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Bahram Esfandiari

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Time to replace the head of Artesh ground forces with a young and up to date individual...give the old guy a wooden handle RPG so that he can be happy in his retirement. Just look at Arminian generals...old warriors but way past retirment age...they forgot that times have changed and 30 year old military hardware is of no use against modern toys...
Some of you guys are really getting carried away with this bullshit. There is nothing wrong with Infantry soldiers being equipped with regular "wooden handle" RPG-7 rocket launchers as a light anti tank weapon. Remember that the RPG-7 is just the launcher and it can fire more advanced rockets when available. Iran has a huge military and while ATGMs have their place on the battle field, so to does RPGs. Hell even the U.S has adopted the 84mm Carl Gustave recoilless rifle which in max effective range and armour penetration is very similar to the RPG-7 while the RPG-7 is noticeably lighter. Iran's military needs a lot of modernization and better training and tactic but that does not mean that it needs to rid its self of old but effective weapons just because they are not fashionable. Iran's military is there to ensure Iran's sovereignty, not to fill the pockets of the Military Industrial complex like in some of our neighboring countries.
 

aryobarzan

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Some of you guys are really getting carried away with this bullshit. There is nothing wrong with Infantry soldiers being equipped with regular "wooden handle" RPG-7 rocket launchers as a light anti tank weapon. Remember that the RPG-7 is just the launcher and it can fire more advanced rockets when available. Iran has a huge military and while ATGMs have their place on the battle field, so to does RPGs. Hell even the U.S has adopted the 84mm Carl Gustave recoilless rifle which in max effective range and armour penetration is very similar to the RPG-7 while the RPG-7 is noticeably lighter. Iran's military needs a lot of modernization and better training and tactic but that does not mean that it needs to rid its self of old but effective weapons just because they are not fashionable. Iran's military is there to ensure Iran's sovereignty, not to fill the pockets of the Military Industrial complex like in some of our neighboring countries.
My dear friend Bahram..my point about wooden hendel rpg or helmet etc is not that they do not do their job...the point I have been trying to highlight is the "OPTICS" of how an iranian soldier looks like to an outsider...now why optics matter...it matters because it is the most obvious and readily available indication about the state of any armed force....yes looks can be deceiving a saudi soldier looks well supplied but gets his a**handed to him in first encounter with a Hothie..but for a country such as iran that can produce turbo fan jet engine it is a shame to dress her soldiers like a rag tag army of a third world country.
 

Bahram Esfandiari

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My dear friend Bahram..my point about wooden hendel rpg or helmet etc is not that they do not do their job...the point I have been trying to highlight is the "OPTICS" of how an iranian soldier looks like to an outsider...now why optics matter...it matters because it is the most obvious and readily available indication about the state of any armed force....yes looks can be deceiving a saudi soldier looks well supplied but gets his a**handed to him in first encounter with a Hothie..but for a country such as iran that can produce turbo fan jet engine it is a shame to dress her soldiers like a rag tag army of a third world country.
Thank you for elaborating your point. In my humble opinion Iran cannot modernize its entire military until the economic Issues have been solved. As you may already know one of the strong suites of Iran's military has been its ability to advance fields that have made up for Iran's weakness in regards to Air Power. I am talking about its Tactical Ballistic missiles, Cruise Missiles, UAV/UCAVs and Air Defense. These Fields have priority because they have allowed Iran the ability to defend against regional and extra-regional threats. Iran's Army only receives only a small portion of Iran's defense budget which is already one of the smallest in the region. That small portion that the army receives has to go to feeding housing and to a lesser extent paying Personnel, building and maintaining facilities, Training new conscripts, Training units (Fuel + ammo) ,maintaining and upgrading existing equipment and finally fielding New equipment. I'm sure I am leaving out some other costs here and there but these are the main ones off the top of my head. All this on a small budget that has shrunk over the last few years. Keep in mind that the Army is quite large in terms of manpower numbering roughly 350 000 me. We have seen that some of the more critical mission units like the 65th Air born special forces brigade and some commando brigades have received newer kit such as Kevlar helmets, tactical vests and new rifles( AK-103 & Masaf), but there numbers are relatively low compared to the Iranian Army as a whole. Iran's army currently can not afford to modernize such a large force unless the economy improves and the defense budget is increased to pay for it.

