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Iran is learning from Russia’s use of missiles in Ukraine

Ich

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What about strategic bombers? Can you guarantee that Iran will never need them in the next 30 years?

The US has over 700+ B-52 bombers and I cannot imagine Iran building even a single one without foreign help in the next 3 decades. The US will continue to operate its B-52 fleet until 2050.
Well, these bombers today are only used as startpoint of CMs against countries with good air defence. Far away from the borders. Whereas soon also US will have hypersonic missiles and then such bombers will become to cost intensiv. You can see that Russia uses its aircrafts/bombers in the same way. Most "ranged work" is done by missiles and hypersonic missiles.

Iran needs to learn from others. There's no shame in that. We need to work with anyone who is willing to work with us at any cost to make meaningful progress in the engine technology.

Sure, learning from others is also a good thing. But there is no need to take in things that are mostly obsolete in near future.
 

TheImmortal

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Iran's doctrine is out of necessity. We can't build a powerful air force, so we have to rely on our missiles.
Our case is a perfect example of the law of the instrument.
The US has exceled in both fields (jet fighters and missiles) and it has chosen the former for obvious reasons.

Iran’s doctrine isn’t to win a large scale war.

Iran’s doctrine is to cause enough deterrence to avoid that war. If war still happens, then the missiles doctrine aim is to bring a ceasefire as soon as possible.

Land invasion of Iran is impossible. Geographically, politically, economically, militarily.
 

Ich

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MARVs do mid course adjustments at high altitude.

Might be possible with a quasi BM small missile like F-110 family. They already have Fateh Mobin using infrared homing.


According to this vid Iran already have MARV. So it would not be unpossible to build MIRV and every RV as MARV, guided by a drone. The RVs do not have to be big, just enough to hunt fleeing tanks and then destroy with top attack.

 

zartosht

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These facts tell us a great deal about the limits of Iran’s power projection in the Middle East. Russia’s more powerful, precise, and diverse missile stockpile was not able to change the course of the war in Ukraine, so there is no reason to believe that Iranian missiles could ever do so, especially against a more powerful opponent


Ukraine is a completely different animal to the opponents Irans facing.

Ukraine is rural, piss poor, and has enormous/unlimitede stragetic depth when considering its size and shared borders to friendly NATO states. There just isnt anything really valuable for Russia to take out in Ukraine. And they have less then 0 value for their own soldiers or civilains lives. So regardless of losses, they will continue to throw lambs to the slaughter.

The countries that would potentially be eating Iranian missiles would be the zionist entity, Saudi arabia/persian gulf wahabi states, and US bases.

There are alot of juicy/expensive targets in these countries that would absolutely paralyze them overnight. And unlike ukraine, they have alot to lose. ALOT.

This gives them 100x times more detterence, and destructive power then the enemy russia is fighting. On the other end, Iran is unlikely to use too many missiles if it gets into a war with the taliban, for much of the same reasons..

If Russia was theoritically going to war against a western european state with alot to lose , Those conventional precision missiles would be the scariest conventional weapon Russia would have.
 

TheImmortal

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According to this vid Iran already have MARV. So it would not be unpossible to build MIRV and every RV as MARV, guided by a drone. The RVs do not have to be big, just enough to hunt fleeing tanks and then destroy with top attack.


First of all it seems you are confused.

A MARV is a warhead from a RV that can maneuver in the upper atmosphere. A MIRV is multiple MARVs from the same RV that can each maneuver to independent target from each other. Emad is the name of Iran’s MaRV for Shahab-3 missiles.

Also why would you use a valuable and expensive BM to destroy tank(s)? Makes no sense. A single Ababil-5 can carry 4 spikes missiles.

Lastly MARVs tend to have high terminal
Velocity which leads to the plasma burn around the nose of warhead thus limiting whatever laser based sensor suite you are trying to make work.
 

Abid123

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Bavar 373 is an odd case with questionable range and almost identical speeds to the S-300 with less missiles per battery and a fancy external covering. If you are kind enough to point out the short range medium ranged capabilities to counter excessive aerial or MLRS bombardment on troops?
Bavar can detect up to 100 targets, track 60, and engage six of them simultaneously. Looks like a solid long range SAM. The fact that it is indigenous is a big bonus.
 

Blue In Green

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According to this vid Iran already have MARV. So it would not be unpossible to build MIRV and every RV as MARV, guided by a drone. The RVs do not have to be big, just enough to hunt fleeing tanks and then destroy with top attack.


You don't want to use Ballistic Missiles to destroy tanks. The cost to benefit ratio in that type of engagement would be disastrous. UCAVs with ATGMs could easily fill that roll especially if one could saturate the air-space with them.

