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Iranian army air force commander travels to Pakistan

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khansaheeb

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Gentlemen please refrain from using religion to judge one another. Do understand that religion is often an excuse for power politics. Yes, we must not forget Shia-Sunni bloodshed in Pakistan in '80s & '90s, but we are past that now. We must engage Iran based on realpolitik & regional geopolitical calculus. Based on that alone, the case for sharing weapons programs with interdependencies are not a good idea. There is a definite trust deficit as far as Pakistan is concerned. Long gone are the days of the Shah of Iran when Pakistan & Iran had very close relations. Iran seems to have turned a corner in 1979 & they do not seem to value our relations to the degree that we had before 1979.

I can not ignore Iran's diplomatic support to India on the issue of kashmir, starting in 1993. If I remember correctly, Iran was the first major Muslim country to do that & it really damaged our case. Kashmiris (a significant proportion of whom are Shia) chanted slogans of "marg bar Iran" in streets of Sri Nagar.

So, it is unlikely that Pakistan would want to improve relations by creating interdependencies at this time. Iranians need to pull back from foreign adventures & repair their reputation among their neighbors. This is the sane thing to do & without it we can not go much further at all apart from improving some trade ties to a limited extent. Due to purely fiscal reasons Pakistan can not help arm Iran against GCC, even if a decision-maker in Pakistan wanted to do so.
This is not quite true as when ever Iran and Pakistan attempted to improve relations foreign entities always put a wedge in between. Whether it be the Arabs or the US they always had their own agendas to follow and took advantage of Pakistan's poor economic standing to strategically orientate Pakistan in the direction of their choosing and create friction and disunity with Iran. The new world turmoil has opened eyes and made the military and politicians realise that only through harmony, peace and trade will create a stable and prosperous regional future.-"Iran seems to have turned a corner in 1979 & they do not seem to value our relations to the degree that we had before 1979."
 

Chak Bamu

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This is not quite true as when ever Iran and Pakistan attempted to improve relations foreign entities always put a wedge in between. Whether it be the Arabs or the US they always had their own agendas to follow and took advantage of Pakistan's poor economic standing to strategically orientate Pakistan in the direction of their choosing and create friction and disunity with Iran. The new world turmoil has opened eyes and made the military and politicians realise that only through harmony, peace and trade will create a stable and prosperous regional future.-"Iran seems to have turned a corner in 1979 & they do not seem to value our relations to the degree that we had before 1979."
IIRC, no one could drive a wedge before 1979. Why did it start to happen after 1979? If any thing changed, it did so at Iran's end & not Pakistan's. It is reasonable to assume that the reorientation of Iranian policies is the driver of the dynamic, not any change from Pakistan's side. If a relation can be soured by driving a wedge, then it clearly means that the relation was not strong anyway.

I gave a specific example of Iran choosing to side with India over Kashmir issue - from 1993/4 onwards. Henceafter, Iran paid lip service to Kashmir issue, but practically supported India. This shows that Iranian policy is based on pragmatism, not idealism. They preferred ties with India over ties with Pakistan. Indians then ditched Iran ten years or so ago as their interests aligned with USA.

So you see it is pointless to expect Pakistan to strive in making the mutual ties strong again. Iran needs to re-evaluate its regional policies & priorities. Only then can Pakistan be expected to reciprocate. I do not need to recount recent history to emphasize this.
 
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IIRC, no one could drive a wedge before 1979. Why did it start to happen after 1979? If any thing changed, it did so at Iran's end & not Pakistan's. It is reasonable to assume that the reorientation of Iranian policies is the driver of the dynamic, not any change from Pakistan's side. If a relation can be soured by driving a wedge, then it clearly means that the relation was not strong anyway.

I gave a specific example of Iran choosing to side with India over Kashmir issue - from 1993/4 onwards. Henceafter, Iran paid lip service to Kashmir issue, but practically supported India. This shows that Iranian policy is based on pragmatism, not idealism. They preferred ties with India over ties with Pakistan. Indians then ditched Iran ten years or so ago as their interests aligned with USA.