In regards to the Optics that you are referring to. I agree. The Army should do a better job to present itself to the Iranian public and abroad. PR is something that is a weak point for Iran as a whole in general and not just in the Military.
 

OldTwilight

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Thank you for elaborating your point. In my humble opinion Iran cannot modernize its entire military until the economic Issues have been solved. As you may already know one of the strong suites of Iran's military has been its ability to advance fields that have made up for Iran's weakness in regards to Air Power. I am talking about its Tactical Ballistic missiles, Cruise Missiles, UAV/UCAVs and Air Defense. These Fields have priority because they have allowed Iran the ability to defend against regional and extra-regional threats. Iran's Army only receives only a small portion of Iran's defense budget which is already one of the smallest in the region. That small portion that the army receives has to go to feeding housing and to a lesser extent paying Personnel, building and maintaining facilities, Training new conscripts, Training units (Fuel + ammo) ,maintaining and upgrading existing equipment and finally fielding New equipment. I'm sure I am leaving out some other costs here and there but these are the main ones off the top of my head. All this on a small budget that has shrunk over the last few years. Keep in mind that the Army is quite large in terms of manpower numbering roughly 350 000 me. We have seen that some of the more critical mission units like the 65th Air born special forces brigade and some commando brigades have received newer kit such as Kevlar helmets, tactical vests and new rifles( AK-103 & Masaf), but there numbers are relatively low compared to the Iranian Army as a whole. Iran's army currently can not afford to modernize such a large force unless the economy improves and the defense budget is increased to pay for it.

In regards to the Optics that you are referring to. I agree. The Army should do a better job to present itself to the Iranian public and abroad. PR is something that is a weak point for Iran as a whole in general and not just in the Military.
abolish conscripts and make smaller and more professional army ....

through history , in most case , smaller but more professional army beat bigger but less professional army which bulk of it was made by conscripts and levies ....

The Conscripts law has very bad social and cultural and economical effect on Iran ...
 

Ich

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abolish conscripts and make smaller and more professional army ....

through history , in most case , smaller but more professional army beat bigger but less professional army which bulk of it was made by conscripts and levies ....

The Conscripts law has very bad social and cultural and economical effect on Iran ...
Imo conscripts are a better option.

First the conscripts come in with young age and do learn discipline, teamwork and some other things from what all benefit - the society and the conscripts.

Also the Irak-Iran war shows that masses can do shit to the enemy, and masses of a conscript army with basics of warfare can do a lot more shit to the enemy.

So if the country needs millions of basic warfare fighters to defend, conscripts give the real punch even the conscripts are years out of army.
 

Bahram Esfandiari

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abolish conscripts and make smaller and more professional army ....

through history , in most case , smaller but more professional army beat bigger but less professional army which bulk of it was made by conscripts and levies ....

The Conscripts law has very bad social and cultural and economical effect on Iran ...
I have to agree with Ich although I think that the IRGC should be an all volunteer professional force.
Iran is too big with difficult terrain to be served properly with a small professional army. I also agree with Ich about the social benefits of Conscription for young men.
 
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OldTwilight

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Imo conscripts are a better option.

First the conscripts come in with young age and do learn discipline, teamwork and some other things from what all benefit - the society and the conscripts.

Also the Irak-Iran war shows that masses can do shit to the enemy, and masses of a conscript army with basics of warfare can do a lot more shit to the enemy.

So if the country needs millions of basic warfare fighters to defend, conscripts give the real punch even the conscripts are years out of army.
You don't know about Iran ...
In Iran Army most of conscripts are wasting their lives ... in 2 years of service , most of them won't shoot more than 30 bullets and they spend their lives as servant of officers , useless night watch , cleaning toilet and etc ...
 

jauk

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You don't know about Iran ...
In Iran Army most of conscripts are wasting their lives ... in 2 years of service , most of them won't shoot more than 30 bullets and they spend their lives as servant of officers , useless night watch , cleaning toilet and etc ...
I have to agree with Ich although I think that the IRGC should be an all volunteer professional force.
Iran is too big with difficult terrain to be served properly with a small professional army. I also agree with Ich about the social benefits of Conscription for young men.
As a thought, given one of the cheapest means of defense/offense is powerful imagery and propaganda and given the horrendous costs of war, I do not understand this neglect. All assets of power should be properly and completely conveyed. It's cost effective and THAT is the point. The last thing you want is the opponent and their population to underestimate you--which is what i fear is the case with the US vis-a-vis Iran. This type of image is deadly. This is another notion I conveyed repeatedly in IMF of the years.
 
