.However based on the model at least it certainly looks to have all of the features that one would expect of a very modern design,which is good to see.
    https://www.popsci.com/chinas-new-triple-hulled-warship/
     
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  8. Sina-1

    Sina-1 FULL MEMBER

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    I have thought about why they are not producing this under a new ship class. Even though it has nothing in common with a mowj ships (it’s a freakin trimaran with twice the weight!)

    I think it is completely political. Navy got a budget for 6 mowj ships. Now they know it is a hassle to get approval for yet a new class so they are producing it under the mowj flag. They’re probably going to go over budget but the politicians will at that point be forced to finance the project since the 6th mowj must be delivered. If the ship is a success then it will get a new class and long order list.

    Also Hossein Khanzadi seems to be a visionary and a stone cold pragmatic. He aims high but gets the work done as well, even if it means he gets his own hands dirty. As he did when he volunteered to Captain the first missile launching hovercraft, to prove his skeptics wrong.
     
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  9. Sineva

    Sineva FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]
    A nice side view.
     
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  10. ANMDT

    ANMDT PROFESSIONAL

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    I think it can be considered even a raw concept, will grow into a conceptual design ,and then the feasibility assessment will lead to what we call prelimineary design hasn't been assessed yet.
    I dont quite believe it has came from hands of an engineer,but it was rather an artist who had put things on the vessel.
    It is a trimaran, the more hulls are not always the better, especially in severe seas a trimaran like this can be barely operational. It looks quite well equipped but not spacious, there are bunch of guns, state of art radars thus it will require at least 60-80 of crew, considering the current space it doesnt seem possible. The vessel should be highly automated to achieve all those which currently even US couldnt have achieved it.

    Above mentioned, that trimarans are good for cases you need high speed but low maneuverability (depends on configuration,and the reason why water jets are used there), considering it is meant for gulf (since it may not be effective in open seas) they will soon switch to monohulls (hopefully). Advantage of a trimaran is large flight deck and high modularity (which is not applied to this design), applying it to a heavily armed frigate may end quite sad. If it has meant to high speed,then they should have pointed ASMs toward the fore.

    I loved design of the supper structure , switching to monohull and applying the same design lines would end up with a great ship. But VLS will not fit the current hull if they are sticking to have a truly trimaran ship, the main hull will be too narrow or they wont able to fit more than 3-4 meters of VL tubes. If main hull gets wider then tri hull would be pointless.

    If there is an engineer who is really desiring to have a trimaran design,he can guide his desires onto design of a FAC, like indonesian one. The hangar doors are not practical in anyway and it wont save much RCS as they thought. Moreover, designing such a trimaran may require fine skills on aliminum welding,extruding and making use of those in shipbuilding,it may be challenging.

    I would be delighted to see how nicely those sonars (either towed or attached to fore-bottom) will operate. Along with gas turbines, wave piercing form and waterjets at the aft, neither towed or bow sonar might be effective thus the ship will entirely rely on helicopters for ASM targets. AShM could be useful but iran doesnt need an AShM ship in the gulf, this rather looks like a new concept,fast and self capable area denial vessel to be placed in front with strong self-defence tools (4 ciws is pretty much) even to protect smaller vessels around it.
    I dont quite agree on that, Iranian trimaran is closer to LCS design than of chinese one. Chinese one uses extra hull attachments to enlarge the hangar and helipad, Iranian design extends trimaran to starting point of supper structure makes it similar to Independence.
    Chinese one is what will be used in future by many navies,with a main hull with conventional form and extra hulls for larger helipad and hangar, by trading off efficiency,simplicity and manevuarability
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  11. ANMDT

    ANMDT PROFESSIONAL

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    Trade off the range, trade off space for crew and trade off modular stern deck /hangar then you can fit those 96 VLS without any reloading. This ship in my opinion isnt planned for operation far from homeland,it can sprint back,get reloaded and get back into stage (based on my readings of their minds :) will operate as a FAC like air defence frigate)
    Displacement isnt the driving dimension for fitting VLS but its space under the deck,effective deck area/depth and width.
    The trimaran (iranian one ) looks to have a smaller helipad almost in the size of vessel you have attached (Ticenderoga class).
    For independence the helipad and the volume (bay) under that is quite precious for modularity and variety of missions. (multi mission bay). thus the helipad is at least large as 26 meters, the iranian one seems to be around of 17-19 meters (judging from hangar doors and assuming them to be wide as universal ones might extend up to 22)

    They have traded off many features of a trimaran and fitted those VLS just on a raw conceptual design more likely drawn by an artist by directions of an admiral,thus still it is not a feasible design and have abnormalites ( quite usual and common to happen,you would laugh off if you have seen earlier stages of most design of destroyers)
     
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  12. ilia

    ilia FULL MEMBER

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    instasize_191201172649-1.png S
     
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  13. TruthHurtz

    TruthHurtz BANNED

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  14. Sina-1

    Sina-1 FULL MEMBER

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    Iran is admittedly not a naval power. However Iran has an extensive experience and nowadays variety when it comes to missiles, radars, air-defence systems, cruise missiles and drones. What this concept shows is that the ships shape and configuration is heavily influenced by the type of weapons Iran has in its arsenal. In contrast to the earlier mowj variants when the hull was prepared and then stuffed with whatever was available.

    So you can either view Irans status as inexperienced or you could view at as not bound to legacy and thus free to go for unconventional designs.
     
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  15. PeeD

    PeeD FULL MEMBER

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    @ANMDT

    The Iranian trimaran design is more or less the final design. Hull is already the result of hydrodynamic testing, it won't change much.
    Nor is U.S size VLS relevant for Irans role of a VLS system.
     
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