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umigami

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If that Prabs rumoured motto "screw those single engine fighter!" True I think SHornet has more posibility.
It's actually pretty good. Same engine with KFX (It's not like F404 engine family is alien to us), good maritime strike capability, longer range, etc.

But maybe you're right, SHornet is too much undertaking for our AF. But again our new motto for defence procurement now is "MoD is the God, screw user's opinion!!". :drag:
When I think about it carefully, maybe this isn't fully a bad thing afteral. If we just let TNI do whatever they want, "barang kocak" like Kilo submarine or boomerang 8x8 surely will occupy our garage now.
When will KFX made it's first flight, IOC, FOC??

We need those jets fast,ASAP
33 F-16s just wont cut.
It'll take years for IFX to finally enter our fleet.
That is why our F16 fleet still need to get its CCIP upgrade.
 

Gundala

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Jatosint

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Our Marine force will be lead by 3 stars Generals next year? Thats awesome, is it going to be similar to how US put their marine corps? What interesting is how our Marine will report directly to Panglima and how KASAL role mainly do pembinaan. Really love this idea, now give them the tools they need mainly coastal defense things :D

Korps Marinir Akan Dipimpin Jenderal Bintang 3, Pengamat: Pembinaan Pasti Akan Berubah
Sudah jadi atensi sejak Perpres 66 tahun 2019 narik Marinir dari dibawah KSAL ditarik jadi Kotama Ops di bawah P5

======================================================================

 

trishna_amṛta

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When I think about it carefully, maybe this isn't fully a bad thing afteral. If we just let TNI do whatever they want, "barang kocak" like Kilo submarine or boomerang 8x8 surely will occupy our garage now.
To think of it, our current MoD do seem to have better sense of managerial overall than our previous MoD

It'll take years for IFX to finally enter our fleet.
That is why our F16 fleet still need to get its CCIP upgrade.
That still assuming we will commit buy any of those without any hazzle (as in payment related)
 

HellFireIndo

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Our Marine force will be lead by 3 stars Generals next year? Thats awesome, is it going to be similar to how US put their marine corps? What interesting is how our Marine will report directly to Panglima and how KASAL role mainly do pembinaan. Really love this idea, now give them the tools they need mainly coastal defense things :D

Korps Marinir Akan Dipimpin Jenderal Bintang 3, Pengamat: Pembinaan Pasti Akan Berubah
I think US model can be copied to some extent, may or may not be separate branch but considering our geographical reality, upgunning and multiplying the Marines' strength is a must
 

Sycarion

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I'm surprised that there are people here who are surprised/annoyed that the US trusts Switzerland enough to offer them F-35s and not us. Switzerland has been a far more reliable partner for the US for a far longer time than us.

Does anyone seriously expect the US to entrust the F-35, their current top-of-the-line fighter, to us, while we are buying lots of russian and chinese weapons, being relatively friendly to Russia and China, and generally a far less reliable partner for the US compared to Switzerland? Hell, one of our top officials even went to China practically during Prabowo's US visit. Does that sound like "reliable partner" to you?

Trust is earned. Noone deserves to be trusted. If we want to earn their trust so that they are willing to allow us to buy the F-35 in a realistic timeframe, we have to earn their trust starting right now. If we continue to act like "the pretty girl being fought over by two studs", we will never get their top weapon systems.

Even the pretty girl will have to choose eventually. A pretty girl that refuses to choose will end up alone while the studs settle for other girls.
 

gondes

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Iver Huitfeldt vs 30FFM ; Indonesia with Ambitions to Build the Strongest Navy in Southeast Asia

20 November 2020


Danish frigate Iver Huitfeldt class (photo : Steve Jagger)

Indonesia is ambitious to focus investment to build the strongest naval force in Southeast Asia; recently, the archipelago country has spent $ 3 billion to buy 8 new generation frigates from Japan.
Currently, the Indonesian navy is considered to be the most powerful in Southeast Asia. However, the largest surface warship of the Indonesian Navy Sigma (Type 10514), the full load displacement is only about 2,300 tons, but the frigates of the naval forces of some Southeast Asian countries have reached 3,000 tons. It can be said that in terms of floating ships, Indonesia is currently far behind.
The Indonesian leaders, of course, are aware of this situation, so they have taken various measures to increase their strength; The Indonesian Navy has signed a contract to buy the Iver Huitfeldt class frigate from Denmark; This type of warships with a full load displacement of 6,645 tons, equipped with APAR four-sided scanning array radar, the purchase price of these two warships is 720 million USD.



Details of Iver Huitfeldt class (photo : NavalNews)
Not only interested in buying Danish warships, the Indonesian navy is also interested in the French frigate Gowind 2500. Although this 3,100-ton fully displacement warship is not "top of the line", its overall combat capabilities are not underestimated.
But while many people think the Indonesian Navy will choose warships have European roots, a competitor from Asia suddenly appeared, that frigates 30FFM of Japan, has been leading the Indonesian military approved take.
The 30FFM battleship was developed by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries of Japan. The standard displacement of this type of frigate is 3,900 tons, when fully loaded is 5,500 tons. Although compared with the French Gowind 2500, in terms of water stretch as well as combat ability, 30FFM are both higher; But compared to Iver Huitfeldt of Denmark, the 30FFM is no better in terms of combat strength, as well as range.



