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Khan vilatey

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This does not translate to having more accurate missiles. You're performing too much of a jump in your conclusions. As if the Europeans would just export the knowledge for such proliferation of accurate missiles. Moreover, which European nations have pin point ballistic missile technology?




Proof for this?



That is not how this works. In order for you to claim to have more accurate missile, you need to provide actual technical proof for this and not some conjectures. Where is this proof that those long range missiles you listed are anywhere near the accuracy of Iranian missiles? Furthermore, given that Pakistani missiles will depend on delivering nuclear systems, it is not in need of such accurate systems.

The only nations that are above Iran in missile technology are the Americans, Russians and Chinese. No other nations have shown the same level of prowess in that field as Iran. Matter of fact, Iran is the only nation in modern history to have shown its accuracy in actual attacks, the most recent being the attack on US base:

View attachment 671873

Show me which other nation has demonstrated this level of accuracy.

With respect, We have been testing cruise missiles for the last 30 years , herbs, rad, Babar and so on, we also have been testing longer range missiles with good accuracy! You could check this on this forum. People have called out the accuracy.

we do have access to better machining , an example is Pakistan’s centrifuge machines version x are way better than the generation 1 given to Iran. Our fabrication capability is far superior as well since we use Chinese or European machines.

now for training look up some of the Pakistani scientists interview on YouTube and you will see we trained every body from a welder to senior scientist in France and other European countries. Hell the chief designer for Shaheen did his PHD in France........

Do a little more research on forum you will find what you are looking for.

k
 

Khan vilatey

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We're talking about ballistic missiles, not cruise missiles. Iran has also demonstrated its cruise missile capabilities multiple times, but that is not the discussion. Cruise missile accuracy is far easier to attain than ballistic missile systems.

I am still waiting for you to show me a single long range ballistic missile test showing the level of accuracy Iran has shown.




What do centrifuges have to do with missile production? First of all, those Gen 1 European origin centrifuges you gave Iran are from decades ago, today Iran has developed far superior ones. IR-9 for example has an SWU of around 50.



All I am hearing from you so far are conjectures without any proof. Are you seriously trying to compare your scientific technological base to Iran? No offence but in the technological and scientific field, Pakistan is nowhere near Iran.



Iran has developed and tested its accurate ballistic missile in real life and proven it. You claim Pakistan is far superior to Iran and your only evidence is having a few people studying in Europe? This is such a silly form of reasoning. Pakistan has not demonstrated to have the technological base nor any proof of such accuracy.




If you have the actual relevant proof that is worthy of consideration, then provide it.
Friend, most of us release parts of the information. Giving specifics would be treason.

the point I was trying to make is that Iran has been under sanctions since 1979. Pakistan has not. Our ability to develop high end engineering products like tanks, fighter jets, strategic system and so forth is well know. We now have an industrial eco system of smaller companies creating parts of products to support our defence industry. This is because we have access to advance training and procurement of accurate machinery’s. You would need to be an industrial engineer with experience for advance engineering products to understand what I am talking about to draw parallels between our ability build our own nuclear reactors and creating accurate strategic instruments.

In conclusion, with a high end engineering base with a view on latest and greatest our ability to research and fabricate accurate wepons exists. This does not take anything away from Iran’s success, It is an amazing feet that Iran has been able to achieve all these technologies with such hard sanctions

k
 

Philosopher

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Friend, most of us release parts of the information. Giving specifics would be treason.
We are all going by OSINT sources in this forum, releasing OSINT is not treasonous in any form. Either the evidence exists in open sources or does not.


the point I was trying to make is that Iran has been under sanctions since 1979.
This has already been discussed, sanctions do not mean much when you're relying on your own indigenous capabilities.

Pakistan has not. Our ability to develop high end engineering products like tanks, fighter jets, strategic system and so forth is well know. We now have an industrial eco system of smaller companies creating parts of products to support our defence industry. This is because we have access to advance training and procurement of accurate machinery’s. You would need to be an industrial engineer with experience for advance engineering products to understand what I am talking about to draw parallels between our ability build our own nuclear reactors and creating accurate strategic instruments.
Iran is producing top tier air defence, UAVs etc, this is because it is relying on its own means. Like I said above, the problem with your erroneous conclusions is because of your incorrect assumptions and comparisons. You should not compare Iran to nations whosw development bottleneck are imports.



In conclusion, with a high end entering base with a view on latest and greatest our ability to research and fabricate accurate wepons exists. It is an amazing feet that Iran has been able to achieve all these technologies with such hard sanctions
Iranians have a history and culture of scientific and technological promotion/development. That is why Iran is doing well scientifically and technologically despite sanctions. There is no country in our region that is comparable to Iran in terms of the level of achievements made relying on its own prowess. There is a reason Iran is launching satellites into space where other regional states cannot, there is a reason Iran can build its own submarines, long range air defence, stealthy UCAV where other regional states rely on importing them. Iran's base scientific and technological base is much stronger than other regional states. Even the Israelis with their heavy reliance on the Americans have admitted that Iranian military industry is much larger than theirs.

