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Surenas

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This is why IRGC aerospace forces ends up with UAV's' & UCAV's that the Air force can't even dream about and overhauls upgrades and equips it's Su-22's with PGM's and deploys them while the Air Force is still scratching its head around....
If the mismanagement is so obvious, why doesn't anyone outside the IRIAF intervene to impose a different doctrine and course? Is it political?
 

PeeD

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I assume that this missile would (greatly) increase the RCS of a low-RCS plane if mounted on its external hard-points, so in theory this missile would need to be stored in a large enough stealth aerial platform that can accommodate it within its internal bay?

Or would something like a Su-30 (of various makes) be enough to complete the job?
Iran needs range. Su-30 with such a range weapon would hardly be able to fly out to 1000km.

Iran lacks propulsion for the Tu-22M3 like supersonic bomber and hence could only try to build a LO Simorgh Bomber with internal carriage of 2-4 Raad-500 variants.
 

Muhammed45

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1st off don't confuse Iran's capabilities as a country with the Air Forces short sighted poorly managed R&D projects and utter miss management.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble but NO country in their right mind at Iran's level of financial capability goes and fields over +7 Different types of Fighter jets each with 7 complete different type of engines, radar & weapons systems, unless out of utter desperation.

IRIAF
1.MiG-29 (RD-33)
2.F-14 (TF-30)
3.F-4 (J79)
4.Su-24 (Al-21)
5.F-1 (Atar 9k-50)
6.F-5 (J85)
7.J-7 (R-13)
+ Yasin and other Jet trainers
IRGC
8.Su-22 (Al-21)

This is an Air force that can do everything but can NOT do anything right! Over the past 2 decades a properly managed Airforce would of had clear goals and plans to cut it's platforms down to 2 Platform + 1 advanced subsonic trainer built around no more than 2 different types of radar/weapon system and no more than 2 different types of engines and a really smart Air Force would have built 4 engine bomber around of those engines and would have stuck with different variants of a single domestically mass produced engine.

The result of fielding so many different fighter variants and engines is that you end up with an Airforce so entangled with maintenance and trying to keep the current fleet flying that they can't do anything else.

This is why IRGC aerospace forces ends up with UAV's' & UCAV's that the Air force can't even dream about and overhauls upgrades and equips it's Su-22's with PGM's and deploys them while the Air Force is still scratching its head around....
You are right sir.

Unfortunately for now, there is no suitable replacement for F14s and Mig29s as air superiority fighter jets.
The only good outcome of overhauling different fighter aircrafts is that your scientists are learning something new in a hardway.

There was plans to produce a locally made semi heavy turbofan engine in Iran. Guess what Rouhani admin disappointed us all. When the new president comes to Sa'ad Aabad then things could change in favor of local industries. From space Agency to nuclear facilities and civil Sector, from Workers to engineers, we will all breath again.

IRIAF has to be rebuilt by local fighter jets and a small fleet of newly purchased foreign fighters such as Sukhois in the future.
 

Sina-1

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Raad-500 already reached 500km from the ground, it would reach at least 1000km with airlaunch.
Yes I know that. My question is this.
If raad-500s length would be caught in half (the length of the actual missile that is) could it still reach the range of 500km if launched from 50k ft altitude?
 

PeeD

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Yes I know that. My question is this.
If raad-500s length would be caught in half (the length of the actual missile that is) could it still reach the range of 500km if launched from 50k ft altitude?
Generally speaking yes.

Due to very high altitude launch and mach 2+ speed, 500km range Iskander based Kinzhal reaches 2000km.
 

Sineva

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@PeeD, I have a particular request. Consider a solid BM where to be vertically launched on an aerial platform on 50k ft altitude with a similarly performance of raad-500.
If based on radar-500, what would you asses the required length of such a missile. Ball park is good enough. Thanks in advance!
This is where older heavy weight interceptor platforms like the mig25 could be worth their weight in gold as repurposed aero-ballistic missile launchers.I wonder if the syrians have any left that they`d be willing to part with?.
The only other option would likely be subsonic ex passenger or transport aircraft ie il76,tho these would lack the supersonic speed and altitude advantage of something like the mig25,they would to some degree make up for that by their ability to carry multiple missiles on wing pylons tho.
1st off don't confuse Iran's capabilities as a country with the Air Forces short sighted poorly managed R&D projects and utter miss management.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble but NO country in their right mind at Iran's level of financial capability goes and fields over +7 Different types of Fighter jets each with 7 complete different type of engines, radar & weapons systems, unless out of utter desperation.

