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Indonesia says it has seized Iranian and Panamanian tankers

Philosopher

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So all those insults and wise assing are just a way to hide that you are also a sensitive cry baby as well? Man if you are gonna report me coz you are sensitive, you could have saved yourself from over embarassing yourself by reporting me since the start.
You were reported because insulting is something that needs to be reported in this forum. Basic common sense, no?
 

Philosopher

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And having you reduced to a mere sensitive cry baby in return? Worth it!
Following forum rules is not being sensitive, it's a matter of keeping the place clean from trolls that would otherwise continue to pollute it.
 

nufix

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Following forum rules is not being sensitive, it's a matter of keeping the place clean from trolls that would otherwise continue to pollute it.
Well you need to report yourself then if we are to go by the book. This whole thing started when you derailed the thread and simply became wiseass troll. I mean ignoramus?? Just say ignorant you cringe.
 

Philosopher

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Well you need to report yourself then if we are to go by the book. This whole thing started when you derailed the thread and simply became wiseass troll. I mean ignoramus?? Just say ignorant you cringe.
There is a difference between engagement on a related subtopic and resorting to insults. Refrain from insults.
 

Philosopher

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See? More wiseassing. Is another report coming or what? Lol
All of your posts that involved insults have been/will be reported. Like I said, avoid polluting the forum with those language. Either engage in a mature way or not at all.
 

nufix

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All of your posts that involved insults have been/will be reported. Like I said, avoid polluting the forum with those language. Either engage in a mature way or not at all.
Or there is a way of engaging in playful manner. I often chose that when I think my counterpart is not worth my seriousness.

anyway, try to also mention a specific moderator in your post. They will process your reports quicker. Just a tip from a friend ;)
 

Philosopher

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Or there is a way of engaging in playful manner.
Insulting and playful manner may be synonymous to those with an immature mindset.

I often chose that when I think my counterpart is not worth my seriousness.
Insulting takes all seriousness away from your character, but clearly you think that is beneficial to you. You're very wrong, it only makes your "arguments" lose all substance (if they had any to begin with).

anyway, try to also mention a specific moderator in your post. They will process your reports quicker. Just a tip from a friend ;)
Moderators do not want to be directly tagged, they want the posts to be reported instead. If you want clarification, speak to the admin team. Moreover, I am in no hurry, the team will deal with the reported posts as they go through them.
 

nufix

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Insulting and playful manner may be synonymous to those with an immature mindset.



Insulting takes all seriousness away from your character, but clearly you think that is beneficial to you. You're very wrong, it only makes your "arguments" lose all substance (if they had any to begin with).



Moderators do not want to be directly tagged, they want the posts to be reported instead. If you want clarification, speak to the admin team. Moreover, I am in no hurry, the team will deal with the reported posts as they go through them.
Yes, report them all you want. But you can also tag them for quicker action.
 

Indos

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That is mostly a South Korean project of which you are merely a financier:

"The Korean side held 80 percent of the shares in the program while Indonesia, with its lower defense expenditure, less advanced military industrial base and smaller planned purchases, held the remaining 20 percent"


More on this:

It seems they do not even consider you a major partner:

"A mock-up of the S Korean KFX Jet displayed for the first time at the ADEX 2019 event in Seoul has raised eyebrows as it does not have the moniker of its Indonesian partner.

Jakarta would have to pay 20% development cost in exchange of three prototypes


However, Indonesia has ran up an arrears of 230 billion won (US$200 million) by skipping milestone payments as part of its participation in the South Korean-led KF-X project, a spokesperson for the S Korean Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), Kang Hwan-seok had told reporters in Seoul on October 22, 2018.


You are acting as if you are involved heavily in creating technologies for this fighter jet. There is one thing to develop technology, it is another thing to pay cash for it be developed by more developed nation. So is this this? This is all the example you could muster?



Exporting what? Your imagination? This fighter jet is a Korean project and not even developed yet and you're claiming to have exported them? Look, I have a couple of Indonesian friends here so I do not want to talk down on Indonesia, but please do not make me laugh trying to compare yourself to Iran in the defence sector. Sure Iran has shortcomings in certain defence sectors but what it has managed to achieved under these sanctions is something you could only dream about.
Look bro, unlike @nufix I do acknowledge Iran military industry capability, but saying Indonesia is just a financier of KFX/IFX program is wrong and need to be fixed. The plan uses many US technology like engine so we still depend on the US regardless we develop it with South Korea. So it is not logic if we finance the program around 2 billon USD for unproven design where we can still buy proven F16 V from US.

