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Iranian Air Defense Systems

skyshadow

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Its all about the gain of the illumination lobe. With this idea I'm widely speculating, well beyond the other things I said (I'm a mechanics guy not electronics).
The logic is this: Iranians sit down, look at the S-300/-400 and figure out that trying to achieve the same brute force illumination power levels requires a similarly large (=expensive) system and while Russians have 50 years of experience and are masters at this PESA technology, Iran has none. A race that can hardly be won.
Conclusion would be to try to develop a higher gain radar that achieves the same but at much lower power levels.
How this was managed is the big unknown, apparently not by some silly approach like expensive high power GaNs.
The auxiliary antennas could be just maintenance hatches, or SLC antennas that just improves ECCM capability and makes locating more difficult. But they could be responsible how higher gain levels were achieved.

Other details: The radar aperture of both, engagement and acquisition radar are use to create two separate, redundant missile up link channels to receive missile seeker data. So not only two different data-links are available, they also operate at a different frequency as the radar functions. A complete nightmare if you want to jam the system, or just apply self defense jamming to survive. The PESA of the S-400 does not offer this capability.
Its these details that makes these systems: S-300PM, S-400, HQ-9, Bavar-373 so feared; their kill-chain is so redundant and powerful that only kinematic evasion becomes a option for survival. All single sensor systems, from Arrow-2/3 to Aster lack this legality. An ARH seeker equipped SAM can be defended against via a self defense towed barrage jammer, namely the closer the seeker get to the target, the higher jamming intensity becomes... SAGG guidance completely negates this effect and dual-band SAGG... multiplies it... That's why all the fuzz about S-400, it's close to mythical. Once you enter its no-escape zone, next to nothing will keep you alive.
That's also why exo-atmospheric ABM systems or even Arrow-2 are more advanced(expensive) missile wise but overall system-wise the systems S-300PM, S-400, HQ-9, Bavar-373 and to some extend Aegis (less cost-efficient, high-tech solutions) but are the real masterpieces.
System cost is of greatest importance: Aegis with SM-6 is a expensive solution but it seems Bavar-373 costs less than half that of a export S-300PMU-2 battery and 1/4 that of export S-400. Internal Russian prices should be closer to each other, while the Bavar-373 applies usually more expensive AESA technology for its radars.

Irans requirement to establish full border coverage are at least 20 Bavar-373 batteries.

PS: I still remember 10 years ago when S-300 were not delivered... I was hoping for a LRSAM system that would be made of a AIM-54 Phoenix copy with a large booster attached to it. A TPS-43, JY-14 or Nebo-SVU (foreign radars), would detect the target, and the Phoenix SAM shot towards it, receiving updates via a ground data-link antenna.
With the technology Iran had at hand back then, this appeared as the most promising solution to create a LRSAM...
Bavar-373 of 2019 is magnitudes more potent and cost effective than that desperate solution would have been and compared to Chinese and North Korean copies of the S-300PM and P series, it is a indigenous system with Iranian signature.



some very good intell PLS do listen

https://www.telewebion.com/episode/2094681

so we have high power laser air defense system ( which was state secret until now) for shooting down Fighter jets congratulations to all Iranian brothers. :-) :agree:
 

aryobarzan

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ofcourse i just wanted to show it's going to be a series air defense system like S300 , S400 , S500 family
just a side note:...I have not seen a reporting of Bavar 373 in the russian main international media "Sputnik" (they usually report any thing Iran puts out)
I may have missed it but if true then it tells us a lot about how Russians are either pissed that Iran developed this or simply they just do not like competition.. makes me simile The student has outsmarted the master...lol:cheesy:
 

PeeD

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The honesty is when he says that Bavar-373 is suited for tracking mach 9-10 targets while the S-400 manages mach 14. His knowledge about the THAAD was a little off, maybe because it is not a air-defense but ABM-only system.
He confirmed that its is not an obscure kind of PESA but a AESA as I have said since years.

Regarding honesty: In my last posts I made the case for SAGG guidance and how much deadlier and cost-efficient it is compared to ARH seeker SAMs.
So much is true
However there are operating regimes where ARH can't be avoided and SAGG can't be applied, these are:
- Targeting cruise missiles over the horizon. Here only ARH with a networked warning sensor can enable to kill them at stand-off ranges of beyond 40km. There is a method to achieve it via SAGG on which Iran seems to be working, but I won't detail that.
- Targeting extreme long range targets. Again horizon limitations would disable the use of SAGG guided systems beyond ~300km effectively against medium altitude targets. That's why Bavar-373 and S-300PM go to 200km and S-400 to 250km, not beyond. Here a 40N6 or SM-6 like SAM is needed, making use of top aspect approach against stealthy targets. Soviet doctrine avoided this because ARH seeker of that time were deemed too expensive and fragile to ECM and they still are today in many ways.
- ARH seeker SAMs allow multiple target engagement in a saturation scenario. That scenario is questionable itself because engaging weapons cheap enough to used in a saturation scenario are not what you want to intercept with your expensive ARH-seeker SAM. The S-350 is a post-Soviet concept for such a ARH-seeker system. Preferably Iran will protect its high value objects with several Iranian Pantsirs or 3rd Khordad class systems.