I am happy for our Pakistani friends and what they have done, however you simply cannot compare youselves to Iranian industry in science, technology and defence. Iran is far more self reliant and has produced systems that many advanced nations in the world have not. How many nations can produce something like Bavar-373? Or Anti-ship ballistic missiles? Iran got to where it is out of necessity. And this is just the beginning.
 
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QWECXZ

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Boomer Soleimani should've given a word to militias in Iraq when they were opening fire on the protesters, he could have saved many young life's.

He didn't, therefore the nigga gets no respect.
He also should've left you niggas dealing with ISIS alone because that's what you get when your country is fucked up and your people are stupid enough to join an extremely radical religious group.
 

camelguy

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He also should've left you niggas dealing with ISIS alone because that's what you get when your country is fucked up and your people are stupid enough to join an extremely radical religious group.
I understand why the neo baathists mixed with Islamism won wide popular support. Abu Musab Al zarqawi catered to the existing anger against America and the Iranian interference which built up all throughout the 90s.

US should have blown entire Qom to hell instead of only the Qods guy
 

IbnAbdullah

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Salaam


He and his friends will soil their pants as soon as he stops being the POTUS. I doubt that many Americans would want to go to war with a country that they consider dangerous over some stupid move made by some oddball like Trump back when he was the president (Let's not forget that he is disliked by at least half of the Americans at home).

I seriously doubt that the Iranian leadership would be reckless enough to attack Potus or exPotus. Liked or not, the US will definitely respond to any such move.

My guess is, for starters, the top leadership of Iran would be an immediate target. The Americans would likely find it far easier than the Iranians would to target and take out the leadership of the other.

I don't think the Iranian leadership would want to play that game.

I don't think they are incapable of hurting the US in some way but targeting Trump or any top leader (whether current or retired) would likely be a move too far.
 

QWECXZ

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I understand why the neo baathists mixed with Islamism won wide popular support. Abu Musab Al zarqawi catered to the existing anger against America and the Iranian interference which built up all throughout the 90s.

US should have blown entire Qom to hell instead of only the Qods guy
It's a no brainer why the ISIS could win wide popular support in Iraq. Radicalism is quite common in war torn countries.

I'm all for blowing up Qom actually. Religious leaders with inflexible thoughts that can't live up to the dreams and demands of a younger generation are better dead. However, you forgot that Iran is not Iraq that people actually beg foreigners to invade it and celebrate its invasion by US troops and then live the next two decades blowing each other up and blaming others and asking why.

Salaam

I seriously doubt that the Iranian leadership would be reckless enough to attack Potus or exPotus. Liked or not, the US will definitely respond to any such move.

My guess is, for starters, the top leadership of Iran would be an immediate target. The Americans would likely find it far easier than the Iranians would to target and take out the leadership of the other.

I don't think the Iranian leadership would want to play that game.

I don't think they are incapable of hurting the US in some way but targeting Trump or any top leader (whether current or retired) would likely be a move too far.
Salaam

I totally agree with you that attacking the POTUS is out of the question. However, I disagree with you when it comes to Trump after he leaves the office. Trump is not a real political figure. He's rather a businessman and an entertainer that made his way to the top against all odds by populism by breaking a lot of political traditions and norms in the US politics. He has made too many enemies by directly insulting them, even insulting their intelligence in front of millions of American viewers.

I think it is possible to trade Trump's safety and security with the Americans during potential negotiations in future. I'm not saying that it will happen, but it seems like a reasonable options. I am sure that within the US, there are many people who really dislike the guy and hate his guts.
 

azbaroj

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We are all going by OSINT sources in this forum, releasing OSINT is not treasonous in any form. Either the evidence exists in open sources or does not.




This has already been discussed, sanctions do not mean much when you're relying on your own indigenous capabilities.



Iran is producing top tier air defence, UAVs etc, this is because it is relying on its own means. Like I said above, the problem with your erroneous conclusions is because of your incorrect assumptions and comparisons. You should not compare Iran to nations whosw development bottleneck are imports.





Iranians have a history and culture of scientific and technological promotion/development. That is why Iran is doing well scientifically and technologically despite sanctions. There is no country in our region that is comparable to Iran in terms of the level of achievements made relying on its own prowess. There is a reason Iran is launching satellites into space where other regional states cannot, there is a reason Iran can build its own submarines, long range air defence, stealthy UCAV where other regional states rely on importing them. Iran's base scientific and technological base is much stronger than other regional states. Even the Israelis with their heavy reliance on the Americans have admitted that Iranian military industry is much larger than theirs.