IRIAF
1.MiG-29 (RD-33)
2.F-14 (TF-30)
3.F-4 (J79)
4.Su-24 (Al-21)
5.F-1 (Atar 9k-50)
6.F-5 (J85)
7.J-7 (R-13)
+ Yasin and other Jet trainers
IRGC
8.Su-22 (Al-21)

This is an Air force that can do everything but can NOT do anything right! Over the past 2 decades a properly managed Airforce would of had clear goals and plans to cut it's platforms down to 2 Platform + 1 advanced subsonic trainer built around no more than 2 different types of radar/weapon system and no more than 2 different types of engines and a really smart Air Force would have built 4 engine bomber around of those engines and would have stuck with different variants of a single domestically mass produced engine.

The result of fielding so many different fighter variants and engines is that you end up with an Airforce so entangled with maintenance and trying to keep the current fleet flying that they can't do anything else.

This is why IRGC aerospace forces ends up with UAV's' & UCAV's that the Air force can't even dream about and overhauls upgrades and equips it's Su-22's with PGM's and deploys them while the Air Force is still scratching its head around....
Sad but true,the iriaf has not even made the effort to modernise their first generation of indigenous pgms even tho these were designed,built and fielded back in the 90s and are now very long in the tooth being essentially a mixture of 70s,80s and 90s technology.
To put this in perspective,the mock up of the air launched cruise missile thats been displayed for several years now still uses the seeker from a 70s era[!!] maverick.
 
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Ich

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Looks like it starts from 5 Mach for steel warhead. Best results are at 15+ Mach.

Fire itself is plasma state. It is easier to reach that state for carbon than it is for steel.
In the pic it is said its mach 8. Not mach 5. And even with mach 8 there is no plasma at the cone. So we can assume that the plasma at the finns is only in a minor minor minor cause of friction, but in major cause of compression of the air. Cause if it would be due to friction, then there would be also plasma at the cone. So there must be some areas at the finns, where flow of the air is hindered, the air gets congested. And this leads to high compression what let the air heat up in this area. Hot enough to change over to plasma.

So as we can see, a warhead with mach 5 in terminal phase do not produce automatically a plasma halo if the aerodynamics of the warhead do not hinder the airflow.

Edit:

Here in missile thread there are pics of iranian missile warheads/cones. Normally the cone shows you the velocity of the warhead in the terminal phase.
 
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Sineva

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I would recommend that all of the posters here with an interest in the subject read the article
https://www.europeanleadershipnetwork.org/commentary/a-nuisance-to-the-west-a-life-insurance-to-the-islamic-republic-can-biden-do-anything-about-irans-missiles/

Thank you to @Messerschmitt for posting the link to the above article by fabian hinz as it was a rather refreshing read as for once the author was being both rather honest,not only in his recognition of the capbilities of irans missile forces and the huge technological leaps that the iranian military industrial complex had produced in order to bring about those capabilities,but also being politically pragmatic in recognising that ultimately the west and its gulfie and zionist vassals,absent big changes in their own behaviours of course,may simply have no choice but to learn to live with irans regional missile deterrent,

I think if perhaps the west is able to be just a little smarter[yes,very unlikely I know],or even just a little more pragmatic politically in the mena region then it may yet perhaps manage to avoid certain very unpleasant unintended consequences,such as an iranian irbm or icbm or other weapons and capabilities exceeding irans unofficial 2000km limit,and let us be blunt here as it was always the unconsidered or unintended consequences of its own actions that were always the wests real biggest problem in the region [NOT iran] and sadly the one lesson that it could either never learn or instead just stubbornly insisted on refusing to learn,and indeed both irans missiles and its nuclear program were 2 of these unintended consequences.
Unfortunately you still have western politicians on both sides of the atlantic who persist in the dangerous fantasy of thinking that they can get what they want from iran through a mixture of political and economic blackmail,and that even after 40 years of the iri they still have great difficulty politically in accepting the iran that is and not the iran that they wish it to be,ie vassalised and subservient.
 

VEVAK

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If the mismanagement is so obvious, why doesn't anyone outside the IRIAF intervene to impose a different doctrine and course? Is it political?
It's the Air Forces responsibility to manage it's self! Political leadership & Commander n Chief can only advise
& in reality should be the other way around....

