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Hack-Hook

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Never trust Russian arms dealers or spokesman. They overhype their product.

If this was as great as they say it is, then why were prototypes not tested in Syrian conflict? Perfect opportunity. I mean if a Russian automated mini tank can get tested in Syrian conflict (and fail spectacularly) then surely this more capable version of an MLRS system could have been tested.

Seems like they are still searching for a buyer.
Small problem against whom they are supposed to test it ?
 

TheImmortal

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Small problem against whom they are supposed to test it ?
During the civil war, the opposite site was fielding armoured divisions (tanks, apcs, etc), bases, and fortified locations especially in urban areas like East Ghouta.

So if this is as accurate as they say, to point it can even be used safely in urban areas, then why wasn’t it used to clear out the enemy from a safe distance?
 

PeeD

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Hermes is a weapon system made to be used against capable opponents with air defense and APS.

It uses speed to defeat AAA, SHORAD and potential APS. Thats the difference to subsonic Spike-NLOS-like missiles which Iran also uses.

Its Russias next generation ground stand-off weapon and actually not yet necessary as few can even defend against Spike-NLOS class missiles.
 

Sineva

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Never trust Russian arms dealers or spokesman. They overhype their product.

If this was as great as they say it is, then why were prototypes not tested in Syrian conflict? Perfect opportunity. I mean if a Russian automated mini tank can get tested in Syrian conflict (and fail spectacularly) then surely this more capable version of an MLRS system could have been tested.

Seems like they are still searching for a buyer.
Supposedly they either did,or were going to test a variant of it in syria,tho this was the short ranged helo launched anti tank version on the ka52.
https://www.rbth.com/defence/2016/10/28/russia-to-test-new-anti-tank-guided-missiles-in-syria_642965
The idea is actually quite a simple one,they`ve taken the concept of the pantsir 2 stage sam and turned it into an nlos type weapon by replacing the aa interceptor with a laser guided anti tank missile.

The down side is that it appears to need some sort of laser illuminator to indicate the target.I think this is where an atgm with an onboard imager with a wireless datalink,like the spike, might`ve been a more practical idea.
The problem is that this doesnt seem to offer anything more than what an older mlrs retro-fitted with precision guidance could offer,tho I suppose if one was already operating a fleet of attack or gunship helos that were equipped with the air launched version of this weapon then you could use the helos as airborne ilumintor platforms for the long range version of this weapon.
 

PeeD

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This is a fire support weapon, a survivable supersonic one.

When tanks, IFV or infantry can't handle the threat on their own, they request it from rear positions and guide it with their laser illuminators.

Data-linked IIR seeker would be prone to jamming
Fiber wire IIR would not be feasable for supersonic weapon
Fire and forget IIR would need and AI to safely discriminate the target + more issues
Laser beam riding is not easily possible due to NLOS and ballistic approach

So the easiest option is laser illumination, which has its own counters such as spectral aerosol grenades and seeker dazzling.

Still it is (very) good to have for emergency situations where urgent fire support is needed.

PS: its also very effective against helicopters.
 

925boy

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Never trust Russian arms dealers or spokesman. They overhype their product.

If this was as great as they say it is, then why were prototypes not tested in Syrian conflict? Perfect opportunity. I mean if a Russian automated mini tank can get tested in Syrian conflict (and fail spectacularly) then surely this more capable version of an MLRS system could have been tested.

Seems like they are still searching for a buyer.
here you go again....you are attacking Russian weapons saying they are overhyped....stop talking irrelevant things and lets discuss real facts then! why is Russia currently the 2nd largest weapons seller in the world today??? at the end of the day, the sales SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. i just dont like how you start ranting about just a few side points about Russia's military industry to make it look like u have a good point, WHEN YOU DONT. Russian defense industry today is at least in good shape...SU-57s are being produced...T90 is still an awesome tank for how old and cheap it is..or are you just cynical and just cant see the other advances in Russian militarty equipment? even Iran wants Su-35...DONT PLAY BS BRO. Russians have proven to be military innovators, even today...Russian military technology also leads US in some fields, but did you tell anyone here that? NO.you know that most non-Western-friendly countries best fighter aircraft option is Russian... Even India that has access to US military inventory, still buys Russian equipment, so stop being a hater and overgeneralizing them as bad...
 