The program cost make us dont finance our own plane program like R 80 that is actually costing less than 2 billion USD to develop. R 80 plane is 100 % Indonesian and has more possibility to make profit, even KFX/IFX chief designer acknowledge that civil program is more profitable than jet fighter program with huge cost and limited market (since it has to compete with Western fighters). So it is not logic we finance KFX/IFX program by sacrificing our own. We also can buy modern fighter from Western countries.

We are not a rich nation like Gulf nation, 2 billion USD is huge for us. We will not give 2 billion USD to develop someone else aircraft program. That cost is enough to make Indonesia has N 245 and R 80 program simultaneously which we even cannot afford currently. N 245 has gotten approved just the end of last year and development cost is not that high. R 80 program is still get pending.

The reason we do it is to improve our designers and engineers in production division in making jet fighter. The program started in 2009 where Indonesia and SK make MOU and the research going on since 2010 where at that time there is only DAPA from Korea and Indonesian Aerospace and ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology) plus some fighters pilots from Korea and Indonesia.

Indonesia has had design experience and develop modern aircraft since 1977 while aircraft development is still new for South Korea with their first project KT Wong Bee and then T 50 Golden Eagle with US assistance. We dont get another country assistance since we build N 250 during 1990-1995, N 2130 1995-2000 (failed due to IMF) and N 219.

KAI Korea also forbid Indonesia designers whose age below 35 which means they really need experience designers. You should come to KFX/IFX thread to know more about the program. There are knowledgeable Korean as well in that thread that are contributing, not only me.

This is what Korean side said.

"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.




Our first developed aircraft is this. We build this in 1957. It is still a small workshop in Air Force facility but later the facility become Indonesian Aerospace. The designer is Nurtanio who is a aerospace engineer graduated from one of Philippine university (at that time Philippine has better economy and education system than Indonesia that has independence war since 1945-1949)

1611697800272.png


The LIPNUR Sikumbang (manufacturer designation X-01) was a low-wing monoplane of mixed construction built in Indonesia in 1954 as a COIN and anti-guerrilla-warfare aircraft. Of conventional configuration, it had fixed tricycle undercarriage and seated the pilot under a bubble canopy. A single example was built under the designation NU-200 in 1954, and another as the NU-225 in 1957. The latter machine was grounded in 1967.

 
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Philosopher

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Look bro, unlike @nufix I do acknowledge Iran military industry capability, but saying Indonesia is just a financier of KFX/IFX program is wrong and need to be fixed. The plan uses many US technology like engine so we still depend on the US regardless we develop it with South Korea. So it is not logic if we finance the program around 2 billon USD for unproven design where we can still buy proven F16 V from US.

The program cost make us dont finance our own plane program like R 80 that is actually costing less than 2 billion USD to develop. R 80 plane is 100 % Indonesian and has more possibility to make profit, even KFX/IFX chief designer acknowledge that civil program is more profitable than jet fighter program with huge cost and limited market (since it has to compete with Western fighters). So it is not logic we finance KFX/IFX program by sacrificing our own. We also can buy modern fighter from Western countries.

The reason we do it is to improve our designers and engineers in production division in making jet fighter. The program started in 2009 where Indonesia and SK make MOU and the research going on since 2010 where at that time there is only DAPA from Korea and Indonesian Aerospace and ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology) plus some fighters pilots from Korea and Indonesia.

Indonesia has had design experience and develop modern aircraft since 1977 while aircraft development is still new for South Korea with their first project KT Wong Bee and then T 50 Golden Eagle with US assistance. We dont get another country assistance since we build N 250 during 1990-1995, N 2130 1995-2000 (failed due to IMF) and N 219.

KAI Korea also forbid Indonesia designers whose age below 30 which means they really need experience designers. You should come to KFX/IFX thread to know more about the program. There are knowledgeable Korean as well in that thread that are contributing, not only me.

This is what Korean side said.

"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.




Our first developed aircraft is this. We build this in 1957. It is still a small workshop in Aerospace facility but later the facility become Indonesian Aerospace.

View attachment 710856

The LIPNUR Sikumbang (manufacturer designation X-01) was a low-wing monoplane of mixed construction built in Indonesia in 1954 as a COIN and anti-guerrilla-warfare aircraft. Of conventional configuration, it had fixed tricycle undercarriage and seated the pilot under a bubble canopy. A single example was built under the designation NU-200 in 1954, and another as the NU-225 in 1957. The latter machine was grounded in 1967.

I see where you are coming from. Just to note, I did just a general search into this project and prima facie I could not see what technological contribution Indonesia was making. I even recall at various point Indonesia almost left that project? I am sure you know far more about this project than I do so if you claim Indonesia is indeed providing more than just finance then I will accept it. I certainly agree just being part of this project will learn Indonesia valuable experience.
 

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