Unfortunately, at this point due to so many decades of utter mismanagement I think Iran's political leadership has no choice but to get directly involved and they have 2 choices to choose from:

1.Convince either the Russians or the Chinese of tech transfer of the Su-30/J-16 airframe & engine and get them to agree to supply Iran with AESA radar or a PESA with an upgraded software package. This allows you to buy time to build the infrastructure and develop the capability to build your own in 10-15 years.

or

2. Start a skunk works type organization using Air Force & IRGC personal and make the development of a heavy fighter platform equipped with a capable Iranian engine a priority. Properly funded with plans to test 2 flying prototypes using existing engines within 2 years.
 

aryobarzan

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It's the Air Forces responsibility to manage it's self! Political leadership & Commander n Chief can only advise
& in reality should be the other way around....

Unfortunately, at this point due to so many decades of utter mismanagement I think Iran's political leadership has no choice but to get directly involved and they have 2 choices to choose from:

1.Convince either the Russians or the Chinese of tech transfer of the Su-30/J-16 airframe & engine and get them to agree to supply Iran with AESA radar or a PESA with an upgraded software package. This allows you to buy time to build the infrastructure and develop the capability to build your own in 10-15 years.

or

2. Start a skunk works type organization using Air Force & IRGC personal and make the development of a heavy fighter platform equipped with a capable Iranian engine a priority. Properly funded with plans to test 2 flying prototypes using existing engines within 2 years.
I like Option 2....very doable...keeps the development engine humming..
 

Hack-Hook

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It's the Air Forces responsibility to manage it's self! Political leadership & Commander n Chief can only advise
& in reality should be the other way around....

Unfortunately, at this point due to so many decades of utter mismanagement I think Iran's political leadership has no choice but to get directly involved and they have 2 choices to choose from:

1.Convince either the Russians or the Chinese of tech transfer of the Su-30/J-16 airframe & engine and get them to agree to supply Iran with AESA radar or a PESA with an upgraded software package. This allows you to buy time to build the infrastructure and develop the capability to build your own in 10-15 years.

or

2. Start a skunk works type organization using Air Force & IRGC personal and make the development of a heavy fighter platform equipped with a capable Iranian engine a priority. Properly funded with plans to test 2 flying prototypes using existing engines within 2 years.
and in your calculation and analysis, where you place the small difference in Air force and IRGC funding ?
 

VEVAK

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and in your calculation and analysis, where you place the small difference in Air force and IRGC funding ?
What difference did I place in Air Force vs IRGC funding?

Plus I believe funding to be more of an excuse than a problem. Do you think the Iranian leadership would even have serious discussions with the Russians over the Su-30 if Iran's Air Force had provided them with a viable domestic alternative? Obviously not and obviously not a discussion that would actually get approved.

Whenever the Air Force test a viable domestic alternative meaning a viable flying prototype then and only then they can come and complain about funding it.... And we are NOT talking about an organization that has no resources to speak of! From human resources, advanced tools, facility, software,....

Airforce's problem isn't funding! They can't even match the IRGC's UCAV capability despite the fact that they have access to more capable engines, to more relevant tools and facilities and have far more experience on airframes and avionics. So it's not about funding, it's about utter lack of vision and ingenuity + utter miss management and a rather deluded subservient way of thinking!
 

Hack-Hook

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Plus I believe funding to be more of an excuse than a problem. Do you think the Iranian leadership would even have serious discussions with the Russians over the Su-30 if Iran's Air Force had provided them with a viable domestic alternative? Obviously not and obviously not a discussion that would actually get approved.
I believe the Airforce don't want Su-30 and there is no serious talk about that airplane at all
Whenever the Air Force test a viable domestic alternative meaning a viable flying prototype then and only then they can come and complain about funding it.... And we are NOT talking about an organization that has no resources to speak of! From human resources, advanced tools, facility, software,....
for that you must pour money in research and developement and I yet to see that .and honestly before we master the needed technology such how to build the needed alloy how to manage advance methalorgy in industrial scale , how to build a reliable long lasting engine its a mute point working on a heavy airplane
Airforce's problem isn't funding! They can't even match the IRGC's UCAV capability despite the fact that they have access to more capable engines, to more relevant tools and facilities and have far more experience on airframes and avionics.
they lack the necessary funding to do so. by the way its not airforce duty to build the fighter and necessary technology its defense ministry and SAMT ministry duty to do that
 

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