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indigenous aircraft carrier Vikrant delivered to Navy

MH.Yang

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You are always a stickler for details just to put others down. Don't be like my grumpy old neighbor.
Let us rejoice in our achievement.
Yes, it's my fault. Congratulations to India.
We need to recognize that there are few countries in the world that can manufacture aircraft carriers.
 

Leishangthem

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How you wish you could secede and join the red dragon eh! Tough luck my NE neighbor, you and your descendants will remain the ever bitter citizens, regardless of all the *** kissing. Never truely happy and fulfilled. Hope you've studied the history of the region, all 6000 years of it.
You are mistaken ,I don't wish to join anything . We were never part of India or China in history, until 1950s.
 

hembo

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You are mistaken ,I don't wish to join anything . We were never part of India or China in history, until 1950s.
Nor were we till 1836.

And till 1950s?? A village parcel in the hilly kingdom?

Anyhow, all I can say is that, its better to stop reminiscing the past and start smelling the cookies and contribute positively for betterment of the society around ourselves. Swiming against the current is not always the better option. Bitter negativity only drags us down. When life gives you lemon and shitt eh! Wish you happiness my friend.
 

MH.Yang

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I think you need to brush up on reality and stop drinking that CPC koolaid.

Okya, then plz tell me which of the latest warships, such as 055, 052D, 054A and 004, 075, 076, use foreign parts?

Of course, the warship models before 052C need not be mentioned, and those early warship models have stopped construction. They do have some parts from abroad.
 

Leishangthem

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Nor were we till 1836.

And till 1950s?? A village parcel in the hilly kingdom?

Anyhow, all I can say is that, its better to stop reminiscing the past and start smelling the cookies and contribute positively for betterment of the society around ourselves. Swiming against the current is not always the better option. Bitter negativity only drags us down. When life gives you lemon and shitt eh! Wish you happiness my friend.
what 1836?
wth are u even going on about?
 

dbc

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Okya, then plz tell me which of the latest warships, such as 055, 052D, 054A and 004, 075, 076, use foreign parts?

Of course, the warship models before 052C need not be mentioned, and those early warship models have stopped construction. They do have some parts from abroad.

do I look like I care enough to keep an inventory of what goes into Chinese ships? I do know China has access to dual use technology. Just because a ship is built in a Chinese ship yard doesn't mean it's fully indigenous. Of course the opposite is also true, but based on what I know about 'made in china' commercial ships and Chinese defense exports I can assume there is some foreign content.
 

Lava820

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Okya, then plz tell me which of the latest warships, such as 055, 052D, 054A and 004, 075, 076, use foreign parts?

Of course, the warship models before 052C need not be mentioned, and those early warship models have stopped construction. They do have some parts from abroad.
Type 052D destroyers are equipped with a combined diesel or gas (CODOG) propulsion system integrating two QC-280 gas turbines and two MTU 20V 956TB92 diesel engines.

 

MH.Yang

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do I look like I care enough to keep an inventory of what goes into Chinese ships? I do know China has access to dual use technology. Just because a ship is built in a Chinese ship yard doesn't mean it's fully indigenous. Of course the opposite is also true, but based on what I know about 'made in china' commercial ships and Chinese defense exports I can assume there is some foreign content.
Type 052D destroyers are equipped with a combined diesel or gas (CODOG) propulsion system integrating two QC-280 gas turbines and two MTU 20V 956TB92 diesel engines.

OK. Let me take it as an example.

Among China's warships in active service, there are nine warships of the six models 051B, 051C, 052, 052B, 053H and 054. They do have a large number of technologies and components from Russia and Western countries. However, these nine warships were all commissioned before 2004 and are ready to be sold or retired. Their models have all been discontinued long ago.

Starting from 052C, all warship models, including 002, 003, 004, 055, 052C, 052D, 054A, 075, 076, 071, 072A and other latest models of warships, all use Chinese made parts.

However, the type 056 light frigates exported from China to Bangladesh, Thailand, Egypt, Nigeria, Albania and other countries use the 16PA6V280 civil diesel engine produced by China shanchai Heavy Industry Co., Ltd. authorized by French SEMT PIELSTICK. And the 056 of the Chinese Navy uses Chinese made military engines.