So you see it is pointless to expect Pakistan to strive in making the mutual ties strong again. Iran needs to re-evaluate its regional policies & priorities. Only then can Pakistan be expected to reciprocate. I do not need to recount recent history to emphasize this.
People will still blame Pakistan and will argue that Pakistan chose to leave Iran under US/West pressure but look US/West also pressured us to leave China and China was not a superpower at that time but we managed to keep our relations good with China despite being cold war ally of US.

@khansaheeb plz try to understand that it was Iran itself who reoriented its policies and chose India over Pakistan while thinking that India being Soviet ally will help them against USA and they did literally did everything to please India but India never did anything that could have helped Iran against US
 

One_Nation

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Why do you care? You are neither Arab, Maghrebi nor Iranic-Turkic. The Shia Sunni rivalry is a MENA thing of the past, Fatimid (Maghreb)-Abbasi (Saudi) then Ottoman (Anatolian Turkoman)-Safavid (Iranian Turkoman). Your country's DNA and culture is not even distantly related to MENA groups that have been involved in Shia Sunni rivalry. You are Sunni or Shia based upon under which Turko-Iranic colonial Lords or invaders of South Asia your ancestors converted to Islam, The region that your country is built upon has a history of receiving Islamic input from the Iranic plateau (post-Islam, started with Tajik Ghoris, ended with Azeri Afshar and Afghan Durrani invasion of India). You should feel proud to be a Muslim with your own identity different from North Indians because of these invasions. But you are trying to ruin that by getting involved in an inner MENA power grab conflict that you are not part of and will only hurt your national unity. If you are smart you will not do that anymore.

How conveniently you left out your main "contributor" Nader Shah.

If those warlords, rapists, plunders could convert our people into Islam then British would have turned us all into Christians fairly easily.

Just be honest and admit that everyone's Islamic input including yours has come from Arabs.
 

drmeson

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How conveniently you left out your main "contributor" Nader Shah.

wtf lol I mentioned Azeri Afshar invasion of India did I not? You need to read again. Nader Shah's Azeri Qizilibash from Iran at their peak were almost unstoppable, there is a reason he is called napoleon of Asia.

If those warlords, rapists, plunders could convert our people into Islam then British would have turned us all into Christians fairly easily.

Why are you pissed that you got converted to Islam? Is not that considered a gift in Islamic societies that we follow a hygienic respectful religion?

And your logic is wrong, British were not a religious empire, they never forced religious conversions in their colonies. They can not be equated to warlords of MENA/CA who have always been religious zealots.

Just be honest and admit that everyone's Islamic input including yours has come from Arabs.

Actually a big NO!

The religion we follow, Shia Islam came from forced conversions under Qizilbash Turkomans (modern day Iranian Azeris and Kurds with Persian Vakils) called the Safavids! All types of Arabs at that time were colonized by Turkomans of Iran and Anatolia so they had zero power. Such was the might of Qizilbash that had we wanted, we would have converted the entire region into Tengrism (our old Turkic religion) or Zarostrianism (Persian/Kurd religion) or whatever they would have wanted but they wanted Islam and rather a Iranicised version of Islam so they used native Safavid order teachings. The religion we follow is a Turkoman gift, nothing to do with Arabs. Arabs are great at literature and teachings but they were a non entity by that time Lol we used to fight wars with Ottomans on Arab lands, Arab used to fight for both sides by that time.
 

Taimoor Khan

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Till the next terrorist attack in Baluchistan and ISI chief running to Tehran. Back to sq one. Seen this sh|t over and over again.

All these camera ops are useless till Iran cleanse its soil of all the terrorist safe heavens and the Indian ingress it has allowed within. And there is a small matter of Mossad and Cia assests within its intel setup who will be more the willing to poke Pakistan at the right times. In nutshell, Iran needs to self cleanse itself pretty damn fast.

Best thing though:

1646150675834.png
 

drmeson

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First it was the arabs for 400 years and then much later the Turkics

nah boy, not much later, your entire map has been under Turko-Iranics for more than a Millenium starting from 861 AD-whenever the British arrived in India. Arab rule was there but was limited to the coastal state of Sindh and left no mark because you people did not speak (a) Arabic but Persian (an Iranic language) was your official/Ruling class language for centuries. (b) J1-M267, the martial Arab haplogroup of Hashemits, Rashiduns and Umayyads is almost missing in Pakistan despite all the Syed claims. All in all Arab legacy in south asia is much much much lesser than Irano-Turkic legacy.

