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Iranian Chill Thread

Hack-Hook

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Huh? It's incumbent upon those making an allegation to substantiate it with proof, not the other way around.

Russia wasn't assuming it would be a quick war. There's no evidence to the contrary, including in the deployment, movement and offensive maneuvers of the Russian army.
Russia not only yet to stop bombing of donbas but also have to do something with bombing of Crimea , if joining of Ukraine to NATO was of question before it , it become a certainty and as a result Sweden and Finland also want to join NATO.
about Neo-Nazis in Ukraine , as result of war they become stronger and strengthen their hold on Ukraine.
now the question what Russia achieved in last 6 month , what goal they fulfilled . did Ukraine army become weaker? did Russia stopped Ukraine become closer to USA , did Russia manage to weaken Neo-Nazis hold on Ukraine , did they manage to slow western weapon inflow into Ukraine . did they manage to demilitarize Ukraine ?

all because they failed to let go of their WW2 warfare mentality and use their force effectively , all because they failed they must deny enemy freedom of making moves. i say western style of warfare was more effective
 

Oldman1

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Russia not only yet to stop bombing of donbas but also have to do something with bombing of Crimea , if joining of Ukraine to NATO was of question before it , it become a certainty and as a result Sweden and Finland also want to join NATO.
about Neo-Nazis in Ukraine , as result of war they become stronger and strengthen their hold on Ukraine.
now the question what Russia achieved in last 6 month , what goal they fulfilled . did Ukraine army become weaker? did Russia stopped Ukraine become closer to USA , did Russia manage to weaken Neo-Nazis hold on Ukraine , did they manage to slow western weapon inflow into Ukraine . did they manage to demilitarize Ukraine ?

all because they failed to let go of their WW2 warfare mentality and use their force effectively , all because they failed they must deny enemy freedom of making moves. i say western style of warfare was more effective
Read the Russians arrested a couple of so called Islamic terrorists that were responsible for the attacks in Crimea in service of Ukraine.
 

SalarHaqq

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Russia not only yet to stop bombing of donbas but also have to do something with bombing of Crimea , if joining of Ukraine to NATO was of question before it , it become a certainty and as a result Sweden and Finland also want to join NATO.
about Neo-Nazis in Ukraine , as result of war they become stronger and strengthen their hold on Ukraine.
now the question what Russia achieved in last 6 month , what goal they fulfilled . did Ukraine army become weaker? did Russia stopped Ukraine become closer to USA , did Russia manage to weaken Neo-Nazis hold on Ukraine , did they manage to slow western weapon inflow into Ukraine . did they manage to demilitarize Ukraine ?

all because they failed to let go of their WW2 warfare mentality and use their force effectively , all because they failed they must deny enemy freedom of making moves. i say western style of warfare was more effective

None of this is proof that Russian decision makers were expecting a particularly rapid campaign. My challenge remains unanswered.

As for Ukraine not having become weaker, sure... countries which lose territory, tremendous amounts of manpower and key infrastructures gain in strength! :lol: A new theorem has just been forged by the quoted user.

And "WW2 mentality" etc - I've no time to waste on rhetoric that parrots NATO propaganda. Russia is effective, Russia is achieving her goals and there's nothing the western imperialists you're looking up to can do about it .
 
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Hack-Hook

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None of this is proof that Russian decision makers were expecting a particularly rapid campaign. My challenge remains unanswered.

As for Ukraine not having become weaker, sure... countries which lose territory, tremendous amount of manpower and key infrastructures gain in strength! :lol: A new theorem has just been forged by the quoted user.

And "WW2 mentality" etc - I've no time to waste here on rhetoric that parrots NATO propaganda. Russia is effective, Russia is achieving her goals and there's nothing the western imperialists you're looking up to can do about it .
well in first days of war Russia advanced so fast , now they fight several weak to advance one or two km . and according to you Russia is not loosing equipment and personnel ?

you didn't answered any part of my question . and again just claimed Russia wanted this war to extend. well let for the sake of discussion say you are correct . i put forward my reasoning that you strategically not answered but tried to evade . what's your reasoning for your claims that Russia wanted the war to continue and Russia achieved it's goals ?
 

SalarHaqq

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you didn't answered any part of my question . and again just claimed Russia wanted this war to extend. well let for the sake of discussion say you are correct . i put forward my reasoning that you strategically not answered but tried to evade . what's your reasoning for your claims that Russia wanted the war to continue and Russia achieved it's goals ?

What exactly are you arguing about now? Russia is continuing its campaign because mission objectives have to be fully completed.

My point was about the oft repeated claim that Moscow grossly underestimated its adversary and believed its military operation wouldn't last for more than a couple of weeks (and subsequent conclusions that Russian intelligence, planning and conduct of operations have been faulty).

However, none of those making the claim have so far produced actual evidence that Russia was expecting an earlier victory. Therefore this is simply unsubstantiated conjecture. As such, we should stop treating it as established fact.
 
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May 22, 2022
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What are exactly are you arguing about now? Russia is continuing its campaign because mission objectives have to be fully completed.

My point was about the oft repeated claim that Moscow grossly underestimated its adversary and believed its military operation wouldn't last for more than a couple of weeks (and subsequent conclusions that Russian intelligence, planning and conduct of operations have been faulty).

