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sha ah

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Looks like bread sales in Iran are down 60%-70%. Not surprising. Who is the world is willing to pay 10x more for bread from one day to the next ? I said it, if bread prices go up by 10x then people will simply avoid buying bread and buy alternatives like rice, barley, vegetables, beans. etc

Now vendors will either have to sell already produced stock at discount or throw it away. Prices will fluctuate according to supply and demand until they eventually settle to a rate consumers are willing to accept. With soaring food prices more people will buy flour and bake their own bread or begin gardening in their spare time.
 

sha ah

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WOW An update on Mariupol. All together since Monday, 960 Ukrainian troops have surrendered to Russian forces. These guys look like they're in really rough shape. Eye patches, crutches, ambulances necessary... They look more like a bunch of emaciated drug addicts rather than a proper and glorious military. I'm just waiting to see how the western mainstream media are going to try and spin this as a success for Ukraine.


 
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sha ah

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So before the war Ukraine's GDP was around $150 billion a year. They are now expecting their GDP to be cut in half. So let's say $75 billion a year. Estimates to rebuild Ukrainian infrastructure and housing range from $600 billion to $1 trillion dollars.

That's just for reconstruction efforts. Never mind all the weapons, the interest that Ukraine will have to pay for those weapons for decades to come. The UK just finished paying off the USA for all the costs associated with WW2, all the interest and everything, just last year. It took 75 years for the UK to pay off their WW2 era debt to the USA.

Especially if Ukraine, by the end of the war, is cut off from the Black Sea, they will be in an extremely precarious and vulnerable situation. The rump state that remains out of Ukraine, if it remains pro western, will be financially in chains for generations to come.

Only after this war is concluded and emotions simmer down will the Ukrainian people realize that they were duped in order to fill the coffers of the US military industrial complex and that Zelensky was nothing more than an actor, a frontman who left them to their fate.

Zelensky is reported by the Pandora papers to be worth 1.3 billion with a $30 million dollar villa in Florida. After the war, I wouldn't be surprised if you find him in that villa, heavily guarded, toasting with a who's who of the military industrial complex and warharwks. I'm just wondering what his commission is for doing all this.

 

TheImmortal

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Looks like bread sales in Iran are down 60%-70%. Not surprising. Who is the world is willing to pay 10x more for bread from one day to the next ? I said it, if bread prices go up by 10x then people will simply avoid buying bread and buy alternatives like rice, barley, vegetables, beans. etc

Now vendors will either have to sell already produced stock at discount or throw it away. Prices will fluctuate according to supply and demand until they eventually settle to a rate consumers are willing to accept. With soaring food prices more people will buy flour and bake their own bread or begin gardening in their spare time.

Bread isn’t even that good for you. It’s a modern human invention. In long run, society will be healthier. Look at how many fitness individuals or athletes have bread in their diet. It is very telling.

It’s the rise of prices of meat and poultry that is more worrying.
 

SalarHaqq

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There are multiple levels of "capitalism" and also there are multiple levels of "communism".

let's say 0 is ultimate "communism" which is a system where everyone gets equal share of wealth and power.this is the worst type possible because capabilities of people are very different.

Then 1 is ultimate "capitalism" where all power and wealth belongs to one man and he decides what's best for everyone else.you may see this case in ancient Egyptian kingdoms.
View attachment 845079
Another "capitalism" model in ancient Iran.28 ambassadors of different regions carry king on their toes (simbolic sign of no pressure).

Today there are multiple governing models around the world and if you want to categorize each model I guess you won't even find a 0 to 0.2 communism or 1 to 0.6 capitalism.

Perhaps you may want to use "socialism" rather than "communism" here because a study of the authors who coined and expanded upon the latter concept (I'd recommend Marx, as well as participants to radical movements such as Bordiga or Luxemburg) will show that it is the perfect antithesis of anything associated with capital: where there's remunerated work, where there's a state and a government, where there is social hierarchy, where there's currency and private property, where there's merely as little as a primitive form of society, there cannot be communism. Society itself is one of many corollaries of capital, for prior to the advent of civilisation and capital, humans were living in communities not societies (these two concepts are markedly distinct from one another).

Communism according to its proponents is definitely the pre-capitalist state of non-alienation, a wholly different anthropological setting to which humans are set to return, so communists argue, as a result of a radical revolution that is supposed to wipe out capitalism once the latter reaches its terminal phase, historically induced by the dialectic social processes of the class struggle between workers and capitalists.

So there can be no halfway, slightly or mostly communist system. The term neither refers to a type of political and institutional order, nor exclusively to a way of organizing economic relations, but is to be understood on a yet deeper level. We cannot say that wealth in a communist system is equally distributed between individuals, because in a communist community by definition the notion of quantitatively measured wealth is inexistent. Marketed commodities and services do not exist, nor does trade including barter. The relationship between individual and community on the one hand, and between individual and society on the other are radically different.
 
