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Philosopher

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Using UAVs to update the warhead on guidance seems like it may be vulnerable to jamming?
Theoretically yes. There is a complex kill chain associated with long anti-ship ballistic systems and this entail vulnerabilities should the chain be disrupted at any point. You can help reduce this by using various systems together such as radar, satellites, UAVs, submarines, ships (like Makran) but you will not remove the vulnerability all together. On this topic, this is why Iran's move to increase its presence in the Indian ocean is important. We have already heard words coming out of Iran relating to using ballistic missiles on ships. Iran's permanent presence in the Indian ocean will therefore increase its capability greatly in this regard - once such assets are present there in adequate numbers.
 

Shawnee

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This is an interesting point and goes against Ian and Fabian Hinz speculations.
I want to correct myself on plasma state seen in 5 Mach of the warhead.

I believe they are both right. Yes.
The ingredients of the alloy are burning in the warhead and also making yellow plasma caused by the ingredients.

Watch this:


In this video microwave provides the heating effect. Expand it to the warhead alloy.
I might be wrong. If you are an expert, feel free to provide an input.
 
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Oldman1

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Theoretically yes. There is a complex kill chain associated with long anti-ship ballistic systems and this entail vulnerabilities should the chain be disrupted at any point. You can help reduce this by using various systems together such as radar, satellites, UAVs, submarines, ships (like Makran) but you will not remove the vulnerability all together. On this topic, this is why Iran's move to increase its presence in the Indian ocean is important. We have already heard words coming out of Iran relating to using ballistic missiles on ships. Iran's permanent presence in the Indian ocean will therefore increase its capability greatly in this regard - once such assets are present there in adequate numbers.
I mentioned that ability with ballistic missiles on ships. Its a very powerful ability. Mobile bases with ballistic missiles.



Whats really scary is something like this.
 

Oldman1

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Most probably a lie by Fox News. They don't allow any foreign commercial or naval vessel within hundred miles of where the war game is taking place.
You mean 100 miles away from the impact point or the launching? Did Iran warned they are firing missiles from a thousand miles away and all ships need to clear out?
The Americans claimed their satellites detected the launch of these missiles. Therefore it is clear that another arm of Iranian offensive capability that we should expect to see much more in the future is anti-satellite weapons. Iran's enemies rely on their satellite systems to an extreme extent. In case of war, dismantling their satellite capability should occur simultaneously as the targeting of their earth based assets.
So you saying Iran doesn't rely on satellites?
If the U.S. Navy was going to carry out a full on attack against a country as strong as Iran, In terms of firing Tomahawk Cruise Missiles this is what they would likely do



View attachment 707744

View attachment 707772


Deploy as many as 4 Fleets with up to15 Ticonderoga Missile Cruisers between them in the initial offensive deployment

1.Indian Ocean - As many as 5 Ticonderoga Missile Cruiser among the fleet

2.Red Sea - 2 Ticonderoga Missile Cruiser

3.Meditation - 3-6 Ticonderoga Missile Cruiser

4.Black Sea - 3-6 Ticonderoga Missile Cruiser

Between them and other vessels in their fleet they will likely fire upwards of 2000 cruise missiles in the initial attack after that the U.S. Air Force will likely be flying B-2's back and forth between Poland and Diageo Garcia to deliver heavier ordinances while small teams of US special forces carryout attacks against known/fixed radar, SAM & com's using small drones & UGV and these are just in the initial attack


This is why it's vital for Iran to continue the development and deployment of larger subs (Preferably one with twice the size/mass of the Fateh with double the fire power) produced at much higher rates. And why Iran's navy needs to equip it's self with vessels that are equipped with a good number of LaCM and or capable of deploying swarms of suicide drones.

This is why as soon as the IRGC tested the Simorgh UAV(RQ-170), Iran's Air Force should have gone to the IRGC and begged for a joint project to develop and mass produce a large number of larger bomber version modified to be powered by 2 OwJ engines to start with and plans to build larger version with a higher angled wing and more powerful engines....


The ONLY way to prevent a war is to produce and deploy enough highly capable weapons that no country would ever dare to even think about attacking you.
Thats alot of Ticos involved. Almost to the point you think the Arleigh Burkes don't exist. There are many factors involved besides just Tomahawks and Ticos. Same for B-2s.
 