I am happy for our Pakistani friends and what they have done, however you simply cannot compare youselves to Iranian industry in science, technology and defence. Iran is far more self reliant and has produced systems that many advanced nations in the world have not. How many nations can produce something like Bavar-373? Or Anti-ship ballistic missiles? Iran got to where it is out of necessity. And this is just the beginning.
‍ I want to point out some facts about this comparison . In nuclear weapons capabilities Pakistan was and is much more advanced and experienced than Iran . Pakistan was also advanced in missile technology too .
But when Iranians realised that it is difficult to collect arms because of arms embargo , they try to self dependence on arms industry . They began to invest heavily in arms industry. They build a lot of technological universities, state sponsored scientists were sent to various countries to acquire scientific and technological knowledge.
They heavily invested in research, development and innovation.
Most of the scientists take it as their religious duty . Imam Khameni meet the scientists and asked them to acquire ' pin point accuracy ' in ballastic missiles.
Pakistani scientists were also much more capable but their investment in research and development was not like as Iran .
Iranian research investment in missile technology was so big , so diversified that it is unthinkable. Here in this forum, in every week we used to hear some new achievements by Iranian scientists.
Such kind of investment was not possible by Pakistan because of economical limitations.
Their determination, devotion and patience take them ahead of its regional powers .
 

camelguy

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It's a no brainer why the ISIS could win wide popular support in Iraq. Radicalism is quite common in war torn countries.

I'm all for blowing up Qom actually. Religious leaders with inflexible thoughts that can't live up to the dreams and demands of a younger generation are better dead. However, you forgot that Iran is not Iraq that people actually beg foreigners to invade it and celebrate its invasion by US troops and then live the next two decades blowing each other up and blaming others and asking why.


Salaam

I totally agree with you that attacking the POTUS is out of the question. However, I disagree with you when it comes to Trump after he leaves the office. Trump is not a real political figure. He's rather a businessman and an entertainer that made his way to the top against all odds by populism by breaking a lot of political traditions and norms in the US politics. He has made too many enemies by directly insulting them, even insulting their intelligence in front of millions of American viewers.

I think it is possible to trade Trump's safety and security with the Americans during potential negotiations in future. I'm not saying that it will happen, but it seems like a reasonable options. I am sure that within the US, there are many people who really dislike the guy and hate his guts.
Yeah you should thank America hehe. Would you remove Saddam yourself? Or would that take fifty more years.
 

QWECXZ

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Yeah you should thank America hehe. Would you remove Saddam yourself? Or would that take fifty more years.
Why should we thank Americans? We should thank Iraqis that were stupid enough to hand over their country to the US and then us.
 

QWECXZ

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I agree there are too many Shiites in Iraq who still live in a past century. Unfortunately these Shiites of us love Iran, fukin monkeys
And how many Iraqis loved and still love Americans after the 2003 invasion of Iraq and the 1991 attack on your country? Not to mention that the Americans pushed your country towards a war that you couldn't win and cost you trillions of dollars of economic, human capital and infrastructural damage as well as unimaginable foreign debt.
 

QWECXZ

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Our Iranic part loves America, Kurds that is.
Anyway **** soleimani, I'm out
Are you saying that only Kurds danced when Saddam was toppled? Because I can vividly remember seeing Iraqi people in Baghdad celebrating the invasion of Iraq, dancing on the streets and distributing sweets and thanking Allah. One doesn't even have to be older than 25 to remember such scenes. A simple search on YouTube will show a lot of videos from back then.
 

camelguy

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Are you saying that only Kurds danced when Saddam was toppled? Because I can vividly remember seeing Iraqi people in Baghdad celebrating the invasion of Iraq, dancing on the streets and distributing sweets and thanking Allah. One doesn't even have to be older than 25 to remember such scenes. A simple search on YouTube will show a lot of videos from back then.
They celebrated the end of a decade/era of UN sanctions, sanctions which if imposed on Iran would have you without Internet today. Far heavier than the sanctions Iran experienced.

I feel that throughout the years here all the arguments end up to be of no use. It's not like you needed me to explain you this, some thinking could've enabled you to understand beyond what you just wrote. Those that celebrated Saddam's fall would throw a massive party seeing Iran's coons being thrown out of Baghdad.

Point is, Iran is exporting cancer. Soleimani was of no use, boomer poster boy bringing human-wave tactics. His attempts in Tikrit (fully led PMU operation) failed heavily, massive PMU casualties due to his failed tactics. The PMU's input came with a high cost, a major payment in human life. The same thing Iran did in the 80's, nothing genius about it.

I hope America and Iran clash directly.
 

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