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aryobarzan

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Before the revolution there was a plan that I think it was a good compromise...for university graduates if you were to sign a 6 year contract to work in defence industries then you did not have to do your two year conscript term..you would get paied regular industry salary ...it worked for me and it actually enabled me to work my entire career in defence sector outside iran.
Now if they expand such a plan and use this huge pool of young labour the sky is the limit what they can do...it is ironic that in western economies the biggest chunk of the costs for any project is the labor...a rough estimate is for every one dollar of material there is a three dollar of labour.
 

EvilWesteners

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ut wooden hendel rpg or helmet etc is not that they do not do their job...the point I have been trying to highlight is the "OPTICS" of how an iranian soldier looks like to an outsider...now why optics matter...it matters because it is the most obvious and readily available indication about the state of any armed force....yes looks can be deceiving a saudi soldier looks well supplied but gets his a**handed to him in first encounter with a Hothie..but for a country such as iran that can produce turbo fan jet
Before the revolution there was a plan that I think it was a good compromise...for university graduates if you were to sign a 6 year contract to work in defence industries then you did not have to do your two year conscript term..you would get paied regular industry salary ...it worked for me and it actually enabled me to work my entire career in defence sector outside iran.
Now if they expand such a plan and use this huge pool of young labour the sky is the limit what they can do...it is ironic that in western economies the biggest chunk of the costs for any project is the labor...a rough estimate is for every one dollar of material there is a three dollar of labour.
Very smart, Aryobarzan.

Labour cost is huge in the West. There are also lots of project management techniques that Iran can employ ... I will not give you a headache, but just share 1 of them with you.

Lockheed Martin, Northup Grumman, Boeing, GE, General Dynamics, Raytheon, and Pratt Whitney, all have their COOs meet once a year in a secret location, a nice hotel either West coast or East coast, and discuss common issues for future of U.S. defence industry.

One of the main issues they often talk about is labour cost, and of course every time, among other things of course. Their idea to reduce costs is to create a Work/Live environment.

This means: they are looking at a modular construction high rise of 7 stories, using ground floor and first story for factory space and offices just above, and the other 5 stories for housing for workers. Workers live upstairs and work downstairs. They believe this alleviates driving for hours, car expenses, waste of time, being away from family too long, and many other benefits, including creating a community for the workers, saving lots of money, and getting their kids to follow in their fathers' foot steps, since dads can bring their kids down at night to see what he does, etc.

The U.S. defence industry is funding half a dozen studies in creating such a work/live industrial community parks.

Iran could easily implement this. This is a no-brainer.

In my opinion, Iran can do this, and do it effectively.
 

aryobarzan

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Very smart, Aryobarzan.

Labour cost is huge in the West. There are also lots of project management techniques that Iran can employ ... I will not give you a headache, but just share 1 of them with you.

Lockheed Martin, Northup Grumman, Boeing, GE, General Dynamics, Raytheon, and Pratt Whitney, all have their COOs meet once a year in a secret location, a nice hotel either West coast or East coast, and discuss common issues for future of U.S. defence industry.

One of the main issues they often talk about is labour cost, and of course every time, among other things of course. Their idea to reduce costs is to create a Work/Live environment.

This means: they are looking at a modular construction high rise of 7 stories, using ground floor and first story for factory space and offices just above, and the other 5 stories for housing for workers. Workers live upstairs and work downstairs. They believe this alleviates driving for hours, car expenses, waste of time, being away from family too long, and many other benefits, including creating a community for the workers, saving lots of money, and getting their kids to follow in their fathers' foot steps, since dads can bring their kids down at night to see what he does, etc.

The U.S. defence industry is funding half a dozen studies in creating such a work/live industrial community parks.

Iran could easily implement this. This is a no-brainer.