TheImmortal

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This is a fire support weapon, a survivable supersonic one.

When tanks, IFV or infantry can't handle the threat on their own, they request it from rear positions and guide it with their laser illuminators.

Data-linked IIR seeker would be prone to jamming
Fiber wire IIR would not be feasable for supersonic weapon
Fire and forget IIR would need and AI to safely discriminate the target + more issues
Laser beam riding is not easily possible due to NLOS and ballistic approach

So the easiest option is laser illumination, which has its own counters such as spectral aerosol grenades and seeker dazzling.

Still it is (very) good to have for emergency situations where urgent fire support is needed.

PS: its also very effective against helicopters.
Like I said, it would have been a good vehicle for Syrian conflict especially dense urban battles like East Ghouta and Homs and Battle of Aleppo. instead of SAA + IRGC + HZ waiting on Russian air support, You could have had these sitting far behind frontlines and forward operators using laser designators.

Instead Syria was stuck using MLRS and sometimes it brought the deadly TOS-1 with its thermobaric warheads, but again those aren’t precise weapons for urban fighting when friendly allies are in the area as well.

It’s use may for against traditional conventional opponents, but I can see a fine use in urban battles versus insurgents or terrorists as well.

Since Iran has laser guided artillery shells, building a laser guided MLRS like device shouldn’t be too hard. Now Iran may have trouble in the supersonic area. But it’s not a major obstacle.
 

Iskander

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Like I said, it would have been a good vehicle for Syrian conflict especially dense urban battles like East Ghouta and Homs and Battle of Aleppo. instead of SAA + IRGC + HZ waiting on Russian air support, You could have had these sitting far behind frontlines and forward operators using laser designators.

Instead Syria was stuck using MLRS and sometimes it brought the deadly TOS-1 with its thermobaric warheads, but again those aren’t precise weapons for urban fighting when friendly allies are in the area as well.

It’s use may for against traditional conventional opponents, but I can see a fine use in urban battles versus insurgents or terrorists as well.

Since Iran has laser guided artillery shells, building a laser guided MLRS like device shouldn’t be too hard. Now Iran may have trouble in the supersonic area. But it’s not a major obstacle.
Even Turkey developed a laser guided MLRS using drones to designate targets and i don't know why Iran doesn't adopt such an option
 

Ich

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Even Turkey developed a laser guided MLRS using drones to designate targets and i don't know why Iran doesn't adopt such an option
They have.

Edit:

Or better "they have the capabillity and sure tested such things long ago".
 
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TheImmortal

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Even Turkey developed a laser guided MLRS using drones to designate targets and i don't know why Iran doesn't adopt such an option
Laser guidance munitions are a tricky sort since target needs to be lasered. And MLRS are made to soften targets before you move troops in. So a laser based MLRS is basically on a different philosophy usage than a regular MLRS. So that makes lasered MLRS a more niche product where urban warfare is an ideal usage. I guess you could use a UAV to laser the target. Something like a future high altitude Simorgh lasering targets for the Hermès.
 
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PeeD

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It’s use may for against traditional conventional opponents, but I can see a fine use in urban battles versus insurgents or terrorists as well.

Since Iran has laser guided artillery shells, building a laser guided MLRS like device shouldn’t be too hard. Now Iran may have trouble in the supersonic area. But it’s not a major obstacle.
And thats the point: Its not made for a traditional conventional opponent but for a future advanced opponent that intercepts your ATGM and stand-off NLOS subsonic weapons.

In Syria thermobaric Kornets are the ideal weapon for such fire support as the enemy is not sufficiently mobile and armored to create emergency situations. Emergency situations in Syria are best handled by Dehlaviye.

But I bet it was sill tested in Syria in a special mission behind enemy lines at some point.

@Iskander

Iran has already a Fajr-4 variant with laser homing.
 

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