Here is the story of Turko-Iranic legacy in Pakistan (lets assume you always existed as a separate entity).

Saffarid (Persian)

Saffarid_dynasty_861-1003.png


Samanid (Tajik/Persian, Famous for creating the mamluk Turkic Slave entity)

308px-Samanid_dynasty_%28819%E2%80%93999%29.GIF


Ghaznavid (Mamluk Turks)

ghaznavids-c375aca1-404c-41fc-aac2-3c6c04e3158-resize-750.jpeg


Ghori (Tajiks)

Ghori_Dynasty_1149-1212_%28AD%29.png


Mamluk (Turkic from Samanids)

Mamluk_dynasty_1206_-_1290_ad.GIF


Khalaj (Turkic or Iranic ?)

429px-Khilji_dynasty_1290_-_1320_ad.PNG


Tughlaq (Mamluk)

Tughlaq_dynasty_1321_-_1398_ad.PNG


Timurid (Turko-Mongols but highly Turkified/Iranicised in culture and Language)

Timurid_Dynasty_821_-_873_%28AH%29.png


Lodhi (Ghilzai Afghan)

lodhi-dynasty.jpg


Mughal (Uzbek Turks of Mixed regional origin)

Mughal_Empire_%281700%29.png


Suri (Afghan)

Shershahsuriempire.jpg


Saffavid (Azeris majorly, Kurds, Persians, Afghans included)

main-qimg-98bc13eccbf0f1b55cfd5edb371f8f54


Afshar (Iranian Turkoman, later became Azeris)

main-qimg-2ad579c52326425856cb1313d79a8dec


Durrani (Bactarian Afghan)

250px-Durrani_Empire_1747_1862_AD.png


Ghori's origin are shrouded in mystery esp. because he didnt have any off-springs.His successor was a turkic (Aibak)..

whatever your local school is teaching you is not agreed by world-renowned western Professors with more peer-reviewed publications than anyone. Ghori empires Tajik descent is written by authentic western research professors like emeritus Prof. Andre Wink, and Prof. Bosworth from top universities in the world. Please read the work of western scholars with peer-reviewed authentic conclusions on Tajik origin of Ghori Empire which ruled India:-
"The Shansabānī dynasty superseded the Ghaznavids in the second half of the twelfth century. This dynasty was not of Turkish, nor even Afghan, but of eastern Tājīk origin, speaking a distinct Persian dialect of its own, like the rest of the inhabitants of the remote and isolated mountain region of Ghūr and its capital of Fīrūzkūh (in what is now central Afghanistan)"

References
  1. Encyclopaedia of Islam, "Ghurids", C.E. Bosworth, Online Edition, 2006: "... The Shansabānīs were, like the rest of the Ghūrīs, of eastern Iranian Tājik stock ..."
  2. Wink 2020, p. 78.
  3. Bosworth 2001b, pp. 586–590.
  4. Wink, André (2010). "The early expansion of Islam in India". In Morgan, David O.; Reid, Anthony (eds.). The New Cambridge History of Islam, Volume 3: The Eastern Islamic World, Eleventh to Eighteenth Centuries. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 96. ISBN 978-0-521-85031-5.

Challenge Wink and Bosworth ? be my Guest.

and you seem to think that Turkic is like some different thing than Iranic. We Oghuz Turkic of west Asia and Iranics are almost the same people genetically and even culturally, look at our almost same genetics in a plot below. Iranian and Turkic are more of a cultural identity then anything else. Almost every country in west Asia is Turko-Iranic mixture and we have never fought a single war with eachother post Islam over ethnicity. Groups that ruled you or gave you Islam were also mixture of these ethnicities and cultures.

