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Darius77

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Russia is a not a dependable partner. It stiffed Iran for 10 years over the antiquated S-300 and the Zionists have too much control over Putin as the regular Israeli strikes on Syria have amply demonstrated.

Iran should be seriously looking at Chinese J-10B which is adequate for its localized needs, considering the robust missile capability. Iran is now quite well integrated with Chinese economic and geo-strategic initiatives like the One Belt, so broadening a alliance with PRC should be logical focus. Also strengtheing defence ties with DPRK should be a priority. Iran has enough experience in aircraft overhauling to come up with a medium to heavyweight twin engined fighter in the F-14 class but with 4th gen avionics and weaponry.
 

VEVAK

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I believe the Airforce don't want Su-30 and there is no serious talk about that airplane at all

for that you must pour money in research and developement and I yet to see that .and honestly before we master the needed technology such how to build the needed alloy how to manage advance methalorgy in industrial scale , how to build a reliable long lasting engine its a mute point working on a heavy airplane

they lack the necessary funding to do so. by the way its not airforce duty to build the fighter and necessary technology its defense ministry and SAMT ministry duty to do that
NO I believe it's the Air Forces responsibility to use MOD companies to come up with a viable prototype then it would be the MOD's responsibility to take it into production!
The navy did the same and pushed for what they wanted! IRGC did and does the same on many of their weapons! They made it happen and even when the MOD came up short they went at it alone!

As for the required metallurgy I totally agree we need large industries to get going but the fact is when there isn't a particularly need for a certain strategic alloy other than in the Air force without a large government contract backing it, it be rather impossible to get private funding to fund it. But you don't need to mass produce anything for a prototype!
 

Hack-Hook

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NO I believe it's the Air Forces responsibility to use MOD companies to come up with a viable prototype then it would be the MOD's responsibility to take it into production!
The navy did the same and pushed for what they wanted! IRGC did and does the same on many of their weapons! They made it happen and even when the MOD came up short they went at it alone!

As for the required metallurgy I totally agree we need large industries to get going but the fact is when there isn't a particularly need for a certain strategic alloy other than in the Air force without a large government contract backing it, it be rather impossible to get private funding to fund it. But you don't need to mass produce anything for a prototype!
those alloy can be used in building better ship and submarine , they can be used to build better equipment for refineries and our industrial bases
 

VEVAK

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those alloy can be used in building better ship and submarine , they can be used to build better equipment for refineries and our industrial bases
Not really! On fighters you substitute strength with weight reduction using Ti and on Jet engines you require alloys that can be air cooled and operate at much higher temperatures and are much lighter.
While on Subs and Ships the preference is strength...!
Sure you can build your artillery and few other equipment out of Ti to reduce weight but it's not a needed on frames(Hull or Deck)
Not saying Ti isn't used just that it's not a necessity and there are other composite that can instead be used on other parts for weight reduction that Iran already has access too... Plus Ti comes in various grades and at at various compositions so it's not as simple as just producing ti... Plus Ti for aircraft need to be compressed and treated and you would require specific tools just for that....

Higher grade Nickle to build your shafts could help on both industries but to build good ships and subs more than anything else you need good steel! And Iran is among the top 10 steel producers in the world so we can work with what we got!


You have to understand that the most expensive part in producing a prototype IS NOT the alloy requirement! The most expensive part for an organization that already has 90% of the tools would be human resources! NOT alloys! And that puts Iran in a great position to conduct detailed and advanced R&D into an advanced fighter prototype (Airframe) and it's true that the airframe is the most expensive part of any fighter but the high cost isn't due to the alloys but due to the human resources (Paychecks). So for Iran's Air Force, lack of funding is nothing but an excuse!
 

aryobarzan

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@VEVAK or any one who knows....Few years back Iran bought some (50!)Engines for MIG29's I remember Putin came and the order was signed...Why not buy Engines only for Iran's future heavy fighter from Russia (with legal promise not the reverse engineer) and prototype few airframes with that engine...When Iranian engines of the same power become available.. go to full production..I know this all in reverse order (because you usually build the airframe around the engine) but may be they can do this time to save development time...lets say $5 million per engine and ask for 15 engines..that is $75 million..affordable in my books..lol
 

Hack-Hook

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@VEVAK or any one who knows....Few years back Iran bought some (50!)Engines for MIG29's I remember Putin came and the order was signed...Why not buy Engines only for Iran's future heavy fighter from Russia (with legal promise not the reverse engineer) and prototype few airframes with that engine...When Iranian engines of the same power become available.. go to full production..I know this all in reverse order (because you usually build the airframe around the engine) but may be they can do this time to save development time...lets say $5 million per engine and ask for 15 engines..that is $75 million..affordable in my books..lol
Because we really didnt buy those engines . it was only talk about buying engines.
 