Outside of capitalist western military industry, Iran must be wise enough not to follow technologies which make no economic sense such as PAC-3 vs. Houthi Burkan-2.
For example: Build a heavy SAM with a 200kg warhead by building a larger booster. DO NOT, build a supermaneuverable hit-to-kill PAC-3 with a complex thruster system and ARH-seeker. Enlarging the booster and filling it with propellant is a more cost effective approach and the large directed warhead assures kill without "hit-to-kill".
 

Sina-1

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Iran must be wise enough not to follow technologies which make no economic sense such as PAC-3 vs. Houthi Burkan-2.
Actually it does :D
It makes economic sense for the American companies marketing it. The objective is not to stop any missiles, but to deplete the Arabs on their oil money.
 

T-72B

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just a side note:...I have not seen a reporting of Bavar 373 in the russian main international media "Sputnik" (they usually report any thing Iran puts out)
I may have missed it but if true then it tells us a lot about how Russians are either pissed that Iran developed this or simply they just do not like competition.. makes me simile The student has outsmarted the master...lol:cheesy:
Sputnik has cover the news of B-373 tho
https://sputniknews.com/military/20...built-s-300-analogue-defence-system--reports/
 

AmirPatriot

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@PeeD I know this is a difficult question to answer, but approximately what range would you think something like Bavar's S-band radar to detect something like an F-35 at? It would be incredible if it had enough range for the full kinematic performance of the Sayyad-4 to be utilised.

And once it detects it, to be clear, does it illuminate the target (for a dual-band SAGG seeker) or just get the raw radar return itself and use command guidance to send the target to within range of the X-band return (if it doesn't have a dual-band SAGG seeker)?
 

PeeD

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@PeeD I know this is a difficult question to answer, but approximately what range would you think something like Bavar's S-band radar to detect something like an F-35 at? It would be incredible if it had enough range for the full kinematic performance of the Sayyad-4 to be utilised.

And once it detects it, to be clear, does it illuminate the target (for a dual-band SAGG seeker) or just get the raw radar return itself and use command guidance to send the target to within range of the X-band return (if it doesn't have a dual-band SAGG seeker)?

Actually I have already calculated estimations; between 150 and 200km.

S-band track data is "fused" with X-band track data, Meraj-4 interrupted track data, possibly Iran-Nebo track data. Plus Sayyad-4 X-band seeker data in the terminal phase plus IR sensor data from engagement radar and likely also Sayyad-4. All this, plus more, is then used to make sure the warhead is detonated at the right time, distance and angle.
 

yavar

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ایران معاون وزیر دفاع و رئیس شرکت صنایع الکترونیک (صاایران) ( رئیس سازمان صنایع الکترونیک وزارت دفاع ) امیر سرتیپ شاهرخ شهرام: ساخت سامانه ای بهتر از باور-۳۷۳ (نزدیک به سطح اس-۴۰۰ ) در دستر کار است که در آینده درباره آن خبر رسانی می کنیم.

**ساخت سامانه‌هایی بهتر از باور۳۷۳ در دستور کار
رئیس سازمان صنایع الکترونیک وزارت دفاع گفت: فرازهایی برتر از سامانه باور 373 را در دستور کار داریم که در آینده درباره آن خبررسانی می کنیم.
https://www.farsnews.com/news/13980601000081/باور-۳۷۳-برتر-از-سامانه-پاتریوت-آمریکاست-به-سلاح-لیزری-دست-پیدا

Iran Defense Ministery representative of Iran Electronics Industries Co. (SAIran) also chief of the Iran Electronics Industries Co. Army Brigadier Gen. Shahrokh Shahram: Building better then the Bavar-373 air defense systems, (close to S-400 level) is on going which we will be announce in the future.
 
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DoubleYouSee

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وزیر دفاع همچنین در پاسخ به سوالی پیرامون بی‌نیازی کشور از خرید خارجی با وجود سامانه‌های داخلی، گفت: نیازی به خرید سامانه های خارجی نخواهیم داشت و حتما نسخه های بعدی سامانه باور ۳۷۳ متناسب با تغییرات، قابلیت های جدیدی خواهد داشت و نسل های بعدی آن امنیت نسل های بعدی را تامین کند.
We will have new versions of B-373
What do you guys think?
I think it would
What do you guys think?
I think americans send this frog to fight Iran.......in 10 minutes he destroyed all iranian military capability...........no one better than him could do that
 

NADIM.NAZI

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Few years ago Yeaver give a list of 3 or 4 types of baver air defence system in iranmilitaryforum.net
I request Yeaver again give that list hear.
 

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