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Cancerous Tumor

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Perhaps you may want to use "socialism" rather than "communism" here because a study of the authors who coined and expanded upon the latter concept (I'd recommend Marx, as well as participants to radical movements such as Bordiga or Luxemburg) will show that it is the perfect antithesis of anything associated with capital: where there's remunerated work, where there's a state and a government, where there is social hierarchy, where there's currency and private property, where there's merely as little as a primitive form of society, there cannot be communism. Society itself is one of many corollaries of capital, for prior to the advent of civilisation and capital, humans were living in communities not societies (these two concepts are markedly distinct from one another).

Communism according to its proponents is definitely the pre-capitalist state of non-alienation, a wholly different anthropological setting to which humans are set to return, so communists argue, as a result of a radical revolution that is supposed to wipe out capitalism once the latter reaches its terminal phase, historically induced by the dialectic social processes of the class struggle between workers and capitalists.

So there can be no halfway, slightly or mostly communist system. The term neither refers to a type of political and institutional order, nor exclusively to a way of organizing economic relations, but is to be understood on a yet deeper level. We cannot say that wealth in a communist system is equally distributed between individuals, because in a communist community by definition the notion of quantitatively measured wealth is inexistent. Marketed commodities and services do not exist, nor does trade including barter. The relationship between individual and community on the one hand, and between individual and society on the other are radically different.
In regards to communism and socialism, wasn't socialism the tool they used in their government system ?

I always have hard time when I think about a concept in theoretical point of view vs practical one then somehow I lean toward practical ones and take them as important one.not just what communism promised and what they delivered but in comparison vs others too.

Imagine today we find a intelligent being on moon and bring it to earth then educate it about these two capitalism and communism models.then we show two models of cars sales to this intelligent being :

a. A model when sales of cars are based on costumer demands.
b. A model when sales are based on producers desires.

how does this intelligent being categorize these two models ?which one belongs to which school of thought ?
 

Hack-Hook

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Looks like bread sales in Iran are down 60%-70%. Not surprising. Who is the world is willing to pay 10x more for bread from one day to the next ? I said it, if bread prices go up by 10x then people will simply avoid buying bread and buy alternatives like rice, barley, vegetables, beans. etc

Now vendors will either have to sell already produced stock at discount or throw it away. Prices will fluctuate according to supply and demand until they eventually settle to a rate consumers are willing to accept. With soaring food prices more people will buy flour and bake their own bread or begin gardening in their spare time.
You certainly showed you don't live in Iran.
All you mentioned is more expensive than bread

Bread isn’t even that good for you. It’s a modern human invention. In long run, society will be healthier. Look at how many fitness individuals or athletes have bread in their diet. It is very telling.

It’s the rise of prices of meat and poultry that is more worrying.
Medical community point of view about processed bread and whole grain bread is a lot different.
 

sha ah

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Yeah I don't live in Iran, but I've read that the price of bread went up 10x, while most others went up 3x because the government dropped subsidies.

You certainly showed you don't live in Iran.
All you mentioned is more expensive than bread


Medical community point of view about processed bread and whole grain bread is a lot different.

Lira crashes, Rial at 300,000 vs USD

1652939903114.png


1652939997493.png
 

Hack-Hook

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Yeah I don't live in Iran, but I've read that the price of bread went up 10x, while most others went up 3x because the government dropped subsidies.



Lira crashes, Rial at 300,000 vs USD

View attachment 845294

View attachment 845295
The price you pay for bread didn't change for traditional baked bread at least till the end of the year .

By the way rice price is 90000 toman for a kilogram
You can get 10 lavash bread for 5000 to 6500 toman. So no rice is always 10 time the price of wheat and barley is also a little more expensive than wheat. And honestly it's not in mainstream Iranian food at least for last 200 years.
 

sha ah

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So it's $3 a kilo for rice ? What grade of rice and from where ? Corner store ? medium sized retailer ? wholesale retailer ? It depends, but that sounds like a pretty standard global price. If Iran imports rice and isn't subsidizing then that's how much it will be. Anyways 4 kilos of rice is a decent amount for a family of 3.

I honestly don't know, only what I read in articles or what I hear from people / family / friends. From what I can see and from what I'm reading, prices / inflation are soaring everywhere. A global food crisis and a global recession seem very likely at the moment.

The price you pay for bread didn't change for traditional baked bread at least till the end of the year .

By the way rice price is 90000 toman for a kilogram
You can get 10 lavash bread for 5000 to 6500 toman. So no rice is always 10 time the price of wheat and barley is also a little more expensive than wheat. And honestly it's not in mainstream Iranian food at least for last 200 years.
 

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