Sincerely hoping Iran can get their hands on those left-over drone Targeting PODS in Afghanistan. Those optics are what makes drones like the BAYRAKTAR-TB2 so effective on the battlefield.

Addendum: My apologies lol, I didn't see the fleeing part of your post. Yes, I mean if Iranian ISR can locate and attack on the move or stationary formations of enemy tanks. Then, I think the tactical use of BMs in that scenario would be appropriate and useful. Such an operation would need to be done using drones/air-force(unlikely) that are in continuous communications with missile forces so that they could coordinate a strike on such heavy-armor formations.
 
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Ich

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First of all it seems you are confused.
No.

A MARV is a warhead from a RV that can maneuver in the upper atmosphere. A MIRV is multiple MARVs from the same RV that can each maneuver to independent target from each other. Emad is the name of Iran’s MaRV for Shahab-3 missile

Not every MIRV has MARV.

Also why would you use a valuable and expensive BM to destroy tank(s)? Makes no sense. A single Ababil-5 can carry 4 spikes missiles.

If one MIRV_MARV missile can destroy multiple targets like tanks, then this missile is cost effectiv. A drone with some missiles attached is more cost effectiv, yes, but can be detected. You can see it in the Ukraine-Russia war. At the beginning, the turkish drones were effectiv cause of the surprise that they even exists. After a while news about successful drone attacks getting rare cause they were adapted. A smaller drone only for designation is much more difficult to detect.

Velocity which leads to the plasma burn around the nose of warhead thus limiting whatever laser based sensor suite you are trying to make work.

How does it worked in the vid?
 

Hydration

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LOLs at the bold part.
Off the top of my head, check these systems for short/medium range:
Khordad-15
Khordad-3
Raad 1 & 2
Ya Zahra
Mersad
Zoubin

There are many more systems. And then you should check our radars too, including OTH radars that cover the entire MENA and Eastern Europe. Check the thread if you are seriously interested in the subject. It's not something that you can give it a skim look and then form an opinion and discuss it. We are not talking about the AD systems that the Egyptian military produces, with all due respect.


Yeah, but what are we going to do until then? Plus, you talk as if it's going to make a difference for us. Our problem with jet fighters is not about having a pilot, but it's about engine technology. And that problem will be transferred to large UCAVs that can replace jet fighters as well.
We are talking about the current formations and most of the systems used by iran are rooted from the american hawk which has proven to be ineffective in modern conflict al watiya airbase is a good example with exception to bavar 373 and the listed above based upon russian chinese systems introduced in the 90s 2000s and iam talking variants. The upgrades seem to be almost identical to the old versions of these systems bavar being at a max range of 250km for the missile and a detection range of 300km. Theres a factor that these numbers are inflated as reveling it publicly is dumb. Irans possession of 3rd generation short to medium ranged missiles easily distracted traditional countermeasures as flares. For the bavar threat SCALP cruise missiles employed by emiriati rafales or egyptian coupled with a formation of f16s with al tariq winged small diameter bombs as a distraction overcomplicate the situation for the bavar and its formation of short range medium ranged 3rd generations missiles which it wont be able to deny.
Seems like iran isnt focusing on quality or the percentage hit rate success but only numbers and the range ignoring that it might be jammed easily or miss its target, thinking like nasser era of the 60s
Covering whole mena region means covering morroco the prominet radar barely covers egyptian border with libya and tracking a fighter jet from all this noise from other sources will be impossible.
For a seven year old defence industry making of a 2d radar with 250km range and a 3d radar with 450km range in the works, and ofc lots of the products of the defense industry doesnt see the light of the media and is kept under secrecyit is not aimed at export but to enhance the detection network already nicknamed "Fly detector" By NATO
Well I don't know where you guys have been for the last few years, but considering Iran has no desire to invade foreign countries in seize territory, I'd like to see how you think we give a shit about providing CAS to troops that are not fighting..

Egyptian airforce would be rendered useless in a near-pear conflict, if you think it'd fair any different than Russia, then i don't know what to tell you. You should know from those last 2 wars.
Yeah i should know, destroyed half the israeli airforce in a single month that received the best tech available with huge numbers with no financial limit and egypt having r3-s missile one of the worst air to air missiles managed to rack up kills along with the air defence. so far the iranain capability to defend its airpace is limited and cant challenge an aerial attack with cruise missiles and small quarter bombs which is the most likely scenario of a conflict aiming to destroy air defenses and nuclear facilities
 

Ich

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Because it’s not following a traditional BM path, it’s a glide vehicle strike profile. Most MIRVs/MARVs re-enter from space at hypersonic speeds creating the plasma from intense heat around the nose.


