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India's friction with US rises over planned purchase of Russian S-400 defence systems Trump administration urging New Delhi to drop $5.5 billion deal

akshay gehlot

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That is not what Reauters is saying, and they are usually very accurate.
Reuters aren't "saying" anything .. Its a quote from a guy at a think tank who is saying sanctions may happen , Plenty of others who think the opposite as well

The difference between recent Democrats and Repubs in their attitude towards Indian geopolitical situation is that Republicans will openly support better relations with India while Democrats do it in the background while their leaders offer Politically correct soundbites and try to appease the libs .

I'm sure the Biden administration will make more statements about India,Kashmir,Modi etc , give way to more such articles resulting in more fun threads for PDF to enjoy , more appearences of diplomatic tension , while in the background the FMS sales and deals will keep happening . Look at how many deals happened under Obama for ex.

Besides India keeps its options open , If US wants to refuse to sell then there's always the French,Russians,Israelis or better yet indigineous equipment . US and NATO sanctions on nuclear and space tech made India self sustained in both those fields , Maybe these will provide a similar kick up the backside to increase indigenous content
 

masterchief_mirza

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Our focus must be the Indo-Pacific region, and it is in our interest in having a strong India, both militarily and economically, to challenge China
Translation:

"America's focus must be the Indo-Pacific region, and it is a gamble for America to strengthen our nation of whingeing tech support workers, to challenge China".
Yep its a matter of time and India will most likely get a pass, which might come for Turkey as well eventually. Also, India could get the US options for AD missiles instead of S400, which will be just as bad for Pakistan as an alternative.
I think you're correct in this analysis. The flip side is of course that Russia will be angered at Indian manipulations. Pakistan should speak to Moscow more often about these concerns.
 

waz

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Bidden is very anti Russian, he hails from the Cold War days.... The manoeuvring for any waiver is micro thin if any.
 

Yasser76

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Reuters aren't "saying" anything .. Its a quote from a guy at a think tank who is saying sanctions may happen , Plenty of others who think the opposite as well

The difference between recent Democrats and Repubs in their attitude towards Indian geopolitical situation is that Republicans will openly support better relations with India while Democrats do it in the background while their leaders offer Politically correct soundbites and try to appease the libs .

I'm sure the Biden administration will make more statements about India,Kashmir,Modi etc , give way to more such articles resulting in more fun threads for PDF to enjoy , more appearences of diplomatic tension , while in the background the FMS sales and deals will keep happening . Look at how many deals happened under Obama for ex.

Besides India keeps its options open , If US wants to refuse to sell then there's always the French,Russians,Israelis or better yet indigineous equipment . US and NATO sanctions on nuclear and space tech made India self sustained in both those fields , Maybe these will provide a similar kick up the backside to increase indigenous content
US embassy

" “We urge all of our allies and partners to forgo transactions with Russia that risk triggering sanctions under the CAATSA. CAATSA does not have any blanket or country-specific waiver provision.”

Let me know if you have trouble translating that.
US embassy

" “We urge all of our allies and partners to forgo transactions with Russia that risk triggering sanctions under the CAATSA. CAATSA does not have any blanket or country-specific waiver provision.”

Let me know if you have trouble translating that.
If US refuse to sell say bye bye to

LCA engine
Predator drones
spares for P-8, C-130J, C-17, Apaches and Chinook.

Basically much of India's top of the line equipment may become inoperable within a year.
 

Trango Towers

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" “We urge all of our allies and partners to forgo transactions with Russia that risk triggering sanctions under the CAATSA. CAATSA does not have any blanket or country-specific waiver provision.”

Let me know if you have trouble translating that.


If US refuse to sell say bye bye to

LCA engine
Predator drones
spares for P-8, C-130J, C-17, Apaches and Chinook.

Basically much of India's top of the line equipment may become inoperable within a year.
All hail their white god. Trump
 

The Maverick

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US embassy

" “We urge all of our allies and partners to forgo transactions with Russia that risk triggering sanctions under the CAATSA. CAATSA does not have any blanket or country-specific waiver provision.”

Let me know if you have trouble translating that.


If US refuse to sell say bye bye to

LCA engine
Predator drones
spares for P-8, C-130J, C-17, Apaches and Chinook.

Basically much of India's top of the line equipment may become inoperable within a year.

you really are desperate.
at least you acknowledge the Indians have top line equipment
remember
India will.continue to play Massive role in indo Pacific with billion s more dollars on usa,equipment and get the partial.waiver on s400
you heard it here first from me
politics is a dirty game
don't believe all.you read
lots of wink wink back door stuff happens
 

nahtanbob

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" “We urge all of our allies and partners to forgo transactions with Russia that risk triggering sanctions under the CAATSA. CAATSA does not have any blanket or country-specific waiver provision.”

