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Iranian missiles land within 20 miles of ship, 100 miles from Nimitz strike group in Indian Ocean: officials

azbaroj

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@Aspen fabricating thread titles is not allowed. Keep it as per Source or action will be taken. Served a soft warning but seems like you aren't paying any heed. I am not very soft for baseless accusations and blames. Treat it as an open warning.
What is wrong here . This news came to many international media and its an International headline for some time.
 

Oldman1

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Yes any country that houses hostile U.S forces in case of an open war will be targeted as they should.
Thats alot of countries to go to war with.
Iran's accurate ballistic missiles are defining new ways that wars are fought

The vulnerability of giant, stationary air bases to precision missile
strikes was demonstrated during the January 2020 Iranian missile strike
on the US-operated Ein Assad air base in Iraq. Prior to the attack, the
US teams at that base had launched a fleet of Predator UAVs for
patrolling the base perimeter. One of the incoming Iranian missiles hit
an underground communications conduit and cut the fiber optic lines
between the UAV’s control vans and the system’s transceivers. This
caused a loss of ground control over the entire UAV fleet. It took hours
to reestablish communication via satellite and bring the UAVs back in.

Needless to say, US combat aircraft based in Iraq were powerless against
this missile strike. Simply put, Iran gained air superiority over the
air base by virtue of its precision missiles. Hezbollah intends to perfect this tactic in
any future conflict with Zionists in Occupied Palestine.
Well you might as well abandoned all your air bases and aircraft if you think ballistic missiles is the way to go.
 

TheImmortal

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You made the claim that it has a range of 2500km and I explained to you that is the minimum range it is believe to have had. My original comment was linked to the 4000km figure, hence why I reminded you of it. Moreover, there are many sources that use the 4000km range as its range, so this is not my own personal assumption. Therefore, unless you have any hard evidence to suggest it cannot reach those ranges, then refrain from questioning it.
Do you even know the basis of Khorramshar’s design?

My claim for 2,500Km range comes from the REAL father of Musudan and Khorramshahr missile which is the R-27 Zyb.

Here are the stats for the two variants the soviets made:


R-27
  • Total Mass: 14.200 kg
  • Diameter: 1.50 m
  • Total Length: 8.89 m
  • Span: 1.50 m
  • Payload: 650 kg
  • Warhead: single nuclear: 1.0 Mt
  • Maximum range: 2400 km
  • CEP: 1.9 km
  • Launch platform: project 667A submarines
R-27U (RSM-25)
  • Total Mass: 14.200 kg
  • Diameter: 1.50 m
  • Total Length: 8.89 m
  • Span: 1.50 m
  • Payload: 650 kg
  • Warhead: 3 : 200 kt
  • Maximum range: 3,000 km
  • CEP: 1.3 km
  • Launch platform: project 667AU submarines

So again, assuming that Iran was able to match the performance of R-27U perfectly and then some. For Khorramshahr to have a range nearly 1000KM more (4000 KM) than its soviet predecessor design it would need to have a warhead less than 500kg.

Better yet, explain to me how Iran was able to increase the warhead by nearly 300% while keeping nearly the same range as the original in terms of distance? Yet you not only believe that but also seem to think it can double the distance (4000KM) and have no payload penalty whatsoever.

It’s funny you claim the other doesn’t know anything about “rocket science”, but it’s obvious you have no clue and are merely googling sources that use words like reportedly or allegedly.

In conclusion, if you look at the what both the H-10 and Khorramshahr are based on (R-27) then you will see why the distance/payload argument you are making doesn’t make any sense even assuming Iran is using an optimized propellant.

So again the fact lies on you who decided to argue this notion to prove that Khorramshahr has a 4,000KM and can carry a warhead above 500kg my proof is the original missile that Khorramshahr is based on, what is yours?

Hence the original argument where I said it is unlikely to be able to reach Diego Garcia with a payload above 500kg and be better to use CMs and save Khorramshahr for US targets and Israeli targets.


Khorramshahr carries an 1,800kg to 2,000 KM (when the original design could do 650kg to 2400KM)

Knorramshahr can carry a warhead greater than 500kg to a distance of 4000KM (original argument) when the optimized variant could only carry a 650KG to 3000KM.

Also I should add the 4000KM theory was yours which you never backed up with a single source. Which is ironic, that you post hypothetical ranges with no sources backing them, but ask others for detailed concrete evidence when it doesn’t fit your narrative. Much like your other posts on here. Very ironic.
 