Iran (Azeri, Persian, Kurdish)
Turkey (Turkish, Kurdish)
Azerbaijan (Azeri, Talysh, Tats, Kurds)
Afghanistan (Tajik, Pashtun, Uzbek)
Tajikistan (Tajik, Pashtun, Uzbek)
Uzbekistan (Uzbek, Tajik)

main-qimg-05b478501db7e09d7872b38a63163924-pjlq


Nader shah was also a turkic but from safavid empire

Wrong. Nader shah was a Turkoman from Afshar tribe in Iran, has nothing to do with Safavids who were Turkified Kurds. We Afshars are Proud Iranians. The current Chief of Iranian Armed Forces is also an Afshar Turk (General Bagheri).

And his commander durrani was born in Multan (Pakistan)...he was a local..

And I am a slavic LOCAL man of Europe because I was born in a slavic country. wtf. Getting born in a place with foreign genetics and culture does not make one a local, esp if the man in question is a colonizing master in Ahmed Shah's case. By your theory, some 20 Greek Kings born in North India were also Indians just because their daddy's were greek rulers of North India or even better, British rulers of India who may have had children born in India must have been Indians right? Locals like their colonized race.

To differentiate between Hepthalite/Abdali/Durrani Afghans and Punjabi Pakistanis what could be better than pure genetics. How can an Iranic Afghan of Hephathalite Bactarian descent be a local in Indic subcontinent? Please explain to me when they are massively different genes.

main-qimg-378a71cf931c51a97f11800cbaa44af0


Clearly you are low IQ retard.

AHJKSHAKJSIUHOIJIO

It is just that Iran intervenes in our country through various terrorist organizations ( Al zinabiyon brigade) and etc.

Has your country/military designated the Zenabiyoun brigade as a terrorist organization? NO

Have we kidnapped these boys from their homes to fight for us? NO

Did they leave their homes to fight for us by their own will and faith? YES

Did Pakistani authorities stop those people from joining 10 different nationalities in Syria? NO

Have Pakistanis fought in other people's wars before? YES

Were they paid for the job they did? YES (much better than what Saudis, Emiratis pay your kind for menial jobs, atleast job of a soldier is far more respected)

Were they respected as warriors who fought American-Israeli-sponsored ISIS? YES

I do not seem to find where it is a wrong thing or an Iranian fault? People are free to do what they want to do in modern times.

Pakistani Shias participate in Iranian wars and chant praises of Iran and for your terrorist Mullahs. Some even had vigils for that BBQed Solemani

Of course, they do, Iran-Iraq are theocratic countries. Every Shia in this world would look towards its theocratic centers, just like how Sunni extremists would do anything for US-sponsored Saudis even if Saoodis, Emiratis open the Israeli Zion embassy in Mecca (they are already doing that but in Riyadh, Dubai). Theocratic countries always have that advantage. Iraq might take this role in the future from Iran. They are far more radical Shias than us anyways.

Ofcourse there would be retaliation to all such antagonistic behaviors.

"Retaliate" against your countrymen for all I care. I respect pakistani shias as much as I respect any other shia in the world. Lovely people.

Keep that race and ethnic issue out of it since that is not what is talked about but I don't think you would refrain from that since LOW IQ rafidies , muttah practicising illegitimate bastards are hyper fixated on it.

Race and ethnicity has everything to do with sects. I would not hate another group of my own country over something that I was not even part of. Shias and Sunnis have never ever clashed in wars in the entire history of Islam except for Fatmid-Abbasids or Ottoman vs Saffavids. Why would a south Asian get emotional for something that he was never part of? You are hating your own countrymen over sects which are not created by your people, but were given to you by conquering groups from MENA? Had those groups be tengrists or zionists, you would have been writing tengri or zion poems right now. This is how stupid low IQ sectarian people like you are. keep going for all I care because you are blabbering against your own people not mine. Spare me the "shia sunni pride in south asia".
 

khansaheeb

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IIRC, no one could drive a wedge before 1979. Why did it start to happen after 1979? If any thing changed, it did so at Iran's end & not Pakistan's. It is reasonable to assume that the reorientation of Iranian policies is the driver of the dynamic, not any change from Pakistan's side. If a relation can be soured by driving a wedge, then it clearly means that the relation was not strong anyway.