In my opinion, Iran can do this, and do it effectively.
I can only imagine what amazing things can be done in iran and how sad it is that educated young people are working as taxi drivers to make ends meet....iran is a country that has every thing you need to be amongst the top 10 economies of the world..
1- educated labor force
2- every mineral you can think of
3- abundant cheap energy (dream for many other countries)
4- massive land geography with 4 season climate.
5-second to none historical sites going back thousands of years (a tourist mecca)
6-a culture and history envey of many

I recall the Supreme leader of iran once said that based on his information iran is currently using g only 10% of her capacity as a nation...imagine...90% unutilized capacity...and the funny thing is that for us iranians we have to come out of iran and look inside to see what potential is there...God gave this nation plenty to be grateful about.
 

Ich

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You don't know about Iran ...
In Iran Army most of conscripts are wasting their lives ... in 2 years of service , most of them won't shoot more than 30 bullets and they spend their lives as servant of officers , useless night watch , cleaning toilet and etc ...
Yes, i dont know Iran. But the points you made have nothing to do with the all over strength of a country having conscripts. Your points, if true, only show that some strategic thoughts are not made.

But if i look at the Basij, then i cant believe what you said. Cause even this Miliz in Iran has lots of trainings. On old IMF there was a dedicated thread for Basij and there were masses of pics and vids of manouvers and war-games of this Miliz to see. So me think there must be the same training with the conscripts in the army.
 

SalarHaqq

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The army is completely useless, these exercises are apparently designed to show strength and deter enemies from attacking Iran.

When seeing this picture, it only encourages attacks.
When talking abouth the Baku regime, you could actually hope that they are simple-minded enough to gauge Iran's military strength based on some random news agency picture, and then truly launch a conventional military attack against Iran... as it would provide Iran with the required justification to liberate her ancient lands from the grip of that pro-zionist regime.

But Iran's enemies aren't that incompetent either.

___

On a general note, the following pictures below were also posted to illustrate the recent Army exercice at Iran's border with the so-called Republic of "Azarbaijan":






Here we can notice the use of kevlar helmets, body armour or both, as well as powerful infantry weapons like automatic grenade launchers.

Yet, there's some focus on the trench picture and on taking issue with the way soldiers visible on that particular photograph are equipped. Why the selective approach?

The phenomenon of seeing only the empty half of the glass, so to speak, is actually quite widespread among Iranians. With some it takes extreme forms, those individuals perceiving Iran literally as hell on earth and idealizing the west as some sort of a paradise (fortunately Iranian users of this forum don't fall into this latter category).

Personally I would consider this to be largely part of the indirect fallouts of the enemy's massive psy-ops propaganda campaign against Iran. For students of these phenomena, it is actually fascinating to analyze (unfortunately so). It is safe to say that this multi-pronged, comprehensive, all encompassing propaganda effort, which resorts to every thinkable instrument, artifice and trick in the toolbox, has absolutely no equivalent in human history, neither in scale nor in intensity. This in turn is due to the existential nature of the zio-American empire's enmity against not only the Islamic Republic but also against Iran and the Iranian people themselves.

Therefore the mood this media campaign creates and suggestively propagates, affects various Iranians and non-Iranians way beyond actual oppositionists, enemies of the Islamic Republic or bona fide anti-Iranians. Not only will the standards by which people evaluate and judge the IR compared to other political systems and states become biased as a result, but there will be a tendency to magnify whatever may invite criticism at a superficial glance and with little regard for context, while grounds for praise will tend to be ignored for the most part.


I.R Officials :" Why spend money on the Army and our subject ( conscripts ) !? while we can steal the money for ourselves and send to Canada/UK to our childeren to have happy life in land of evil Satans !? "

the problem is beyond old commanders ....
Capital flight or having children who live in the west are not characteristic of "I.R. officials" in general, but largely limited to members of the liberal, western-apologetic, often Green Card-holding segment of the political class (reformists + centrists), plus a few additional elites.

It doesn't apply to the bulk of Sepahis, Basijis, Hezbollahis, 'arzeshis', nor to the Supreme Leader and his favored entourage.

To lump these categories will result in inaccurate conclusions.

The sons and daughters of high-ranking IRGC commanders are typically staying in Iran. They are even seen on the frontlines in case of war.

Seyyed Nasrallah's son was martyred while resisting zionist occupiers in Lebanon. General Hajizadeh's son volunteered to serve in Syria. Mojtaba Khamenei was present at the frontlines during the 1980-1988 Holy Defence. The Supreme Leader himself lost a hand in a bomb attack and has permanently been putting his life at risk in the framework of a just struggle against the biggest and most criminals powers of the day.