Hack-Hook

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Not really! On fighters you substitute strength with weight reduction using Ti and on Jet engines you require alloys that can be air cooled and operate at much higher temperatures and are much lighter.
While on Subs and Ships the preference is strength...!
Sure you can build your artillery and few other equipment out of Ti to reduce weight but it's not a needed on frames(Hull or Deck)
Not saying Ti isn't used just that it's not a necessity and there are other composite that can instead be used on other parts for weight reduction that Iran already has access too... Plus Ti comes in various grades and at at various compositions so it's not as simple as just producing ti... Plus Ti for aircraft need to be compressed and treated and you would require specific tools just for that....

Higher grade Nickle to build your shafts could help on both industries but to build good ships and subs more than anything else you need good steel! And Iran is among the top 10 steel producers in the world so we can work with what we got!


You have to understand that the most expensive part in producing a prototype IS NOT the alloy requirement! The most expensive part for an organization that already has 90% of the tools would be human resources! NOT alloys! And that puts Iran in a great position to conduct detailed and advanced R&D into an advanced fighter prototype (Airframe) and it's true that the airframe is the most expensive part of any fighter but the high cost isn't due to the alloys but due to the human resources (Paychecks). So for Iran's Air Force, lack of funding is nothing but an excuse!
The fastest military submarine ever built was Alfa class submarine . they were so fast that they could outrun enemy naval vessels while submerged . their prototype speed was more than 80km and the final design had a speed of around 75 km and while they were submerged at 400m and they could reach top speed in just one minute and could reverse 180 degree at full speed in just 40 second.
You might be intrested to knew their hull was made of titanium.
Titanium is not favored because its only light . its light and tough at the same time.
 

Stryker1982

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If their is any administration for IRan to have a war with, the best one would be against Sleepy, weak Biden.
 

Shawnee

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If their is any administration for IRan to have a war with, the best one would be against Sleepy, weak Biden.
The so called “ sleepy Joe” or “creepy Joe” was Trumpeteer tactic of winning the election and did not work.

Biden has different priorities and prefers well being of US people to ANY war.

No body has described Trump better than Jimmy Kimmel with his incisive lines.

 
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VEVAK

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The fastest military submarine ever built was Alfa class submarine . they were so fast that they could outrun enemy naval vessels while submerged . their prototype speed was more than 80km and the final design had a speed of around 75 km and while they were submerged at 400m and they could reach top speed in just one minute and could reverse 180 degree at full speed in just 40 second.
You might be intrested to knew their hull was made of titanium.
Titanium is not favored because its only light . its light and tough at the same time.
You sitting 70's era tech and a sub that despite having such an expensive hall and nuclear propulsion hasn't stood the test of time and every single one of them have gotten retired VS lets say the Kilo at approximately the same size and half the speed that's still being produced today.... why do you think that is? There is no reason for us to follow the mistakes of others!

Ti has various applications and aside from having good weight to strength ratio it doesn't rust in none vacuum oxygen rich environment (Corrosion) and it can handle higher temperatures (High Melting point +3000F) but those characteristics are exactly what makes them hard to work with and that's what makes anything made out of ti so expensive and in no industry are they more required than the Aircraft industry....

Again let me reiterate the cost of materials is NOT the reason Iran doesn't have a proper fighter program! Even if you required 100 tons of $100,000 (Per Ton) for your alloy requirement to build just one 10 ton Airframe (Just the frame) your really not looking at that much money for it to prevent you from building new Airframe designs and flying prototypes even on a yearly bases!

The Airforce's problem more than anything else is mentality, lack of vision and lack of management. And these problems are rather evident in the Air Forces UAV, PGM & Missile designs and variety over the past decade
 

Mr Iran Eye

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Do not take Vevak's analyzes seriously, especially on the Air Force, because it is pathetic and far from the truth. Philosopher rightly say not to underestimate the Iranian air force and it is clear that they have gone further than they let us believe. Vevak should go rest, knit slippers and strike a forum pose because his analyzes are very bad.
 

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