I gave a specific example of Iran choosing to side with India over Kashmir issue - from 1993/4 onwards. Henceafter, Iran paid lip service to Kashmir issue, but practically supported India. This shows that Iranian policy is based on pragmatism, not idealism. They preferred ties with India over ties with Pakistan. Indians then ditched Iran ten years or so ago as their interests aligned with USA.

So you see it is pointless to expect Pakistan to strive in making the mutual ties strong again. Iran needs to re-evaluate its regional policies & priorities. Only then can Pakistan be expected to reciprocate. I do not need to recount recent history to emphasize this.
Have you forgotten Pakistan's regional stance and position in the US alliance? Pakistan was in a dream relationship with Uncle Sam and doing all their bidding until Pakistan was unceremoniously divorced by sanctions and acts. At that time the corrupts in Pakistan thought that they were too aloof of their neighbours and never thought about tomorrow and let Pakistan become a pawn in regional power play dancing to the tunes of thrown dollars. Corrupts were happy to let their Pakistani people rot in poverty and suffer in silence whilst they stuffed their Swiss accounts with ill-gotten money.
 

OldTwilight

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Till the next terrorist attack in Baluchistan and ISI chief running to Tehran. Back to sq one. Seen this sh|t over and over again.

All these camera ops are useless till Iran cleanse its soil of all the terrorist safe heavens and the Indian ingress it has allowed within. And there is a small matter of Mossad and Cia assests within its intel setup who will be more the willing to poke Pakistan at the right times. In nutshell, Iran needs to self cleanse itself pretty damn fast.

Best thing though:

View attachment 819871

well , too many idiots in this site with their baseless unproven false claims against Iran ...
 

Maula Jatt

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Clearly you are low IQ retard. Wonder what made you bring ethnicity and race into it.

No sunni in Pakistan has any interest in Iranian affairs.. It is just that Iran intervenes in our country through various terrorist organizations ( Al zinabiyon brigade) and etc.
Pakistani Shias participate in Iranian wars and chant praises of Iran and for your terrorist Mullahs. Some even had vigils for that BBQed Solemani... Ofcourse there would be retaliation to all such antagonistic behaviors.

Keep that race and ethnic issue out of it since that is not what is talked about but I don't think you would refrain from that since LOW IQ rafidies , muttah practicising illegitimate bastards are hyper fixated on it.
@drmeson has the IQ of a baboon probably baboons make more sense
ignore him its the same repetitive shit that makes no sense I have seen him in every thread literally every thread , I swear its difficult to find a thread without
the same storm front DNA crap rinse and repeat over and over again doesn't matter what the topic on hand is or the headline
its literally the same spamming crap every frickin time
I genuinely don't know the point of it all
 
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pakpride00090

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Its in your own interest "Persian idiot" not to dwell too much on this, otherwise this will get derailed.

I can understand why Rafidis from Iran jump on this thread to defend Iran but the problem is the fifth columnist Pakistani scums who act more Iranian than Pakistanis...

Har jagah ajate hain Iran ke tatte chatne...

kya hogya bhai
sub set hai lol?

Sab kuch set hai....

Mera peecha chor agar tou mutah ki pedawar nahi hai ...lol
 

khansaheeb

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People will still blame Pakistan and will argue that Pakistan chose to leave Iran under US/West pressure but look US/West also pressured us to leave China and China was not a superpower at that time but we managed to keep our relations good with China despite being cold war ally of US.

@khansaheeb plz try to understand that it was Iran itself who reoriented its policies and chose India over Pakistan while thinking that India being Soviet ally will help them against USA and they did literally did everything to please India but India never did anything that could have helped Iran against US
Pakistani corrupts were afraid of the Mullah revolution in Iran and a Mullah type takeover of Pakistan. Pakistan's stance during the Iraq-Iran war didn't help either where most Pakistanis were siding with Iraq. Our short sighted direction lead us into one tragedy to another and back to square one with only the ones with looted wealth abroad happy with the outcome. We barely survived ending up as a failed state only because China came to the rescue. If the corrupts in Pakistan had their way we would have become Bangladesh under Indian control with sovereignty only in name.
 
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