The IRGC having been classified as a terrorist organization by the US regime, it would doubly amount to madness for any IRGC officer to send their children to north America. Not that they had been into this practice prior to the US classification anyway.

Economic corruption does tend to have a reducing effect on budgets available for public spending, however this phenomenon exists everywhere and most often on a more systematic and massive scale than in Iran. So this can't be singled out as the prevailing factor when it comes to the equipment of basic Army conscripts.

The most immediate and logical explation was given by PeeD already. Let's quote him again, since this is critical to understand:

These are conscript army soldiers, not much can be expected. They are defensive troops that hold areas.

Then there are Artesh units with higher percentage of professional soldiers which can also do limited offensive operations.

And then there are IRGC GF and Artesh units that are there to do offensive tasks.

Infantry is not Irans real concern, the question is how much money is needed to maintain the Artesh and how much can be derived to IRGC missile forces and that's how Iran managed to get where it is in terms of deterrence today.


There's really nothing to add to the above, except perhaps a reminder that Iran is still a developing country with a GDP situated in the corresponding range, and that its armed forces consist of conscripts. This needs to be kept in mind when comparing with wealthier countries that field smaller sized professional armies as well as (often overlooked) private mercenary corpses functioning as profit-oriented capitalist enterprises.

What is more, unlike other developing countries with no more than a regular conscript army, Iran has a large popular paramilitary organization made of volunteers on top of it (the Basij). With literally millions of members, all of whom need to be equipped. In fact Iran is easily among the top five nations worldwide in terms of total numbers of military men, some rankings even put her in pole position.

This system has many advantages in itself and has played a significant role not only in contributing to Iran's deterrence against outside aggression, but also in guaranteeing Iran's domestic stability, which is unparalleled considering the level of threats faced by Iran. It also serves as a strong element of national integration and cohesion, at a time when powerful enemies have taken aim at the very existence of Iran as a unified nation.

Therefore, to expect that every Iranian soldier will enjoy relatively expensive gear from head to toe is unrealistic. To blame it exclusively on the corruption of some segments of Iran's political class is to ignore key military-related explanatory factors.

you are fooling yourself ...

you can see same trend in evey aspect of Iran ... from Cars , to Trains , To Trucks , To Hospitals ....

why spend money on Iran and Iranian when they can steal it !?
In reality, despite the sanctions regime Iran is unjustly being subjected to, the quality and availability of infrastructures in Iran is very satisfactory compared to countries with similar income levels.

What other developing nation has converted as many simple roads into four-lane expressways?

How many developing nations with comparable income levels have a greater percentage of car owners among their populations, let alone a self-sufficient national auto industry? And that's in spite of the fact that Iran's car industry is to a considerable extent under the control of corrupt liberal elements.

Iranian hospitals on the whole are good enough to attract medical tourism, particularly from places such as "Azarbaijan" Republic and Oman, to name the most prominent ones.


Public transportation has made impressive progress in Iran, particularly in the urban rail sector - here again, Iran is doing much better than most comparable countries. Even in the monarchies of the Persian Gulf, with far superior per capita incomes, major cities still lack metro systems as extensive as Tehran and major provincial capitals of Iran.

And so on, and so forth.

I.R have same policy and mentality as Qajar , in bad days , they even will abandon part of our soil to be in power ....
I'm puzzled as to how one can arrive at such an assessment.

During the Qajar era, Iran was losing territory after territory. When did this happen under the Islamic Republic? Last thing I remember, to prevent even an inch of Iranian soil from being ceded the IR fought tooth and nail for no less than 8 years against Saddam's Baathist invaders (who were backed by virtually the entire world).

Under the Qajars, most of the time Iran made as good as no progress in terms of economic and human development. Contrast this with the strides taken under the Islamic Republic. There's no comparison, as confirmed by every statistical data.

Also Iran's presence and influence beyond her borders (in Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and many other places) today is such that it has the global superpower and its endless list of client states struggling to figure out how to undermine this influence, although every imaginable means short of direct military aggression - against which Iran is succesfully deterring them, has been put into practice in pursuit of that goal. Again no comparison with the defeatist attitude of many Qajar rulers.

