What's new

Iran Protests - Irani Girls Burning Their Veils !!!

Status
Not open for further replies.

sammuel

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 14, 2017
2,156
1
1,093
Country
Israel
Location
Israel
The only one who distorted reality and used inaccurate terminology in this context is you.

1) You repeated several times the brazen untruth that Mir-Hossein Mousavi in 2009 was the last reformist candidate to run in an election in Iran. Whereas in actuality, not a single election was held since then without reformist candidates being allowed to run.

2) Then you made the factually erroneous assertion that the Guardian Council's members "are appointed by the Supreme Leader", full stop.

This is false: only six out of twelve Guardians are appointed by the Leader.

View attachment 883582

3) Misquoted me about the other six members of the Guardian Council. I never used the phrase "democratically chosen by Majles". Simply, "chosen by Majles" is what I wrote.

You even possess the nerve to claim I "falsely tried to lie" about this, while changing my words. Whereas what I posted is 100% accurate.

4) Contrary to your misrepresentation, Majles does have multiple options at its disposal: it can simply vote against any of the jurists nominated by the Chief Justice. And anyone Majles votes against, will not gain a seat at the Guardian Council.

Again contrary to your statement, the Iranian Constitution states in Article 91.2:

"six jurists, specializing in different areas of law, to be elected by the Islamic Consultative Assembly [Majles] from among the Muslim jurists nominated-by the Head of the Judicial Power."

In other terms, the democratically and directly elected parliament can freely pick six out of a number of jurists nominated by the Head of the Judiciary. Majles is once again not confined to symbolically confirming a choice previously made by the Head of the Judiciary.

So we have at least four blatant untruths and/or misrepresentations about Iran from you in a single thread. Luckily someone's here to set the record straight.



Here's how it actually works:

1) Six adil fuqaha are appointed by the Supreme Leader to the Guardian Council.
2) Six other jurists specializing in various areas of law are freely chosen by the democratically elected parliament from amongst a list of nominees submitted to it by the Chief Justice.

The former six are therefore elected by parliament, which itself is elected by the people.



What I stated is:

- The parliament is democratically and directly elected by the people. Which is true.

- The Assembly of Experts, which appoints the Supreme Leader and can also remove him (meaning that the Leader is responsible in front of the Assembly, is democratically and directly elected by the people). Which is also true.

Conclusion: the Leader is indirectly elected by the Iranian people.



Facts are what I offered. Only hard, verifiable facts and nothing else.

Unlike at least four outright fabrications and/or misrepresentations you offered.



No MR , I will not allow you to mislead people here , by hiding behind walls of words.


Guardian Council has twelve members

6- are appointed by the the supreme leader.

6- nominated by the chief of Justice - and approved by the parliament ( majlis )

But the supreme leader appoints the chief justice, thus solidifying his control over the Guardian Council’s .

Tell me , what sort of suicidal Chief of justice , would Nominate to the Gordian council someone that the supreme leader does not approve of ?

And this Guardian council , that un elected body , that is entirely controlled by the supreme leader , has the power to veto any legislation passed by parliament.


And from all those dubious procedures you want to sell us as democracy .



Conclusion: the Leader is indirectly elected by the Iranian people.

Please remind us , when was it that the supreme leader was democracy elected by the Iranian people. ?


~
 
Last edited:

SalarHaqq

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 29, 2019
3,266
2
6,057
Country
Iran, Islamic Republic Of
Location
Belgium
No MR , I will not allow you to mislead people here , by hiding behind walls of words.

It's the opposite: the disinformation you issued is enumerated in my previous comment. It called for correction, which I provided.

By the way, interesting transition from "nobody reads your posts" towards an apparent urge to try and call into question the simple, verifiable facts I've been reminding. Seems like the "walls of words" are more efficient than assumed.

Guardian Council has twelve members

6 are appointed by the the supreme leader.