So this also can be used as MIRV_MARV. I also remember a version of Fateh missile used against aircraft carriers. This missile uses EO to identify the carrier and then lock in. Speed is Mach 3+. So there is also plasma.
 

Blue In Green

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We are talking about the current formations and most of the systems used by iran are rooted from the american hawk which has proven to be ineffective in modern conflict al watiya airbase is a good example with exception to bavar 373 and the listed above based upon russian chinese systems introduced in the 90s 2000s and iam talking variants. The upgrades seem to be almost identical to the old versions of these systems bavar being at a max range of 250km for the missile and a detection range of 300km. Theres a factor that these numbers are inflated as reveling it publicly is dumb. Irans possession of 3rd generation short to medium ranged missiles easily distracted traditional countermeasures as flares. For the bavar threat SCALP cruise missiles employed by emiriati rafales or egyptian coupled with a formation of f16s with al tariq winged small diameter bombs as a distraction overcomplicate the situation for the bavar and its formation of short range medium ranged 3rd generations missiles which it wont be able to deny.
Seems like iran isnt focusing on quality or the percentage hit rate success but only numbers and the range ignoring that it might be jammed easily or miss its target, thinking like nasser era of the 60s
Covering whole mena region means covering morroco the prominet radar barely covers egyptian border with libya and tracking a fighter jet from all this noise from other sources will be impossible.
For a seven year old defence industry making of a 2d radar with 250km range and a 3d radar with 450km range in the works, and ofc lots of the products of the defense industry doesnt see the light of the media and is kept under secrecyit is not aimed at export but to enhance the detection network already nicknamed "Fly detector" By NATO

Yeah i should know, destroyed half the israeli airforce in a single month that received the best tech available with huge numbers with no financial limit and egypt having r3-s missile one of the worst air to air missiles managed to rack up kills along with the air defence. so far the iranain capability to defend its airpace is limited and cant challenge an aerial attack with cruise missiles and small quarter bombs which is the most likely scenario of a conflict aiming to destroy air defenses and nuclear facilities
Thing is, Iranian strategy in wartime is centered squarely on utterly saturating the enemy with as many missiles, drones and cruise missiles as humanly possible in the beginning stages of the conflict.

Any Iranian Air-assets used will be utilize after the enemies ability to retaliate has been greatly reduced to manageable levels.
 

TheImmortal

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So this also can be used as MIRV_MARV. I also remember a version of Fateh missile used against aircraft carriers. This missile uses EO to identify the carrier and then lock in. Speed is Mach 3+. So there is also plasma.

I already showed you above Fateh Mobin version that uses an infrared nose cone. Persian Gulf Missile uses Opticial guidance and another version uses radiation seeker for anti ship targeting.

Like I said it’s possible on quasi ballistic paths. I have not seen it on any traditional BM missile like a Sejill class or Shahab-3 class.

We are talking about the current formations and most of the systems used by iran are rooted from the american hawk

No, they aren’t.

Most of Iran’s air defense systems use Sayyad family of AA missiles. That is based on the SM-3 body, not the HAWK.

A simple google would teach you this.
 

Hydration

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No, they aren’t.

Most of Iran’s air defense systems use Sayyad family of AA missiles. That is based on the SM-3 body, not the HAWK.

A simple google would teach you this.
Forgot to edit this . Short to medium ranged indeginous development is rooted from the american hawk and french croatile with minor advancments and very similair. The rest are from russian chinese designs with almost identical specifications. And no data on the accuracy of these "indigenous" products.
 

drmeson

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I love it when people from other regional countries who grew up under the belief of "Iran has F-5 and Scuds only" end up seeing Sejjil MaRV-MRBM, Emad, Kheibar Shikan, our SLV's, Bavar-373, Karrar tanks, Kaman-22/Gaza wide-body MALE UCAVs, Fateh class, long range cruise missiles etc etc they end up making the stupid most clueless comments like our misri friend here is doing.

A few weeks ago one turkish was claiming that Turkey with its short range SAMS and Short range BM has somehow become regional power ROFL, likely he did not know that Iran makes and operates domestically made AESA coupled long range SAMS and MaRV-MRBMs that can hit CEP of less than 10 m.

We are very humble people with no idea what self boosting propoganda is. We have a killer in our arsenal called Khalije Fars Anti-Shipping Ballastic Quasi Trajectory Ballastic Missile, we have literally shown it from its seeker piercing barges into pieces in persian gulf yet most people here think only China fields out AShBMs.
 

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