The I.R is rotten to the core ...
No. It's actual core, embodied in the actors and institutions loyal to the principles of the 1979 Islamic Revolution (Supreme Leader, IRGC, Hezbollahis, Basijis, arzeshis), is anything but corrupt.

Indeed, the Islamic Republic originally is one of the political systems least prone to economic and financial corruption. In the 1980's, during the war against Iraq, even international bodies were praising Iran for the stunningly low levels of corruption (whether of basic civil servants or at the top of the government).

The corruption we see today is a result of and was generated during the reconstruction years after the war, under the presidency of the late Hashemi Rafsanjani, when economic policy-making took a (relatively speaking) neoliberal direction. It should be noted that back in the day, shortly after Imam Khomeini's passing-away, Rafsanjani used to enjoy greater political influence among the personnel of the state apparatus than the Supreme Leader himself.

It is a consequence of so-called pragmatist/centrist and then liberal reformist rule at the presidential, parliamentary and civil levels. Not a reflection of the I.R.'s original nature. And even so, it is still not exceeding the corruption that plagues capitalist societies around the world. Although of course, it will need to be rooted out once again, as it is unbecoming of an Islamic revolutionary system to tolerate this corruption.

it has nothing with USA or the fight against Zionisim ( maybe only 30 percent of our problem is due sanction ) ,
this is their (I.R) thievery mindset that see Iran as foreign treasure that they should take their share from it as soon as possible ... which turned Iran into this mess ... I don't want to have detail discussion with you , because there is no point of discussion about " white being white ".
They artifically had Tehran Bource to grow rapidly and fooled people to invest their money in stock market , then in past 3 month the stock market is falling while all price are sky roketing ... they simply enjoy it ...
More than 10 million people lost their money in span of 5 month ... even an foreign invader wouldn't do this to our people ...
But, who are 'they'? Not the Islamic Republic as a whole. Iran has an extremely plural power structure, where the involved factions are in fact pursuing completely opposed objectives. Unlike western, liberal so-called "democracies", where main competitors for power hardly differ in their core policy orientations (be it economic policy or foreign policy etc). This is how democratic Iran really is (perhaps too democratic, but that is a separate topic).

Furthermore, the example you cite isn't more shocking than the way citizens were and are being ripped off in countries all over the planet, including in the most wealthy ones.

Are you aware that in a place like Cyprus, savings of private citizens were simply confiscated in 2013 (yes, transferred out of people's bank accounts just like that), in order to save that country's banking system i. e. one of the parties actually responsible for the financial crisis?!

We're talking Cyprus, a freaking member of the European Union! The 1% at the top of Europe's economic hierarchy, swimming as they do in unimaginable, indecent amounts of wealth, were never considered liable by EU authorities nor by European regimes to help compensate the mess caused by years upon years of bankster malpractrice. It was strictly ordinary citizens who had to pay the price.

And how did the European Court rule in this affair? By dismissing compensation claims. Meaning that people's savings were grabbed legally, i. e. EU legislation is openly authorizing such theft:


Or take the widespread fraud by banks and their billionaire owners / managers, which led to the 2008 US financial crisis as another example, consider its devastating consequences on ordinary Americans, realize how it improverished large swaths of the US middle class and then ponder the fact that actual culprits were spared judicial consequences, save a single one symbolically tried to create the illusion of justice.



I shall not even delve into how pharmaceutical and food corporations are allowed by western regimes to poison to death tens of thousands of their citizens for profit each year.

Nor into the numbers of homeless people in said countries (hundreds of thousands of American children alone are deprived of a decent roof above their heads).

Nor into the millions of poor living off food stamps in America.

Again, we're referring to the wealthiest countries on earth, none of which are suffering from the draconian sanctions that hamper Iran's economy!

So this is what the foreign regimes hostile to Iran are doing to their own people. What they'll do to Iranians, should they ever get the chance, is on an entirely different level of abomination and brutality.

A minored version of it can be observed in Iraq or in Afghanistan, two nations right next to Iran wrecked by the zio-American empire. If it can't be expected from the average Iranian to be perfectly in the know of what's really going on in the west, they hardly have an excuse when it comes to the situation of their next-door neighbours.