Iver Huitfeldt uses four diesel engines; The 30FFM uses a combination of a diesel engine and a gas turbine (CODAG). Although the two types of frigates had different propulsion systems, their top speeds were both 30 knots. But in terms of range, the distance of 6,000 nautical miles of the 30FFM is far less than 9,000 nautical miles of Iver Huitfeldt.
In terms of combat strength, Iver Huitfeldt also has many advantages, if the 30FFM is only equipped with the C-band OPY-1A active phase array radar (the simplified version of the FCS-3A). The main armament is the naval cannon Mk-45 127mm, 2 vertical launchers Mk-41 8 launch tubes and Type-17 anti-ship missile launchers.
The Iver Huitfeldt is equipped with a four-way APAR array radar system, the main weapon is 4 combinations of 8 Mk-41 vertical launch systems and 2 Mk-56 vertical launch systems consisting of 12 launch tubes / nest. well suited. Four anti-ship missile launchers Mk-141 Harpoon (one consists of four launch tubes).


Between the Japanese and Danish frigates, the displacement difference of more than 1,000 tons, so there is a large difference in such weapons and equipment; The main reason is because the Japanese 30FFM frigate is an anti-submarine version. So although sacrificing some air defense and anti-ship weapons, 30FFM owns the most advanced weapons systems, in anti-submarine warfare.

The 30FFM is equipped with a variable depth active sonar (VDS) and a drag array passive sonar (TASS). At the same time, the 30FFM is also equipped with unmanned water surface ships (USV), unmanned submarine vehicles (UUV) and self-propelled anti-mine munitions (EMD), to perform mine clearance missions.
In addition, the 30FFM also has an independent helicopter hangar, which can accommodate SH-60K helicopters. These advanced anti-submarine and anti-mine systems are indispensable for the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, whose primary mission is anti-submarine warfare and anti-mine action. However, it is a bit "luxury" for Indonesia.



So why is 30FFM still "noticed" and favored by the leaders of the Indonesian Army? The reasons were none other than the following three; First, the 30FFM has a displacement of 5,500 tons, the original anti-submarine warfare systems can also be dismantled, so it has enough space and payload to carry other anti-ship and anti-ship weapons systems that Indonesia needs.
Second is the low cost of 30FFM, according to the announcement, the price of two 30FFMs ordered by Japan was only 467 million USD, then reduced to about 441 million USD.
Although the Japanese 30FFM price is lower than the Iver Huitfeldt class of Denmark, but do not forget that, many details Iver Huitfeldt apply to civilian standards, so the cost of new construction has been reduced, but the quality cannot compare with 30FFM, fully warships apply.



Third is the most important reason, Japan has agreed to transfer some technology to Indonesia to build 30FFM frigates. In this way, Indonesia only needs to pay $ 3 billion to get 8 30FFM frigates, of which 4 are purchased complete and the remaining 4 are built in Indonesia. This is certainly a huge temptation for Indonesia.
It is certain that once there are eight 30FFM frigates, Indonesian naval might will lead the entire Southeast Asia region. Currently Japan is actively offering 30FFM, but it is not known whether Indonesia will decide to buy it or not?
But with the ambition of leading in Southeast Asia in the navy of the Indonesian leadership, as well as the effort to develop the defense industry of Japan, it is certain that the contract to purchase and sell the 30FFM frigates from Indonesia with Japan will be successful.
(KienThuc)
 

Nike

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Natuna had around 2000 kilometer square land area, they sure not as large as Hawaii but still 2000 kilometer square land area is big enough to supporting tens thousands troops, including Marines, Sailor, Air Force personel and Army and quite large to supporting major Naval and Air base. Interesting notes, Okinawa the most southern Imperial Japan fortress had the same area with Natuna and during WW II the Allies need to sacrifice 20,000 personnel and wounding more than 50,000 personnel to capture Okinawa. I am expect no less from Natuna if they want to put it as our Northernmost fortress
 

trishna_amṛta

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But while many people think the Indonesian Navy will choose warships have European roots,
To think of it Denmark isn't Europe. It's Scandinavian aka Viking

during WW II the Allies need to sacrifice 20,000 personnel and wounding more than 50,000 personnel to capture Okinawa
Unfortunately this is the 21st century. And unlike WW2, EW (of which we sorely lack of) along with saturated standoff weapons will play a major part in any engagement
 

Ravager

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Natuna had around 2000 kilometer square land area, they sure not as large as Hawaii but still 2000 kilometer square land area is big enough to supporting tens thousands troops, including Marines, Sailor, Air Force personel and Army and quite large to supporting major Naval and Air base. Interesting notes, Okinawa the most southern Imperial Japan fortress had the same area with Natuna and during WW II the Allies need to sacrifice 20,000 personnel and wounding more than 50,000 personnel to capture Okinawa. I am expect no less from Natuna if they want to put it as our Northernmost fortress
Past calculation comparison couldn't be drawn with today technology .
 

Gundala

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Sometime I wonder why is it our defence posture and strategic planning cant seem to go hand in hand. We even have problem following our own MEF and implementing it to the point that it would awakening our military capability to operate and secure our interest both domestic and international in conjunction of supporting our national interest in diplomacy both politics and economic. It all looks like tambal sulam at least to me. Having watch this video while (as usual) drinking coffee, eating gorengan and off course couple of ciggy, opened my eyes on what might be the root cause and how we could possibly engage in trying to find the strategic solution. After all finding the root of the real issues is the most important things before stepping up to find the right solution.

So grab a drink and enjoy this 30+ mints video :D

Rahakundini Class 019 Budaya Strategis dan Pandangan Geopolitik Soekarno bersama Hasto Kristiyanto

 

whatintarnation

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I know this is off-topic but in lieu of recent news, where do you guys think we'll host the 2022 G20 summit? Bandung? Jakarta?

I would love to hear all your opinions on this
 

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