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Philosopher

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Do you even know the basis of Khorramshar’s design?
My claim for 2,500Km range comes from the REAL father of Musudan and Khorramshahr missile which is the R-27 Zyb.Here are the stats for the two variants the soviets made:
So again, assuming that Iran was able to match the performance of R-27U perfectly and then some. For Khorramshahr to have a range nearly 1000KM more (4000 KM) than its soviet predecessor design it would need to have a warhead less than 500kg.
Just because the Iranian Khorramshahr and Musudan utilise the same engine as the R-27, it does not follow they must have the same range-payload specification. You post the specifications of the R-27 and miss the obvious difference in its dimensions and the Iranian Khorramshar. You're making yet another elementary error.

Screen Shot 2021-01-18 at 15.28.36.png


Screen Shot 2021-01-18 at 15.30.00.png



The Iranian system is considerably larger than the soviet R-27. Moreover, there many other factors that can be different between these systems that can explain their specs, You're commenting as if these systems are clones of one another.

Better yet, explain to me how Iran was able to increase the warhead by nearly 300% while keeping nearly the same range as the original in terms of distance?
You want me to start giving you the basics on how missile payloads can be increased? If your level of understanding is this deficient, then why are you even commenting on this topic?

Yet you not only believe that but also seem to think it can double the distance (4000KM) and have no payload penalty whatsoever.
I did not claim doubling the range can be achieved without reducing the payload.

It’s funny you claim the other doesn’t know anything about “rocket science”, but it’s obvious you have no clue and are merely googling sources that use words like reportedly or allegedly.
The irony is, you simply googled and posted a blatantly false article which was debunked. My sources were all reliable and respected references. The problem is not using google, but knowing how to analyse the data.

In conclusion, if you look at the what both the H-10 and Khorramshahr are based on (R-27) then you will see why the distance/payload argument you are making doesn’t make any sense even assuming Iran is using an optimized propellant.
Already debunked this.

So again the fact lies on you who decided to argue this notion to prove that Khorramshahr has a 4,000KM and can carry a warhead above 500kg my proof is the original missile that Khorramshahr is based on, what is yours?
1- You made a statement claiming its warhead would have to be less than 500kg to reach the stated ranges.
2- I asked you for proof and you ended up posting some unreliable article which was debunked
3- Now you're shifting the burden of proof

I do not have an issue defending my own assertions however the point is this, if you are unable of defending your own claims, then why are you making them in the first place?

Hence the original argument where I said it is unlikely to be able to reach Diego Garcia with a payload above 500kg
An argument which was without substance.

Khorramshahr carries an 1,800kg to 2,000 KM (when the original design could do 650kg to 2400KM)
The Iranian Khorramshahr is believed to have been influenced by the Musaden which itself was influenced by the R-27. The specification of the Musaden are estimated to be as follows:

Screen Shot 2021-01-18 at 15.11.14.png


What are you trying to do is compare the Iranian Khorramshahr to the very original R-27 which had less capable specifications and completely different dimensions. Again, you are acting as if these systems are clones of one another. These are different systems with varying specification.

Knorramshahr can carry a warhead greater than 500kg to a distance of 4000KM (original argument)
About 50% of your entire comment is just repeating the same statement(s).

when the optimized variant could only carry a 650KG to 3000KM.
What is this "optimised variant" you're referring to here?

Also I should add the 4000KM theory was yours which you never backed up with a single source. Which is ironic, that you post hypothetical ranges with no sources backing them, but ask others for detailed concrete evidence when it doesn’t fit your narrative. Much like your other posts on here. Very ironic.
The 4000km range has been part of multiple sources I have posted, this would have been evident should you have checked the sources. As for my asking for evidence, well if you believe people here will just accept your statements as facts than you're in the wrong place. In your case, we have witnessed that your entire claims have based on erroneous calculations.
 
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TheImmortal

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Just because the Iranian Khorramshahr and Musadeh utilise the same engine as the R-27, it does not follow they must have the same range-payload specification. You post the specifications of the R-27 and miss the obvious difference in its dimensions and the Iranian Khorramshar. You're making yet another elementary error.

View attachment 708063

View attachment 708064


The Iranian system is considerable larger than the soviet R-27. Moreover, there many other factors that can be different between these systems that can explain their specs, You're commenting as if these systems are clones of one another.



You want me to start giving you the basics on how missile payloads can be increased? If your level of understanding is this deficient, then are you even commenting on this topic?



Straw-man argument, where did I claim doubling the range can be achieved without reducing the payload?



The irony is, you simply googled and posted a blatantly false article which was debunked. My sources were all reliable and respected references. The problem is not using google, but knowing how to analyse the data, something which you have demonstrated to lack.



Already debunked this.



1- You made a statement claiming its warhead would have to be less than 500kg to reach the stated ranges.
2- I asked you for proof and you ended up posting some unreliable article which was debunked
3- Now you're shifting the burden of proof

I do not have an issue defending my own assertions however the point is this, if you are incapable of defending your own claims, then why are you making them in the first place?