6- nominated by the chief of Justice - and approved by the parliament ( majlis )

No. The Chief Justice proposes a list of nominees, Majles then freely picks six out of that list. Majles does not simply "approve" them. That term is not in use anywhere, starting with the Iranian Constitution itself (see Article 91, Paragraph 2). This is a deliberate attempt at sweeping under the rug the role of Majles in determining the composition of the Guardian Council.

But since supreme leader appoints the chief justice, thus solidifying his control over the Guardian Council’s .

Majles, an institution directly elected by popular vote, is the one which picks half of the Guardian Council's members from among a wider list.

Half of the Guardian Council is therefore indirectly elected by the people.

And this Guardian council , that un elected body , that is entirely controlled by the supreme leader has the power to veto any legislation passed by parliament.

1) Half the members of the Guardian Council are chosen by the parliament from amongst a list of candidates. They are thus indirectly elected by the people.

2) The Supreme Leader himself is indirectly elected by the people. Given that he is appointed by the Assembly of Experts, which itself is directly elected by voters.

3) It is a standard feature of a democratic system to task a supreme judicial institution with verifying the constitutionality of legislation passed by parliament. If the legislation is found to violate constitutional provisions, the judicial institution in question may rule to render it void. This function is attributed to the Supreme Court in the USA for instance, to the Guardian Council in Iran, and so on.

Please remind us , when was it that the supreme leader was democracy elected by the Iranian people. ?

In 1989 the democratically elected Assembly of Experts appointed Supreme Leader Khamenei. Ever since, it has conserved the right to unseat him if it deems necessary to do so, meaning that the Leader has been and continues to be responsible towards this elected Assembly.
 
Last edited:

sammuel

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 14, 2017
2,156
1
1,093
Country
Israel
Location
Israel
It's the opposite: the disinformation you posted is enumerated in my previous comment, and had to be corrected by me.



False. The Chief Justice proposes a list of nominees, Majles then freely picks six out of that list. Majles does not simply "approve" them. Nowhere is that term used, starting with the Iranian Constitution itself, Article 91, Paragraph 2.



Majles, an institution directly elected by popular vote, is the one which picks half of the Guardian Council from among a wider list.

Half of the Guardian Council is therefore indirectly elected by the people.



1) Half the members of the Guardian Council are chosen by the parliament from amongst a wider list of candidates. They are thus indirectly elected by the people.

2) The Supreme Leader himself is indirectly elected by the people. Given that he is appointed by the Assembly of Experts, which itself is directly elected by voters.

3) It is a standard feature of a democratic system to have a supreme judicial institution tasked with verifying the constitutionality of legislation passed by the parliament. If the legislation is found to violate constitutional provisions, that judicial institution may rule to render it void. This role is fulfilled by the Supreme Court in the USA, and by the Guardian Council in Iran.



In 1989 the democratically elected Assembly of Experts appointed Supreme Leader Khamenei. Ever since, it has conserved the right to unseat him if it deems it necessary, meaning that the Leader has been and continues to be responsible towards this elected Assembly.



Tell what sort of suicidal Chief of justice , would Nominate to the Guardian council someone that the supreme leader does not approve of ?

If it was not enough that the supreme leader appoints 6 of the members of the Guardian Council , He also appoints the person ( chief of justice ) that nominates the other 6.

And if you see nothing wrong with this procedure , you are either blind , or pretend to be blind.

~
 

SalarHaqq

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 29, 2019
3,266
2
6,057
Country
Iran, Islamic Republic Of
Location
Belgium
Tell what sort of suicidal Chief of justice , would Nominate to the Guardian council someone that the supreme leader does not approve of ?

If it was not enough that the supreme leader appoints 6 of the members of the Guardian Council , He also appoints the person ( chief of justice ) that nominates the other 6.

And if you see nothing wrong with this procedure , you are either blind , or pretend to be blind.

Are you aware of the difference between nomination and appointment / election?