Such as Iraq, where 500,000 children were killed by the sanctions imposed by Washington in the 90's:


Where the illegal US invasion and subsequent destabilization of the Iraqi nation caused more than a million people to die:


Another very partial glimpse into what the enemy would do to Iranians in case of a succesfull invasion of their country, is offered by the thousands of local men and women abducted and mistreated in torture centers such as the prisons of Abu Ghraib and Bagram, after the US regime under Bush jr. modified its legislation to the effect of having torture legalized.

Of equal significance is how US-led occupation troops shoot and kill civilians for no apparent reason, or how they raped women, in dozen such incidents documented by the corporate mainstream media themselves. Now just imagine the actual recurrence of such crimes once taking into account all unreported instances.




Iran's enemies will create and prop up monstrous terrorist entities such as ISIS, which will sell people's mothers, sisters and daughters on slave markets (no offense).

Which will murder babies, cook their flesh and serve it to their unsuspecting, starving mothers as food, for no other reason than them being of Shia Muslim confession. Indeed, one such case was reported to have occurred in Iraq's Diyaleh province, by none other than the hero whose picture used to adorn your profile, namely shahid Soleimani.

Dear friend, will you suggest that all the above is nothing compared to a Tehran bourse scam, condemnable as that may be? That these hair raising crimes committed by zio-American occupiers and their proxies can objectively even be mentioned in the same breath as whatever wrongdoings against the Iranian people authorities of the Islamic Republic have been guilty of?

Let's not be ungrateful. I truly hope that no Iranian will find out first hand what it means to be occupied by the zio-Americans. Please don't do these bloodthirsty enemies a service by adopting biased outlooks or by letting desires to settle personal scores overtake your general sense of reality.

Truth is that because of the pervasive, omnipresent, tentacular impact of the colossal zio-American psy-ops campaign targeting Iran, many Iranians don't realize how lucky and well off they really are in international comparison.

Some who consider themselves patriotic and believe they are unaffected by zio-American propaganda, at times won't escape its subliminal influence.

There are those glued 24/7 in front of their TV sets consuming psy-ops productions from BBC Persian, Manoto and Saudi International, as well as those who spend their time on zionist-controlled "social media" filled with tons of anti-IR propaganda.

Then you have another category of citizens who tend to avoid these media, who will rely on personal empirical observation and on local press reports, but still end up aligning themselves on the tired mantras of the foreign-concocted "regime change" discourse. Why is that?

For one, much of the national media are not genuinely revolutionary nor faithful to the principles of 1979 to start with, but controlled by the liberal centers of power and fifth column relays of the empire based in Niavaran, Sa'd Abad or Velenjak. Which is sometimes lost on or deliberately ignored by their audience.

For two, the zio-American psy-ops venture is not only conveyed via media assets, but also transmitted by ordinary social gossip, a focal point for the projective venting of social-economic and individual psychological frustrations within Iranian society.

Using advanced social-psychological manipulation tools and techniques, the enemy and its domestic fifth column have managed to generate a pernicious form of anti-IR / counter-revolutionary groupthink amidst particular segments of Iranian society through this very sort of lamentating, often irrational smalltalk and gossip.

So the second category of people mentioned above, will make practical observations and read the local press to gather information about political governance in Iran, but when it comes to interpreting, analyzing this information, they will unconciously be susceptible to direction-shaping input from the general atmosphere prevalent among the groups with which they interact socially, and which might be affected by the enemy's mental engineering endeavours.

As a consequence of zio-American psy-ops, the notion of scale is lost; the comparative reflex, which ought to be natural when analyzing such issues, is lost; and finally the relation to reality itself is lost.

Thence, some Iranians will tend to imprison themselves inside that nihilistic, despair-ridden, gloomy cognitive bubble weaved into their minds by their existential enemy's mighty propaganda apparatus, thereby becoming oblivious to the Islamic Republic's achievements they are indeed benefitting from every day, to the objective reality of their own living conditions in comparative terms, as well as to Iran's geoplitical position and defensive prowess, which has successfully managed to deter the global superpower and its underlying criminal oligarchy from ripping Iran apart like they destroyed numerous other nations in the neighbourhood.
 
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SalarHaqq

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I respect your views...it is not fair for someone such as myself to sit outside and claim to know what is going on inside....but look at it this way...with all the enemies that iran now has any weakness or cracks will result on these outsiders to rip this country apart ...that much I know....IR entered a fight with the most powerful global force of "international Zionizem" without asking the iranian nation if they are willing to do this fight...it is a moral fight but not Iran's fight...so here we are stuck in this war dragging every one with it ...i hope the saying "what does not kill you make you stronger" will prove right for iran.
Just a brief sidenote: if Iran wants to survive as a particular civilization heir to a history of its own, then she has no choice but to resist international zionism. The goal pursued by the global oligarchy, of which international zionism is a leading component, is to dissolve all nations, civilizations and religious traditions, and to erase their specificities and borders into a unified, so-called one world government.

Look at developed countries of the west: already, they have been uprooted to a wide extent, be it economically, culturally, spiritually or as far as their national identities are concerned (for those that had a proper identity to speak of, it's debatable as to whether the US and Canada actually ever fell into this category). They have been largely readied to be gobbled up into the one-world regime. And will find it quite difficult to resurrect as distinct nations and polities relying on historic roots.

The IR's survival is synonymous with Iran's survival and vice versa. But, this wasn't a matter of choice by the Islamic Republic, nor was it really avoidable. Don't forget, their enmity is not just with the IR: it's with Iran as a cohesive, unified and separate nation.

Of course, if Iranians do not care about surviving as a distinct nation and civilization, if they are comfortable with the plans hatched for humanity by the ruling global oligarchy (like some liberal Iranians actually are), then perhaps one could argue that the Islamic Republic's choice for survival isn't justified.

But then, Iranians should be under no illusions that outside of some unexpected, miraculous event by virtue of which power were to change hands at the global scale (and actually end up being grabbed by actors motivated by more desirable goals than the current global oligarchy), they are going to disappear as a people with their own particular identity. That in case Iran stops resisting, then Iranian civilization, language, culture, Iran as a nation-state with delimitated borders, with an army to pride oneself with, with a flag etc, will all be history. If not immediately, then in a few generations from now at most.

It will not be possible to have it both ways, i. e. to survive as a distinct nation-state / civilization / culture, and at the same time to capitulate in the face of the globalist oligarchy. This goes for all nations, as said. Some didn't have a leadership comparable to the Islamic Republic, look at where they are today in civilizational terms.
 
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aryobarzan

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Just a brief sidenote: if Iran wants to survive as a particular civilization heir to a history of its own, then she has no choice but to resist international zionism. The goal pursued by the global oligarchy, of which international zionism is a leading component, is to dissolve all nations, civilizations and religious traditions, and to erase their specificities and borders into a unified, so-called one world government.

Look at developed countries of the west: already, they have been uprooted to a wide extent, be it economically, culturally, spiritually or as far as their national identities are concerned (for those that had a proper identity to speak of, it's debatable as to whether the US and Canada actually ever fell into this category). They have been largely readied to be gobbled up into the one-world regime. And will find it quite difficult to resurrect as distinct nations and polities relying on historic roots.

The IR's survival is synonymous with Iran's survival and vice versa. But, this wasn't a matter of choice by the Islamic Republic, nor was it really avoidable. Don't forget, their enmity is not just with the IR: it's with Iran as a cohesive, unified and separate nation.

Of course, if Iranians do not care about surviving as a distinct nation and civilization, if they are comfortable with the plans hatched for humanity by the ruling global oligarchy (like some liberal Iranians actually are), then perhaps one could argue that the Islamic Republic's choice for survival isn't justified.

But then, Iranians should be under no illusions that outside of some unexpected, miraculous event by virtue of which power were to change hands at the global scale (and actually end up being grabbed by actors motivated by more desirable goals than the current global oligarchy), they are going to disappear as a people with their own particular identity. That in case Iran stops resisting, then Iranian civilization, language, culture, Iran as a nation-state with delimitated borders, with an army to pride oneself with, with a flag etc, will all be history. If not immediately, then in a few generations from now at most.

It will not be possible to have it both ways, i. e. to survive as a distinct nation-state / civilization / culture, and at the same time to capitulate in the face of the globalist oligarchy. This goes for all nations, as said. Some didn't have a leadership comparable to the Islamic Republic, look at where they are today in civilizational terms.
Then choice of being a "separate identity " or being gobled up by "world government" should be clearly explained and offered to the iranian nation through a referandom.
I see the current internal debate in iran is because no one has bothered to formally tabel the choices and explain the pros and cons of each approach...the leadership has decided what is the best choice and expectation has been that the nation will endure the hardship.
 

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