An argument which was baseless.



The Iranian Khorramshahr is believed to have been influenced by the Musaden which itself was influenced by the R-27. The specification of the Musaden are estimated to be as follows:

View attachment 708060

What are you trying to do is compare the Iranian Khorramshahr to the very original R-27 which had less capable specifications and completely different dimensions. Again, you are acting as if these systems are clones of one another. These are different systems with varying specification.



About 50% of your entire comment is just repeating the same statement(s). The fact that you resort to this shows you do not actually have a succinct and substantive argument.



What is this "optimised variant" you're referring to here?



The 4000km range has been part of multiple sources I have posted, this would have been evident should you have checked the sources. As for my asking for evidence, well if you believe people here will just accept your statements as facts than you're in the wrong place. In your case, we have witnessed that your entire claims have based on erroneous calculations.
The Optimized variant is R-27U which I said multiple times. You again know very little about what you are talking about.

You want me to start giving you the basics on how missile payloads can be increased? If your level of understanding is this deficient, then are you even commenting on this topic?


Yes please do. Because it’s clear you don’t know what you are talking about and merely Google facts to act like an “expert” it is what you do with nearly everything. So please explain this level of physics for me or as you like to put it “rocket science”. I will clearly wait while you Google it and copy and paste and answer and act like an arm chair expert.

The difference in R-27 and R-27U length is not an error on my part, but a well know factor in Khorramshahr’s development. The original R-27 and R-27U they were SLBMs and thus were fitted on submarines. Iranians and NK took the design and made it into a land based variant. The Iranian version in particular decided to elongate the fuel tank more than NK and the original Russian variant, but that elongation would not suddenly add 2000KM to its original range.

If you don’t believe me, here is a credible (Iranian) user in this field talking about the differences.




so in conclusion my original hypothesis is valid that a 4000KM Khorramshahr would have a payload of 500kg or less.

The other point about 2000KM range 1800kg payload, I believe it to be less. Not 900KM, but not 2000KM either. For this is an opinion.

The original argument was centered on Diego Garcia and wether Khorramshahr could make it with a payload even worth targeting the base. My opinion still stands as no given the information available on open source. I still think CMs or a future larger Khorramshahr variant (its in development) would be more viable options.
 
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Philosopher

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The Optimized variant is R-27U which I said multiple times. You again know very little about what you are talking about.
I asked you clarify your statement because you're constantly flip flopping. Moreover, like I have demonstrated, the R-27 and Khorramshahr share quite a little in common minus their engine. Thus any attempts to compare the Iranian system to the old soviet missile is a waste of time.


You want me to start giving you the basics on how missile payloads can be increased? If your level of understanding is this deficient, then are you even commenting on this topic?
Lets start with the basics, do you understand that the larger the missile the more fuel mass it can carry? or is this something that you find hard to comprehend as well?

Yes please do. Because it’s clear you don’t know what you are talking about and merely Google facts to act like an “expert” it is what you do with nearly everything.
So far, I debunked everything you have said using those "google facts" so if that makes me an expert compare to someone like you, then so be it.

The difference in R-27 and R-27U length is not an error on my part,
You seem confused, I showed you R-27 and RS-27U's dimensions were different to Khorramshahr, not the difference between R-27 and R-27U. And yes, it is clearly an error because you are comparing missiles with completely different dimensions and trying to compare their ranges and payload.


but a well know factor in Khorramshahr’s development. The original R-27 and R-27U they were SLBMs and thus were fitted on submarines. Iranians and NK took the design and made it into a land based variant. The Iranian version in particular decided to elongate the fuel tank more than NK and the original Russian variant, but that elongation would not suddenly add 2000KM to its original range.

If you don’t believe me, here is a credible (Iranian) user in this field talking about the differences.
You're just making this worse for yourself the more you comment. Your very source has stated:

"Irans Khorramshahr is very different to the HS-10 "Musudan" and their ancestor R-27. Mastering the involved technologies was a hurdle which Iran managed to take, NK not. Irans variant has the largest tanks and hence highest performance. "

And yet in your previous comment, you are trying to compare the specification of Khorramshahr to that of the soviet R-27. Your source is basically proving my point that the Iranian system has higher performance than either of those systems, hence the Iranian statement of a 1.8t payload to 2000k is not hard to envisage especially given the Musudan is estimated to have a range of 2500-4000Km with a payload of 500-1200Kg. So do you disagree that the Khorramshahr can reach 2000km with 1.8tons?
 

TheImmortal

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So do you disagree that the Khorramshahr can reach 2000km with 1.8tons?
Listen Khorramshahr is based on R-27, Iran elongated the fuel tank and even that source I posted says it has a lower spec than the original R-27 on a pound for pound basis in other posts. Iran elongated the tank likely due to using a different fuel mixture and its version of R-27 engine not having the same capabilities as the original Soviet version. Again this part is my opinion.