However, none of those making the claim can produce actual evidence that Russia expected an earlier victory. Therefore this is simply an unsubstantiated conjecture. As such, it should stop being treated as established fact.
It is asinine statements like like these which ultimately led me to adopt the philosophy that the Iranian Revolution was 80% beneficial and 20% disaster. They gave birth to ignoramuses, yes-men and denialists like yourself ("muh Seyyid Ali said so and the rushyunz iz our ah-lies!") and ever-whining critics like our beloved "But muh-!" @Hack-Hook (although on his analysis on russian performance, he is near 100% right).

NO ONE SENDS A 40KM CONVOY OF ARMOUR AND LOGISTICS VEHICLES TOWARDS THE CAPITAL CITY OF A COUNTRY IT INVADED JUST TO TURN BACK. Read this statement as many times it takes to sink in. They went for the throat but found an iron collar protected it and backtracked when they risked losing their teeth to get at it.
 

SalarHaqq

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It is asinine statements like like these which ultimately led me to adopt the philosophy that the Iranian Revolution was 80% beneficial and 20% disaster. They gave birth to ignoramuses, yes-men and denialists like yourself ("muh Seyyid Ali said so and the rushyunz iz our ah-lies!") and ever-whining critics like our beloved "But muh-!" @Hack-Hook (although on his analysis on russian performance, he is near 100% right).

NO ONE SENDS A 40KM CONVOY OF ARMOUR AND LOGISTICS VEHICLES TOWARDS THE CAPITAL CITY OF A COUNTRY IT INVADED JUST TO TURN BACK. Read this statement as many times it takes to sink in. They went for the throat but found an iron collar protected it and backtracked when they risked losing their teeth to get at it.

Look, instead of imagining this interpretation you repeat about the "40 km convoy" represents an obvious indisputable finding, just listen to the following analyses offered by a military expert:




We've discussed the initial Russian thrust towards Kiev already. When I explained what this classic deceptive maneuver was really about, your counters turned illogical and ultimately boiled down to "Russians are just irrational". Thence, my position on this is clear. No need to quote me to bring this subject up again.
 
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May 22, 2022
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Look, instead of imagining that this interpretation you repeat about the "40 km convoy" represents an obvious indisputable finding, listen to the following analyses offered by a military expert:




We discussed the initial Russian thrust towards Kiev already. When I explained what this classic deceptive maneuver was really about, your counters turned illogical and ultimately boiled down to "Russians are just irrational". Thence, my position on this is clear. No need to quote me to bring this subject up again.
Two opinion videos by a guy who no military experience and a 2:15:43 livestream? Brother, I'm more amused than irritated but pretty sad at the same time...sad because you're little more than a rubber stamp for an antiquated method of discourse which the government lets proliferate among the pro-Iranian bloc for some reason in a rather ill-advised move.

The section at 15:55 of this video - "Was Kyiv a feint?"

The whole section is 3 minutes and 22 seconds long (up to 19:18 mark); you may watch it if you wish. My pen is lifted on this topic from now.

Bonus video on the "Kyiv feint" (but this is a pro-western channel, just so you know) -

Brother Bear 💚!

Eurasian brown bear in northern Iran.

B866oAt2shwp0x5t969KrzimSJheCXC9q7xWm7JB.jpg
 

SalarHaqq

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Two opinion videos by a guy who no military experience and a 2:15:43 livestream? Brother, I'm more amused than irritated but pretty sad at the same time...sad because you're little more than a rubber stamp for an antiquated method of discourse which the government lets proliferate among the pro-Iranian bloc for some reason in a rather ill-advised move.

The section at 15:55 of this video - "Was Kyiv a feint?"

The whole section is 3 minutes and 22 seconds long (up to 19:18 mark); you may watch it if you wish. My pen is lifted on this topic from now.

Bonus video on the "Kyiv feint" (but this is a pro-western channel, just so you know) -

Brother Bear 💚!

Eurasian brown bear in northern Iran.

View attachment 871565

I've no relation to any government, and my assessment isn't even taken from official Iranian discourse.

Naturally, any source in line with western regimes will try hard to deny the obvious regarding the Russian foray near Kiev. Can't say I'm surprised now, can I?

However, to label Scott Ritter (the analyst featured in all those videos) as an individual deprived of military experience couldn't be farther from the truth, considering he's a former USA Marine Corps intelligence officer who participated in Operation Desert Storm. Not to mention a former UN arms inspector who conducted missions in the USSR and Iraq. So he is very much qualified to speak on the topic.

Take it or leave it, but whatever you chose to think, Ritter's standpoint is a well informed one based upon sound rational argumentation.
 
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May 22, 2022
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I've no relation to any government, and my assessment isn't even taken from official Iranian discourse.

Of course any source in line with western regimes will try hard to deny the obvious regarding the Russian foray near Kiev. Can't say I'm surprised now, can I?

However, to label Scott Ritter (the person interviewed in all those videos) as a person deprived of military experience couldn't be farther from the truth, considering that Ritter is a former USA Marine Corps intelligence officer who participated in Operation Desert Storm no less. Not to mention a former UN arms inspector. So he is very much qualified to speak on the topic.

Take it or leave it, but whatever you chose to think, Ritter's standpoint is a well informed one based upon sound rational argumentation.
I'll meant the syrian guy, not the american.

I'll watch ritter's livestream but not all at once - two hours listening to people talk is a little too much.
 

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