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Discussion in 'Iranian Defence Forum' started by Rukarl, Aug 29, 2016.
there was another news of an engine with 60 kn thrust rating for commercial aviation use too.
Again mere speculation by many members here.
The chance that Iran reverse engineers RD-33 is quite low. More likely license production could be granted by Russia behind the scenes post 2020.
The news is quite ambiguous. The General never says fighter jet engines. He could be talking about civilian engines for small planes. After all civilian jet engines and helicopter engines can help both military AND civilian aviation.
So I won’t get my hopes up. After 20+ years of F-5 experimentation, even the J-85 (owj) isn’t being produced in sufficient numbers after its unveiling.
Its beyond that: The RD-33 is the only engine technology that is worth to reverse engineer for Iran and its basic design remains state of the art even today. Very difficult but Iran isn't a nobody in the industry (MAPNA).
Will it be a complete new design like a J-90? Unlikely that approach would be a very high risk one.
Russia hasn't given India, its multi-billion, historical partner a licence production on engines. This is a red line for them. Maybe if Iran manages to copy the RD-33 they will declare their readiness for such a license production with sufficient numbers of Su-30 ordered.
The helicopter engine is at least a TV3-117 copy so much we do already know. Plus maybe a PW light engine copy for the Bell series.
Beside that Iran has only the RD-33 and maybe the RQ-170 engine that would be worth to reverse engineer.
If Iran manages to master the design the core of the RD-33, it could expand into different variations.
What we can expect as something unspectacular would be a J-90 that would be a turbofan variant of the J-85. However the redesign necessary would make it an as huge achievement as coping and mastering the RD-33.
The RD-33 is here kinda like the AK or T-72 of turbofan engines: A ideal candidate for coping if you have sufficient capabilities for such a project.
The Owj is not a serious path to the future. It is a great training the create the workforce and learn about production techniques. Same with the Kowsar: The IRIAF needs 30-60 of them as advanced trainers for their future heavy fighter.
These things are huge industrial endeavor that are normally supported by generations of engineers and technicians. Precision high performance mechanics is something Iran first learned from the North Koreans when starting on liquid BMs... It has come far with the Khorramshahr engine but for engines you need even better materials than for those liquid fuel motors, something North Koreans did not follow further.
Now Iran is getting there and it has companies like MAPNA which has already produced some generations of engineers that can be hired.
Once precision high performance mechanics as well as high performance durable materials have entered industrial scale, we can expect jet engines and tank engines, two of the last bottlenecks Iran has.
more like it, to put bit sense on it
I can't say anything about source where the first one came from to start reverse engineering.
Only think i can say it wasn't Russia Putin or China.
this RD-33 none sense was achieved after Moj engine, long time ago, that is not what Moj Gen. Bagheri was talking about.
Iran used RD33 engine to upgrade its F5 fleet. Hull modified.
who said that ??
its old news , Iran imported around 30 or more engines from Russia. They were basically imported for Mig29 , but according to few news report, they were used in F5. Because part issue with American engines.
i don't know anything about that news. father more the reason i posted AL-31 i was trying to Put stop to this RD-33 nonsense
which is gaining momentum in forum
is it better than RD33?
ask people here .
what do you think
30,200 lbf Thrust or 20,000 lbf ?
and which one is more efficient in fuel usage ?
depends on the use you put that it. it's obviously is able to support heavy fighters.
@yavar well bro latest version of RD-33 is more efficient in SFC matter.
If true then my money is on Venezuela as the source.
Good guess! Could be Belarus this time again. Hefty enough money from Iran they might as well, since they even sold two to the us amongst others when they got rid of all su27s
Might I ask what your conclusion is based on?
Rd-33 is much but Al-31 series tops even that.
It starts to become questionable.
China was dreaming for 25 years to create something in that class. They skipped a RD-33/EJ-200 class engine to concentrate their resources on a 15 ton thrust class engine and still only managed to do it in this decade.
So alone a RD-33 copy is not significantly easier than a Al-31, otherwise Chinese would have done it for the JF-17 and J-31.
The difference is that the Chinese saw no solution in "just" coping the Al-31, maybe deemed an impossible task at that time, so they went for a own design, hoping to "understand" it.
What an Iranian Al-41 would mean is hence this: Soviets started the Chinese jet engine program in the 60's and by at least 2010, China, after 50+ years of experience and vast resources, had not managed to serial produce a 13-15ton class turbofan.
Iran with jet engine parts manufacture starting at earliest in the 80's and prototyping of simple designs in the 2000's, would create a prototype of a direct copy of a 15ton class turbofan in ~2020. That would create a effective gap of only 5-10 years to Chinese veterans.
I have problems to believe such a technological miracle is possible.
Iran had miracles in the past on radars and has a company like MAPNA active in related fields, but alone a RD-33 copy would be a unbelievable feat 2020:
I said it in the past: reverse engineering an as complex mechanical machine like the RD-33 and beyond, maybe deemed as impossible by many and certainly Chinese just wanted to avoid getting into the mess of a non-functional copy when developing their WS-10.
I hope that Iranians managed to copy it via most modern computer aided methods and got input from the materials side from MAPNA in order to skip the nightmare Chinese went trough... whether RD-33 or Al-31.
The difference is: CAD and own resources in Nano-technic (both things China did not have in the late 80s and before) give Iran an advantage. So me think the years from 1980-2019 for Iran were the same as the years from 1960-2010 were for China.