• Tuesday, January 28, 2020

Iran riots: Armed Protesters try to kill Khamenei's Rep in Yazd

Discussion in 'Iranian Defence Forum' started by Kastor, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. Uguduwa

    Uguduwa BANNED

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    You say this while living in Canada? I have Iranian friends whose relatives can't afford medicine while you people are fantasizing about becoming a superpower while your government is wasting tax money on useless wars. I will have some respect for you if you wrote this post while living in Iran but writing crap while enjoying comfort in the west deserves no respect.

    Don't get me wrong, I support Iran as a counterbalance against Arab countries but you need to build your economy and take care of welfare of your citizens before you go onto foreign adventures.

    I don't think so. US sees Iran as a counterbalance to GCC. An Iran allied with the US will have US blessing on the same adventures in Yemen, Syria and what not as long as it doesn't threaten Israeli interests.
     
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  2. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal SENIOR MEMBER

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    Who are you to say Iran’s government needs replacement? No government is perfect. But no government in the world is facing the level of draconian sanctions that Iran is.

    Furthermore, in the last 50 years show me a government that has been toppled/replaced and is ACTUALLY successful.

    Iraq? Afghanistan? Egypt? Libya? Ukraine? Yemen? Sudan? Syria? Lebanon?

    I swear middle Easterns are like moths to flame they get burned by the flame and 10 seconds later fly right back towards it.

    If the Islamic Republic collapses there goes Iran for the next 100 years. Just look at Syrians they are at the point of “goh Khordam”. They destroyed their country for what?

    Iranians in general are an ungrateful bunch that complains too much to begin with. They have the lowest gas rates in the entire Middle East and still complain. Lack of medicine and essential goods is not the fault of the government when other countries refuse to supply Iran with the goods for fear of violating sanctions. US did this to Saddam and caused the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis.

    The government has done all it can to stem the affect of sanctions on the public, but at the end of the day this is the fault of EU/US so maybe those *** kissing western loving Iranians should protest against those countries.

    So don’t go around saying a government needs to be replaced, you simply cannot replace the foundations of government in the 21st century anymore. All it leads to is chaos and dysfunction and more corruption.
     
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  3. Uguduwa

    Uguduwa BANNED

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    Tunisia, Latvija, Estonia, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Japan, Germany
     
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  4. BlueInGreen2

    BlueInGreen2 FULL MEMBER

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    I personally don't see how the U.S views Iran as a counterbalace to the GCC. I do respect your stance though, it is a logical one to have.
    So did you just willfully ignore the part where I said reform or replacement.

    Yes I fully acknowledge that going about changing governments is a risky if not an outright idiotic endeavor but Iran has issues with its government that need to be addressed no matter what you say.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  5. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal SENIOR MEMBER

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    I said 50 years stupid, Japan and Germany was damn WW2. And Czech Republic is seriously your example of a successful country? along with a handful of shitty irrelevant eastern Europe a countries?

    Exactly my point, if you think Iran with top of 5 in oil reserves and top 2 in natural gas reserves will not be cut up like a turkey than you are naive.

    Once idiots like you see the damage that is caused of what a failed nation state looks like then you disappear just like all those that wanted “freedom” for Libya are no where to be found. Libya is now a battlefield for every Arab country to fight in for influence. Most people wish Gaddafi was still in power.

    So please keep this fantasy that Iran will become this beacon of freedom and prosperity in your head. It’s a fools dream.
     
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  6. Uguduwa

    Uguduwa BANNED

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    Ok, Japan and Germany are not valid. Irrelevant to whom? Definitely not here in Europe. Also outside the Middle East, Iran is an irrelevant country too. Nobody wants to carve up Iran. I say, US would be happy to let Iran dominate the region given that it doesn't seek destruction of Israel.

    So you're going to put Iranian society in the same league as Arabs? I am disappointed.
     
  7. BlueInGreen2

    BlueInGreen2 FULL MEMBER

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    You know I shouldn't be even saying this since it would highly hypocritical of me to point something out I often do to others but you are unnecessarily mean when responding.

    You do realize that most of your posts come from this pretentious high-ground of authority that of which I don't where you're justifying it from. It's as if you have all the answers and the opinion of others on the matter are mute or invalid in comparison to your own. Please try and accept or consider other peoples views and feelings when it comes to Iran. You're aren't the only Iranian or Iranian American that cares for what happens to Iran lol.
     