VEVAK

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Iran's missile and UAV offensive arm are incredible and by themselves can dismantle any nation/adversary within Iran's stated 2000km range. Now one can Imagine if Iran develops an airforce worthy of being seen in the same way (or even similar) as its missile and UAV forces. That would be greatly synergistic and Iran's adversaries would reach a new level of nightmare. It is inevitable that Iran's airforce will develop but it seems to me the airforce needs people to have the passion and mindset to do something great with it. Now this may be just a misperception on my part because I cannot see exactly what is happening in the airforce behind the scenes, but certainly from the surface it would appear the airforce needs a need breed of managers.
Iran's Air Force needs a new breed of managers/officers that don't subscribe to the old way of conventional thinking that fixates them on how an Air Force should behave.
Truth is it's more of a subservient way of thinking that they have right now than a conventional one! Today more capable Air Forces around the world are funding R&D into developing near space UCAV's and 6th gen fighter while Iran's Air Force can't even come up with an original subsonic Jet powered UCAV design of their own giving all the engines and sub systems tools and facilities they have at their disposal.

It's even worse with PANHA! When the Russians visited PANHA they where shocked at all the tools, facilities & resources PANHA had but wasn't properly utilizing. They are so fixated on constantly overhauling what they already have that they become blinded to the fact that if properly managed they could produce and replace at about the same cost rather than take every thing apart, inspect every millimeter of the aircraft, repair and or replace & then put everything back together.
And the amount of time and resources PANHA puts towards doing that far outweighs 10 tons of alloys and composites you'd be saving even if it cost a little more to produce If PANHA had instead focused on mass production in large quantities using modern tools and components, today they'd be exporting...


As for the Air Force this 2 decade long obsessions with the F-5 is so absurd that I believe whomever is pushing for this Aircraft is either a full on traitor or an utter Idiot! F-5 may be a good trainer but that's all it will ever be

The fact that a country like Turkey that just tested it's 1st ever mini jet engine in 2020( 2 decades after Iran) is coming up with a more sophisticated 5th gen mockup design before you(Iran's Air Force) is shameful!

And purchasing Su-30's is NOT the answer because your putting vast amount of funding towards a fighter that is already outdated. So unless the Russian agree to a full on tech transfer of the Airframe and Engine and agree to at least supply you with AESA radars or high end PESA radar with upgraded software and also agree to give full on access to the software so you can use your own weapons such a purchase would bring more harm than good.
 

Mr Iran Eye

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Don't be fooled by Vevak's analysis of Iranian aviation, this is a total intellectual disaster. No intuition, weak analysis and no tactical vision. Iran has come further than one thinks in their fighter planes and one day this fact will be exposed. Yet sometimes they leave clues. The Kowsar remains a very good tactical and air combat support aircraft. The Iranian army will not call on Vevak because he has no sense of war tacticians and he has no overall vision. The hidden facets of the f-4 SM (Super Improved) will also be a big surprise. Vevak let go with your bad analysis
 

Sina-1

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@PeeD, I have a particular request. Consider a solid BM where to be vertically launched on an aerial platform on 50k ft altitude with a similarly performance of raad-500.
If based on radar-500, what would you asses the required length of such a missile. Ball park is good enough. Thanks in advance!
 

Ich

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I want to correct myself on plasma state seen in 5 Mach of the warhead.

I believe they are both right. Yes.
The ingredients of the alloy are burning in the warhead and also making yellow plasma caused by the ingredients.

Watch this:


In this video microwave provides the heating effect. Expand it to the warhead alloy.
I might be wrong. If you are an expert, feel free to provide an input.
Is there a pic with the plasma around the warhead? As far as i know plasma arises if the electrons are seperated from the core. This can be done by different ways where high heat is one of the ways. But i cant imagine that mach 5 will produce enough heat with friction between warhead an air molecules. Also the warhead of the missile is aerodynamic and thus friction is tried to avoid.
 

Shawnee

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Is there a pic with the plasma around the warhead? As far as i know plasma arises if the electrons are seperated from the core. This can be done by different ways where high heat is one of the ways. But i cant imagine that mach 5 will produce enough heat with friction between warhead an air molecules. Also the warhead of the missile is aerodynamic and thus friction is tried to avoid.

Looks like it starts from 5 Mach for steel warhead. Best results are at 15+ Mach.

Fire itself is plasma state. It is easier to reach that state for carbon than it is for steel.
 

Arminkh

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You mean 100 miles away from the impact point or the launching? Did Iran warned they are firing missiles from a thousand miles away and all ships need to clear out?

So you saying Iran doesn't rely on satellites?

Thats alot of Ticos involved. Almost to the point you think the Arleigh Burkes don't exist. There are many factors involved besides just Tomahawks and Ticos. Same for B-2s.
I'm sure they did. They did warn a US sub not to get close to the war game area. And no, 100 miles around the perimeter of the war game area. For a ballistic missile, slightest change in direction would easily translate to than 100 miles in 1000 miles.
 