The German media also said that the 052C/D used MTU's diesel engines, which is also wrong. The gas turbine used in the 052C/D came from China and copied the DA80 from Ukraine. However, 052 and 052B do use MTU-20 v956tb92 diesel engines, but these two destroyers will be retired soon.





As for 052D, it uses Chinese made GT-25000 gas turbine. The news in the German media is wrong.
When China provides 052D to the Nigerian military, Nigerians are allowed to choose to use GT-25000 or MTU-20 v956tb92.
In fact, MTU-20 v956tb92 was only used in China's early 052B warships, which belonged to a lower class.


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MH.Yang

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GT-25000 is the license produced DA80 gas turbine from Ukraine.

Yes, the technology of GT-25000 originally came from the DA80 gas turbine technology sold in Ukraine.

But now the performance of GT-25000 is much better than DA80. We should regard GT-25000 as an upgraded version of DA80.
 
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dbc

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Yes, the technology of GT-25000 originally came from the DA80 gas turbine technology sold in Ukraine.

But now the performance of GT-25000 is much better than DA80. We should regard GT-25000 as an upgraded version of DA80.

While the performance of Germany's MTU-20 v956tb92 is weaker than that of GT-25000&DA80, which is a cheaper option for China to provide customers when exporting warships. The Chinese Navy's warships do not use MTU-20 v956tb92.

The Indians make an improved version of the AL-31 FP engine in India but that doesn't make it an Indian engine. Also why are you comparing a diesel engine MTU-20 v956tb92 with a gas turbine?
 

MH.Yang

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The Indians make an improved version of the AL-31 FP engine in India but that doesn't make it an Indian engine. Also why are you comparing a diesel engine MTU-20 v956tb92 with a gas turbine?
China's factories manufacture GT-25000 independently and do not depend on any country. And China has purchased all the technology use rights of DA80. Moreover, the technology has been greatly upgraded. No country can prevent China from manufacturing and exporting GT-25000.

If you also classify the GT-25000 as a foreign part, then this is too harsh. Then the technology of HHQ9 of 052D also comes from S300 of Russia. Should this also be classified as a foreign component? According to your standard, which country in the world can make all warships without foreign parts?
 

applesauce

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The Indians make an improved version of the AL-31 FP engine in India but that doesn't make it an Indian engine. Also why are you comparing a diesel engine MTU-20 v956tb92 with a gas turbine?
you're nitpicking too much.
by your standards, we might as well say the us depends on china for the f-22 and f-35 since those contain chinese parts such as bolts , screws, naked PCBs and such.
fact is, if china was warped into a universe by itself it would still be able to continue making something like the 052D. this would be completely untrue for india and the al-31.
 

dbc

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China's factories manufacture GT-25000 independently and do not depend on any country. And China has purchased all the technology use rights of DA80. Moreover, the technology has been greatly upgraded. No country can prevent China from manufacturing and exporting GT-25000.

If you also classify the GT-25000 as a foreign part, then this is too harsh. Then the technology of HHQ9 of 052D also comes from S300 of Russia. Should this also be classified as a foreign component? According to your standard, which country in the world can make all warships without foreign parts?

it all depends on the license agreement. The Indians can't export the AL31 FP or locally made Su30 MKI. Neither can the Chinese, the J-11 or anything derived from the Su-27 is poisoned fruit as well. Ditto the Z-20, since it's a copy of the Blackhawk. As for the GT-25000, it depends on the license agreement. If Zorya-Mashproekt signed an unrestricted license agreement handing over the IP, with unrestricted rights to China then you are correct- i'd then consider the GT-25000 Chinese. However, neither of us have access to the signed contract to prove or disprove the other. It is possible that Zorya-Mashproekt have approved export of the turbine in exchange for revenue share, so the export of the turbine does not prove IP ownership.

you're nitpicking too much.
by your standards, we might as well say the us depends on china for the f-22 and f-35 since those contain chinese parts such as bolts , screws, naked PCBs and such.
fact is, if china was warped into a universe by itself it would still be able to continue making something like the 052D. this would be completely untrue for india and the al-31.

not really, the turbine is a critical component. PCBs and bolts on the other hand are not and can be alternatively sourced.
 

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