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  8. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal SENIOR MEMBER

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    You are simply a fool sitting here pointing out something with no real plan of action. You clearly said replacement. Reform and replacement are two different worlds together.

    “Dur Dur Iran needs to be better Dur Dur”

    I mean what difference does what you say differ from what MEK and Shah supporters say? Except when you ask them HOW they will implement such reforms they suddenly become silent.

    What reforms are you going to implement in next 1-2 years that will change the economic situation? Iran has lost up to 30% of its revenues in oil revenue along with multiple other revenue streams.

    So either Iran waives the white flag or its people accept what the current situation. There is no magical solution, if you have one please do explain to us all.

    Pakistan famously declared “The late Mr. Bhutto, who fathered Pakistan's nuclear program then told his people: “If India builds the bomb, we will eat grass or leaves, even go hungry, but we will get one of our own. We have no alternative.”

    US has left JCPOA for not even 2 years and Iranians are already blaming the government for sanctions.

    Iran is irrelevant on the world stage? This comment right here just explains your ignorance.

    Nobody wants to carve Iran? Again another ignorant comment I am not going to respond to this.

    You should learn about Iran first. Kurds, Balouchis, Arabs in the South all want independence. And you think US/EU/Israel are just gonna sit back and not take advantage of such a situation? Has history taught you NOTHING?

    It’s this EXACT level of ignorance that is so dangerous and has cost COUNTLESS countries there future.
     
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  9. BlueInGreen2

    BlueInGreen2 FULL MEMBER

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    Man, you're too far gone to even reason with. What's with the pseudo authority?

    A government can reform or change certain policies hence why I said REFORM OR REPLACEMENT. Nothing you respond with is going to change the actual meaning of the words I said. Stop twisting my statement to fit your agenda man, it's shameful and lacks tact.

    Fine I will bite, reducing or lessening some of the outdated religious edicts for one can help ease the stress put on the Iranian populace. I mean, you know, not having to look over your shoulder every two minutes for some cop that is going to chastise you because your hair is showing 2 inches more than governmentally mandated will go a long way in reducing tension within Iran.

    Kastor alluded in an earlier post, suggesting Iran to adopt a more transparent style of government. One that is more open and direct with the nation, a nation that is very angry. Obviously the issues that sparked the 2009 protests are still resonating today. So there are issues apart from economic ones that can be addressed and hopefully resolved through peaceful means.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
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  10. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal SENIOR MEMBER

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    Because I am tired of people supporting regime change when they don’t understand the consequences.

    Iran has to change on its own and through peaceful means. I would venture to say that Iran has transformed the MOST in last 30 years in terms of governance and freedoms. I mean do people not remember what after IR revolution was like? If you were caught wearing a t shirt you had your arms painted. MEK was running around blowing up people.

    Is that really the Iran you people want? Because I will tell you that’s what you will get. There are 10+ countries ready to send Iran back to the Stone Age once they start to buckle.

    Its like hoping a wounded animal doesn’t get eaten by predators and they leave him to heal and get better.

    Do not take my way of talking personally. It’s just I do get agitated about this topic.
     
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  11. Shapur Zol Aktaf

    Shapur Zol Aktaf BANNED

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    Plastic/rubber bullets, teargas, water cannons should be used. We don't know if these numbers are true or propaganda.
    However there are signs of clear hooliganism and vandalism.
    In france yellow vest protest in 1 year caused 4000 injuries, 20 deaths. In Iran if these thugs are allowed to continue they will cause 40000 injuries and 2000-20000 deaths.

    Lets not forget, Islamic republic is clearly partly guilty of these problems today:
    • 40 years they did nothing about this and now suddenly they want to cut subsidies because of budget problems. They had so many years to slowly cut the subsidies. 1 dollar cent a month in 6 years would be enough
    • Their whole revolution was semi-communist and communist policy of giving subsidies on bread, fuel, electricity, gas has caused these problems. Now after causing "subsidie-addiction" for the people, they have to fix all these mistakes and cancel the subsidies.
    • They could start media campaigns from years before starting this policy
    • They could start giving hand-outs in advance before cutting the subsidies to ease the pain of lower income groups.
    • They could have saved 100 billion energy subsidies a year, 50 billions subsidies from other inefficient system such as bonyads, and easily collect additional 50 billion taxes. Together 200 billion dollars a year would become free to invest in infrastructure, tourism and education, science, military, agriculture etc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
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  12. BlueInGreen2

    BlueInGreen2 FULL MEMBER

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    Our sentiments are similar in that we both feel for Iran and want the best, my statements were in no way advocating for anarchy or violent revolution (although saying replacement of the government does indeed mean that lol). I want "change" but what you say is fair.