PeeD

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@PeeD, I have a particular request. Consider a solid BM where to be vertically launched on an aerial platform on 50k ft altitude with a similarly performance of raad-500.
If based on radar-500, what would you asses the required length of such a missile. Ball park is good enough. Thanks in advance!
Ok I guess you want the Raad-500 range at horizontal air launch.
Difficult to say but 1000km should be reasonable.
That's why I want to see a Simorgh based bomber with such weapons.
 

Sina-1

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Ok I guess you want the Raad-500 range at horizontal air launch.
Difficult to say but 1000km should be reasonable.
That's why I want to see a Simorgh based bomber with such weapons.
No that was not my meaning. Sorry for lousy explanation.

Here is the article that caught my eyes:

Vertical, hot launched ICBMs!
1611041177130.png


Basically what I am wanting to figure out is what is the minimum length for a BM with a 300-500km range. My guesstimate is basically half the length of Raad-500 should do the trick if launched on 50k ft altitude.
 

PeeD

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No that was not my meaning. Sorry for lousy explanation.

Here is the article that caught my eyes:

Vertical, hot launched ICBMs!
View attachment 708254

Basically what I am wanting to figure out is what is the minimum length for a BM with a 300-500km range. My guesstimate is basically half the length of Raad-500 should do the trick if launched on 50k ft altitude.
Raad-500 already reached 500km from the ground, it would reach at least 1000km with airlaunch.

However I would not use a high RCS airplane as platform. What would make sense is a long range low RCS platform that is able to create a real benefit, by flying up to 300km close to enemy airborders. A intercontinental weapon at the cost of an SRBM. At least up until the airfields are not destroyed.

The USAF ideas back then of the air launched Minuteman were mainly politically motivated, to remain relevant. Having those B-747 always on patrol, in the air to enable second strike capability. Expensive and inefficient.

Only LO platforms could escape once interceptors come to hunt it down, except for a supersonic platform.
 

Blue In Green

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Raad-500 already reached 500km from the ground, it would reach at least 1000km with airlaunch.

However I would not use a high RCS airplane as platform. What would make sense is a long range low RCS platform that is able to create a real benefit, by flying up to 300km close to enemy airborders. A intercontinental weapon at the cost of an SRBM. At least up until the airfields are not destroyed.

The USAF ideas back then of the air launched Minuteman were mainly politically motivated, to remain relevant. Having those B-747 always on patrol, in the air to enable second strike capability. Expensive and inefficient.

Only LO platforms could escape once interceptors come to hunt it down, except for a supersonic platform.
I assume that this missile would (greatly) increase the RCS of a low-RCS plane if mounted on its external hard-points, so in theory this missile would need to be stored in a large enough stealth aerial platform that can accommodate it within its internal bay?

Or would something like a Su-30 (of various makes) be enough to complete the job?
 

VEVAK

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Don't be fooled by Vevak's analysis of Iranian aviation, this is a total intellectual disaster. No intuition, weak analysis and no tactical vision. Iran has come further than one thinks in their fighter planes and one day this fact will be exposed. Yet sometimes they leave clues. The Kowsar remains a very good tactical and air combat support aircraft. The Iranian army will not call on Vevak because he has no sense of war tacticians and he has no overall vision. The hidden facets of the f-4 SM (Super Improved) will also be a big surprise. Vevak let go with your bad analysis
1st off don't confuse Iran's capabilities as a country with the Air Forces short sighted poorly managed R&D projects and utter miss management.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble but NO country in their right mind at Iran's level of financial capability goes and fields over +7 Different types of Fighter jets each with 7 complete different type of engines, radar & weapons systems, unless out of utter desperation.

IRIAF
1.MiG-29 (RD-33)
2.F-14 (TF-30)
3.F-4 (J79)
4.Su-24 (Al-21)
5.F-1 (Atar 9k-50)
6.F-5 (J85)
7.J-7 (R-13)
+ Yasin and other Jet trainers
IRGC
8.Su-22 (Al-21)

This is an Air force that can do everything but can NOT do anything right! Over the past 2 decades a properly managed Airforce would of had clear goals and plans to cut it's platforms down to 2 Platform + 1 advanced subsonic trainer built around no more than 2 different types of radar/weapon system and no more than 2 different types of engines and a really smart Air Force would have built 4 engine bomber around of those engines and would have stuck with different variants of a single domestically mass produced engine.

The result of fielding so many different fighter variants and engines is that you end up with an Airforce so entangled with maintenance and trying to keep the current fleet flying that they can't do anything else.

This is why IRGC aerospace forces ends up with UAV's' & UCAV's that the Air force can't even dream about and overhauls upgrades and equips it's Su-22's with PGM's and deploys them while the Air Force is still scratching its head around....
 

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