The six jurists in question aren't 'nominated' to the Guardian Council, they're elected to the Guardian Council by parliament. Nomination simply means being chosen as a candidate to run in an election.

The Chief Justice nominates multiple candidates, it's Majles which then elects six among those nominees. Moreover Majles can vote against any single one of them.

The Supreme Leader doesn't have the ability to approve or disapprove of those six.

As for "suicidal", the list of politicians in high office who deliberately chose to ignore multiple guidelines set by the Supreme Leader is practically as long as the number of acting Presidents so far (with two and a half exceptions: shahid Rajai, ayatollah Khamenei himself when he was President, as well as Ahmadinejad during his first term only). Former President Rohani even offended the Leader by directing insulting insinuations at him, but faced zero consequences.
 
Last edited:

sammuel

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 14, 2017
2,156
1
1,093
Country
Israel
Location
Israel
Not sure if you're aware of the difference between nomination and appointment.

The six jurists in question aren't 'nominated' to the Guardian Council, they're appointed to the Guardian Council by parliament. Nomination simply means being chosen as a candidate to run in an election.


6 are appointed by the Supreme leader and the other 6 , are nominated by a person ( chief of justice ) , who is also appointed by the Supreme leader.

And you want to argue that the Supreme leader does not have full control over the Guardian council,

~
 

-=virus=-

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 18, 2012
3,877
-20
2,419
Country
India
Location
India
My folks visited Iran during the time of the Shah, pre mullah madness days. I am told they wore all sorts of pretty dresses, wore their hair open and it was a super nice place otherwise too.
 

Falcon29

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 13, 2013
23,892
-10
21,838
Country
Palestinian Territory, Occupied
Location
United States
- Ahwaz separatists
- Balosh separatists
- Kurds separatists
- Azerbaijan lurking at the Azeri provinces
- Taliban madness in Afghanistan.
- Isreal looking for an opportunity to bomb / terminate your nuclear facilities.

When you have a regime that is succeeding in confronting all those problems and uniting all Iranians you stick with it.
Literally any govt can come up with 10 hypothetical threats to their country and use it to justify their absolute rule. Are people supposed to accept abuse and corruption according to your logic ?

I'm not Iranian, I'm Tunisian 🇹🇳
No you aren't.
 

SalarHaqq

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 29, 2019
3,266
2
6,057
Country
Iran, Islamic Republic Of
Location
Belgium
6 are appointed by the Supreme leader and the other 6 , are nominated by a person ( chief of justice ) , who is also appointed by the Supreme leader.

Key point you're trying to obscure in vain, is that the latter six are elected by parliament. Nomination merely relates to candidacy, not to ultimate election or appointment. Parliament can reject any of the Chief Justice's nominees.

And you want to argue that the Supreme leader does not have full control over the Guardian council,

Of course he doesn't. It's parliament which elects half of the Guardian Council's members.

Moreover, the Supreme Leader himself is indirectly elected by the people.
 
Last edited:

Char

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 31, 2018
2,422
0
3,040
Country
China
Location
China
Whether you wear a headscarf or not, I hope Iran doesn't make a big mess.
 

sammuel

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 14, 2017
2,156
1
1,093
Country
Israel
Location
Israel
Key point you're trying to obscure in vain, is that the latter six are elected by parliament. Nomination merely relates to candidacy, not to ultimate election or appointment. Parliament can reject any of the Chief Justice's nominees.


In 2019 , out 0f 5 candidates put forward by the chief of justice , parliament had to choose 3.


Suppose someone offered to bring you any fruit you wanted , what will you choose ?

A . an orange

B. an orange

C. an orange


Wow, you went for the orange , what a surprise , did not see that coming , you must have an expensive taste ,



~


~
 
Last edited:

Jf Thunder

ELITE MEMBER
Dec 10, 2013
8,742
-4
8,277
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
may Allah help the Iranian people

but I sincerely hope, this movement will not be hijacked by the west, like it usually does. Because then, the movement usually fails and dies down.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom