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Indus Nationalism could have avoided the tragedy of Partition

Progressive1

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Biggest advantage would have been fast track to secularism ,it will eventually happen even now but a lot of generations will remain hostage to "Islam is indispensiple part of pakistani identity" when the fact is it isnt.
 

letsrock

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How was the wanton death and destruction good for any country? Partition based on religion created a rush for the border......How the hell can Tamil or Mizorami Muslims live with Pashtun or Gilgiti Muslims?
So you agree tamils and mizos need to seperate nations ? while you keep trying to think of how better pakistan could have formed or NOT formed why do you remain so satisfied with india? is India not several times more misfit than pakistan with several nationalities ?
 

hussain0216

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Biggest advantage would have been fast track to secularism ,it will eventually happen even now but a lot of generations will remain hostage to "Islam is indispensiple part of pakistani identity" when the fact is it isnt.

Yes it is, get used to it

The majority of our population support it, if you don't like it go somewhere else


Indians regularly come up with weird bullshit which is really rooted in their own mental problems and hang ups.
What their real hang up is
Why did we dump hinduism
Why did we tear Indian apart
Why don't we gice a fcuk about shit they want us to care about
Ultimately why don't we become liberal in name only Muslims who embrace the utter Jahilat of Indian culture as some sort of South Asian identity



It's not going to happen, they and you can go fcuk off and live in your hindutva extremist communal shithole in India because Pakistan is for us.

Pakistan is a ancient land, our people are ancient,
this is our state
Our home
our land

Take your Indic bullshit somewhere else

 

magra

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You slaughtered kashmiris. That's why we didn't leave. Why should we trust you and the Dogra allies you had taken?
Any atrocities committed were by Kashmir State forces before Indian Army came in. There was no instance of atrocities committed by Indian army. Anyways, UN observers would have been there.
You knew that Sheikh Abdullah was pro-India and most Kashmiri muslims listened to him. You feared that a plebiscite at that point would have probably gone in India's favor. This was the reason you never vacated your troops to allow plebiscite.
 
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So you agree tamils and mizos need to seperate nations ? while you keep trying to think of how better pakistan could have formed or NOT formed why do you remain so satisfied with india? is India not several times more misfit than pakistan with several nationalities ?

Tamilians and Mizoramis share the ethos of India and choose to be in India...shared culture,geography is needed...A Mapilla Muslim in Karachi has zero connection to the Indus
 

Progressive1

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Yes it is, get used to it

The majority of our population support it, if you don't like it go somewhere else


Indians regularly come up with weird bullshit which is really rooted in their own mental problems and hang ups.
What their real hang up is
Why did we dump hinduism
Why did we tear Indian apart
Why don't we gice a fcuk about shit they want us to care about
Ultimately why don't we become liberal in name only Muslims who embrace the utter Jahilat of Indian culture as some sort of South Asian identity



It's not going to happen, they and you can go fcuk off and live in your hindutva extremist communal shithole in India because Pakistan is for us.

Pakistan is a ancient land, our people are ancient,
this is our state
Our home
our land

Take your Indic bullshit somewhere else
I am pakistani and love it to core, and my only goal is to see pakistan at top tier country in world , i have my own vision for it , doesnt need your approval.
 

masterchief_mirza

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Any atrocities committed were by Kashmir State forces before Indian Army came in. There was no instance of atrocities committed by Indian army. Anyways, UN observers would have been there.
You knew that Sheikh Abdullah was pro-India and most Kashmiri muslims listened to him. You feared that a plebiscite at that point would have probably gone in India's favor. This was the reason you never vacated your troops to allow plebiscite.
Pakistan's whole raison d'etre was to safeguard the subcontinent's Muslims. You have failed to acknowledge that even Jinnah originally favoured a unified nation free from the British but was swayed when it became evident that the self-loathing psychological burdens of hindustanis would cause them to carry out a "grand reclamation" at the expense of Muslims. That this sentiment spread to Jammu and Kashmir is no surprise or shock. The people slaughtered and dispossessed by Dogra filth are our brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers. We will liberate them by any means necessary. Stay on your toes. We're not going away.

Sadly we have strayed from the OP, which was a more interesting discussion. I recommend we return to that, because this issue is at an impasse for both our nations.
 

letsrock

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Tamilians and Mizoramis share the ethos of India and choose to be in India...shared culture,geography is needed...A Mapilla Muslim in Karachi has zero connection to the Indus
Really ? you confidently asserted a tamil muslim cannot be with gilgit muslim then on what basis can a tamil hindu live with a kashmiri pandit? And what do you mean tamils chose to be in india. was there a referendum? if you hold a referendum now leave alone tamils even marathis will go with their own if gujrat is stuck with cowbelt they will go on their own too. stope being delusional.
 

magra

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Pakistan's whole raison d'etre was to safeguard the subcontinent's Muslims. You have failed to acknowledge that even Jinnah originally favoured a unified nation free from the British but was swayed when it became evident that the self-loathing psychological burdens of hindustanis would cause them to carry out a "grand reclamation" at the expense of Muslims. That this sentiment spread to Jammu and Kashmir is no surprise or shock. The people slaughtered and dispossessed by Dogra filth are our brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers. We will liberate them by any means necessary. Stay on your toes. We're not going away.

Sadly we have strayed from the OP, which was a more interesting discussion. I recommend we return to that, because this issue is at an impasse for both our nations.
Whatever 'grand reclamation' means?
Even with reduced Muslim percentage in India post partition, we did not see any large scale atrocities. In fact, Muslim percentage only rose since 1947 till date.

Sure, lets return to OP. I dont agree with the OP. Already explained that if we agree on Indus nationalism, then we will also see Gangetic nationalism, Maratha nationalism and so on.
 
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Really ? you confidently asserted a tamil muslim cannot be with gilgit muslim then on what basis can a tamil hindu live with a kashmiri pandit? And what do you mean tamils chose to be in india. was there a referendum? if you hold a referendum now leave alone tamils even marathis will go with their own if gujrat is stuck with cowbelt they will go on their own too. stope being delusional.

Mizoram shares border with Assam,which in turn shares border with West Bengal,which in turn with Orissa, which in turn with Andhra which in turn with Tamil Nadu.....that's how shared Geography...Pakistan does not have such shared geography with a Bihari Muslim or a Mapilla Muslim...


Tamils or Mizos choose to be in India by taking part in the general election
 

letsrock

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Mizoram shares border with Assam,which in turn shares border with West Bengal,which in turn with Orissa, which in turn with Andhra which in turn with Tamil Nadu.....that's how shared Geography...Pakistan does not have such shared geography with a Bihari Muslim or a Mapilla Muslim...


Tamils or Mizos choose to be in India by taking part in the general election
hahaha..well then they share kashmir shares border with afghanistan which shares with uzebikstan which shares with china and so on . why are you guys generally so insane.

General election is not a referendum mate. Don't use the word "chose" - that is an active decision taken. what you are doing is claiming indirectly that since they vote here they accepted india. I never said tamils or gujratis are actively rejecting india - they arent. But they never accepted it as well. It would be great to have referendum because your basic premise is right - how can a tamil live with a kashmiri pandit? what sort of "nation" are they? they niether spkea the same language nor worship the same gods nor intermarry - why force them in a nation and make one pay for other in taxes ?
 
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hahaha..well then they share kashmir shares border with afghanistan which shares with uzebikstan which shares with china and so on . why are you guys generally so insane.

General election is not a referendum mate. Don't use the word "chose" - that is an active decision taken. what you are doing is claiming indirectly that since they vote here they accepted india. I never said tamils or gujratis are actively rejecting india - they arent. But they never accepted it as well. It would be great to have referendum because your basic premise is right - how can a tamil live with a kashmiri pandit? what sort of "nation" are they? they niether spkea the same language nor worship the same gods nor intermarry - why force them in a nation and make one pay for other in taxes ?

Afghanistan is ANOTHER sovereign nation...Mizoram to Tamil Nadu chain is NOT..this is why your logic doesnot work
 

letsrock

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Afghanistan is ANOTHER sovereign nation...Mizoram to Tamil Nadu chain is NOT..this is why your logic doesnot work
You said geographical continuity there now changing to nation. Before 1947 mizorama too was one nation with gilgit. You basically have no idea what you talk about - isnt it ?
 

khanmubashir

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Let's get one thing straight here at the outset..I am not against the existence of Pakistan in fact all for it..But as towering a giant as Quaid-E-Azam was, this was one big blindspot in his vision...He backed the wrong Two Nation Theory...If he had backed the Indus Theory then the unnecessary blood shed and tragedy could have been avoided....Millions of Indus Sikhs and Hindus would not have had to leave the region and millions of completely alien people would not have come in giving the region a reverse cultural shock...the process of Partition would have been seamless...it would have been as easy devloving one state out of a bigger state in India...A bureaucratic nightmare? Sure...but not a human tragedy ...............The Indus river existed for millions of years...The distinct culture around Indus had existed for thousands and thousands of years....The genesis of Pakistan lies in the mists of time and the love people of Pakistan have for their land is certainly older than 570 AD..............What similiarity does an Indus Pashtun or Gilgiti have with a Tamilian? seriously?

If the Indus Partition theory was executed, the relations between India and Pakistan would have been very smooth and exemplary...Like that of between Czech Republic and Slovakia...where one PM visits another PM before the end of the term to say goodbye......I refuse to be held hostage to the wrong Two Nation Theory



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EDIT:
Another side effect would have been that Kashmir,Jammu along with Buddhist Ladakh would have naturally ended up with Pakistan...Indus Nationalism being the driving force behind creation of Pakistan, India would not have been able to logically argue against Indus rationale....But on the upside for India would have been that present day Bangladesh would have fallen into Indian hands, along woth Theravada Buddhist Chittagong Hill Tract........Having CHT would have been way more of a boost for the legitimacy of the new Indian state than Kashmir ever could have been.......CHT is the only place in the subcontinental mainland that houses the original sect of Buddhism (Theravada) in an unbroken lineage ...Ladakh,Nepal,Sikkim,Bhutan,Arunachal,Spiti Valley house the newer Vajrayana sect

India being the birthplace of Buddhism, having CHT would have beeen the feather in the cap of atheistic, pro-Buddhist, anti-Hindu,anti-superstition Nehru



Kashmir conflict is entirely due to the wrong two-Nation Theory
Another level of stupid mind farts

even for an Indian

What Congress and English sold the idea of Indians
What rss sold was idea of of hindutva which was also used by Congress when it suited em
And for all that required destroying the identity of Muslims to bend them to the hindutva liking

Jinnah and Muslim league understood the bigotry of hindutva as they experienced it first hand
So had to unite Muslim under two nation theory
When massacres happened only thing that was seen of which religion you are

You could be neighbours of same caste for centuries but still no guarantee because of different faiths
Had partition not happened in 47 within few decades independent India would have gone balkanization on steroids with far worse deaths

And even the level of killing during partition can be mostly blamed on British who on the wishes of nehru and Congress made nascent state of Pakistan as weak as they could while Congress didn't tried to stop hindutva goons for politics
 

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