    It comes from a good place if that makes any sense.
     
  13. Kastor

    Kastor FULL MEMBER

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    I can't speak for blueingreen but I do not wish to see a violent revolution, I don't think he does either. But it doesn't change the calculus on the ground does it? You have a wide spread protest, after the last big one in 2009..so if you're a leader you should see the handwriting on the wall. The populace is on the brink and ready to throw out everyone and everything, guilty or not. You have to see that whether the damn Jews or Americans are the cause or not. Their inaction or in Ahmadinejad's case his actions has created an opportunity for our enemies to exploit this. They have to take the blame for bringing us here. I have said it before, many many times, what’s the plan? What is the end game? The hardliners strategy of turning their back on negotiations and sabotaging anything the reformers did is now laid bare for what it is, shortsighted amateurish strategies. If our leaders had seen the change, the danger they may have just started taking ala the N. Korean model, as I had mentioned many times before. So yes, reforms are needed and necessary weather we blame the hardliners or the reformers or both. We need to loosen the grips of all of these council's on our government, we need to let the elected president run the country, we need to tell the military to stay quiet and let the civilian government run foreign policy. We need to stop letting the military participate in the economy and produce profits. The military's budget should come from taxes and the central government not themselves. How else will you control them? We need to let the people vote for their own representatives, we cannot have a democracy when potential candidates get disqualified before the people have a chance to hear them. In short, reforms are needed if not the populace will find another device to get what they want.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  14. mangekyousharingan

    mangekyousharingan FULL MEMBER

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    Any updates? I heard rumors that the internet is hut down permanently and replaced by intranet.

    We have the same problems in Norway. Government have cut aid to the poor and gave tax relief to the rich. Everything has become expensive, the average persons wage haven't changed. The rich are living luxurious lives. While the poor and middle class are struggling. A prime example is. The average cost of a two bedroom apartment in Oslo is 330 000 USD. You cant apply for a loan unless you have 20% (66k) at hand or another apartment to mortgage. No middle class has this kind of money laying around, and as a result you have to rent from the rich that can buy as many apartments they like. You end up paying more in rent than the downpayment of the loan. You are basically downpaying some rich guys loan. You never see a Norwegian guy go out and set fire to banks and cause destruction like they do in Iran.
     
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  15. GWXP

    GWXP FULL MEMBER

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    There are countries in the world that will experience devastating consequences if they become liberal democracies. One example is Russia and another example is Iran.

    Russia is a vast country with poor transportation system and as a consequence--- many regions are not linked with each other and with the rest of the country.

    Russian Far East is closer to China, Korea and Japan than to Moscow. Russian Muslim Caucasus can be closer to Turkey than to Moscow, Karelia is closer to Finland and oil and gas rich Western Siberia wants more autonomy and larger share of the oil pie.

    What keeps Russia united is a strong central government and powerful security apparatus.
    If Russia becomes a liberal democracy with rule of law and President being changed every 4 years---Russia will slowly fragment and decentralize.

    Iran is a multi ethnic country. If it will become a liberal democracy with rule of law--it will collapse.

    First--- minorities enjoying rule of law, will form political parties and demand more rights and autonomy and elect their representatives and later they will demand independence like Scotland and Catalonia in the West. (and they will receive massive support from USA and Israel)

    Second----Democracy will open the door for lobbyists. Tycoons will use their power, influence and money and put their weight behind presidential candidates (and once they get elected with their help)----tycoons who don't care about national interests and care only about making business with the West----will use their power, money and influence and will demand to give up national interests like nuclear and missile program for the sake of the West to remove sanctions, so they could make business with the West.

    So pure democracy in Iran with free speech and rule of law will bring to decentralization of Iran and betrayal of national interests by the elites.

    Country like Iran can exist only with a strong central government and powerful repressive apparatus.

    Filtration of candidates and institution of Supreme Leader guarantees unity of the country and protection of national interests even despite massive pressure from the West.
     
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