I do not agree that the range is 2000KM with that payload. But thats beside the point we are getting off topic, the original argument was what is the payload of a Khorramshahr at 4000KM in which I brought forth the notion it is likely 500kg or less.

Based on your own quote of Musudan missile being 2000-4000KM with a 500kg-1200kg payload. Let’s say you are correct on this information. Assuming it can carry at 1200kg payload at 2000KM then what can it carry at 4000KM? 500kg, no?

To target Diego Garcia, you need a lot more firepower. That is why China invested so much building fake islands because an island is like a permanent air craft carrier that is impossible to sink.

My proposal is to use CMs long before wasting Khorramshahr with a reduced payload. When it’s full payload can be used on Qatar, UAE, and Saudi Arabia.
 

Philosopher

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Listen Khorramshahr is based on R-27, Iran elongated the fuel tank and even that source I posted says it has a lower spec than the original R-27 on a pound for pound basis in other posts.
The source stated the missile has better performance, that is what matters. Better performance means better overall payload and range characteristics. Moreover, your own source has also subscribed to the 2000km range at 1.8ton warhead. Feel free to ask them.

Iran elongated the tank likely due to using a different fuel mixture and its version of R-27 engine not having the same capabilities as the original Soviet version. Again this part is my opinion.
There is alot about the Iranian missile we do not know, hence why one cannot deny Iran's stated specs of 2000km and 1.8ton based on information from completely different missiles. From my perspective, if the Musudan is estimated to be able to reach its ranges, then there is nothing to say Iran's statement regarding the range-payload is not valid.

I do not agree that the range is 2000KM with that payload. But thats beside the point we are getting off topic, the original argument was what is the payload of a Khorramshahr at 4000KM in which I brought forth the notion it is likely 500kg or less.
It is not beside the point, because in order for us to try and comment on its potential range at 4000km range, then we need to first agree on whether it can reach 2000km on 1.8ton payload. I

Based on your own quote of Musudan missile being 2000-4000KM with a 500kg-1200kg payload. Let’s say you are correct on this information. Assuming it can carry at 1200kg payload at 2000KM then what can it carry at 4000KM? 500kg, no?
The ranges they estimated are based on the payload they are giving. I.e 1200 kg for 2500km and 500kg at 4000km. Now if we agree that Iranian Khorramshahr has better performance, then we could envisage it having payload more than 500kg at those ranges. If you have time on your hand, you can read the below paper which is based on creating mathematical model between a missile payload and range. In this paper, you can get a general idea what may happen if you reduce payload vs range for missiles.


Screen Shot 2021-01-18 at 00.43.45.png


Mp is the missile's payload, now you can see for the same missile at a particular drag factor if you reduce payload by half you more or less double the range. Don't worry about differentiating between Rc and Ra above, just consider them to be interchangeable for the sake of this discussion. So does this means that the same exactness applies to Khorramshahr? not necessarily because like I said in order to create a proper modelling for each missile, you would need details of that missile which we do not have. However, there is no evidence to think in order to double the range of Khorramshahr, you would need to reduce to warhead to less than 500kg.

To target Diego Garcia, you need a lot more firepower. That is why China invested so much building fake islands because an island is like a permanent air craft carrier that is impossible to sink.
You need a lot of firepower to target most American bases given their sizes. However, there is no reason why Iran could not get the job done from its own mainland if it needed to.

My proposal is to use CMs long before wasting Khorramshahr with a reduced payload. When it’s full payload can be used on Qatar, UAE, and Saudi Arabia.
What is Iran's longest range cruise missile? from where do you want to fire them at Diego Garcia? Iran's ability to fire such assets away from its own shores is limited at the moment. In the future, when cruise missiles and ballistic missiles are stored on mobile bases in the Indian ocean in adequate numbers we can discuss this, but at the moment such a capability is not at that point. However, the capability to use Khorramshahr from mainland Iran is available.
 

925boy

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I don't know. The USAF seems to have an awful lot of heavy payload very long range bombers. Think they found planes like that really useful when they decided to bomb the crap out of Germany and Japan.
we will explain how it works to you, but first you need to exit the alternative reality you live in and come back to earth. let us know when you have arrived and we can explain the harsh reality of today's world to you then. cheers.
 

KurtisBrian

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we will explain how it works to you, but first you need to exit the alternative reality you live in and come back to earth. let us know when you have arrived and we can explain the harsh reality of today's world to you then. cheers.
Probably most Americans are not the same as people in Africa, India, Pakistan or China. Probably all those people are not the same as me. People are different. In other words what is real or reality for one person is not always real or reality for another.
 
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