Let me know if you have trouble translating that.


If US refuse to sell say bye bye to

LCA engine
Predator drones
spares for P-8, C-130J, C-17, Apaches and Chinook.

Basically much of India's top of the line equipment may become inoperable within a year.
Chances of that happening are zero
 

akshay gehlot

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US embassy

" “We urge all of our allies and partners to forgo transactions with Russia that risk triggering sanctions under the CAATSA. CAATSA does not have any blanket or country-specific waiver provision.”

Let me know if you have trouble translating that.


If US refuse to sell say bye bye to

LCA engine
Predator drones
spares for P-8, C-130J, C-17, Apaches and Chinook.

Basically much of India's top of the line equipment may become inoperable within a year.

Its amazing how someone can't figure out the difference between what politicians/governments say and what actually goes on .
Read my previous statement carefully

"
Democrats do it in the background while their leaders offer Politically correct soundbites and try to appease the libs .I'm sure the Biden administration will make more statements about India,Kashmir,Modi etc , give way to more such articles resulting in more fun threads for PDF to enjoy , more appearences of diplomatic tension , while in the background the FMS sales and deals will keep happening
"
What the US embassy or think tanks or democratic leaders or senators "say " doesn't matter , That party's modern policy is based on saying liberal stuff while ruling conservatively and appeasing Wall St and MIC
They will make a 100 more such statements in public and lead to 100 more such articles but the reality won't change .

A country as self serving America will not give up 20 Billion + in near future military sales and lose the biggest counter to Chinese expansion in IOR just so they can feel satisfied about staying true to CAATSA

As for India's equipment being "inoperable " well 85 % of Indian Armed Forces equipment is based on Russian designs with most of it including the frontline tanks,jets,destroyers,frigates,rifles etc etc being produced in India so yeah ..Not really the dagger to the heart you think it'll be .

There are already negotiations going on with Safran and Rolls Royce about engine deals and production so that one big choke point (GE 404) may soon have alternatives as well ,
 

Trango Towers

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Its amazing how someone can't figure out the difference between what politicians/governments say and what actually goes on .
Read my previous statement carefully

"
Democrats do it in the background while their leaders offer Politically correct soundbites and try to appease the libs .I'm sure the Biden administration will make more statements about India,Kashmir,Modi etc , give way to more such articles resulting in more fun threads for PDF to enjoy , more appearences of diplomatic tension , while in the background the FMS sales and deals will keep happening
"
What the US embassy or think tanks or democratic leaders or senators "say " doesn't matter , That party's modern policy is based on saying liberal stuff while ruling conservatively and appeasing Wall St and MIC
They will make a 100 more such statements in public and lead to 100 more such articles but the reality won't change .

A country as self serving America will not give up 20 Billion + in near future military sales and lose the biggest counter to Chinese expansion in IOR just so they can feel satisfied about staying true to CAATSA

As for India's equipment being "inoperable " well 85 % of Indian Armed Forces equipment is based on Russian designs with most of it including the frontline tanks,jets,destroyers,frigates,rifles etc etc being produced in India so yeah ..Not really the dagger to the heart you think it'll be .

There are already negotiations going on with Safran and Rolls Royce about engine deals and production so that one big choke point (GE 404) may soon have alternatives as well ,
Did you figure out that pulwana was done by your government to get your votes.??? 40 dead men and you blamed Pakistan when modi killed your own soldiers. Amazing isn't it how you Indians talk shit
 

Yasser76

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you really are desperate.
at least you acknowledge the Indians have top line equipment
remember
India will.continue to play Massive role in indo Pacific with billion s more dollars on usa,equipment and get the partial.waiver on s400
you heard it here first from me
politics is a dirty game
don't believe all.you read
lots of wink wink back door stuff happens
I know, sorry, silly me, believing Reuters and US Embassy instead of an anonymous Indian internet troll. :sarcastic:
Its amazing how someone can't figure out the difference between what politicians/governments say and what actually goes on .
Read my previous statement carefully

"
Democrats do it in the background while their leaders offer Politically correct soundbites and try to appease the libs .I'm sure the Biden administration will make more statements about India,Kashmir,Modi etc , give way to more such articles resulting in more fun threads for PDF to enjoy , more appearences of diplomatic tension , while in the background the FMS sales and deals will keep happening
"
What the US embassy or think tanks or democratic leaders or senators "say " doesn't matter , That party's modern policy is based on saying liberal stuff while ruling conservatively and appeasing Wall St and MIC
They will make a 100 more such statements in public and lead to 100 more such articles but the reality won't change .

A country as self serving America will not give up 20 Billion + in near future military sales and lose the biggest counter to Chinese expansion in IOR just so they can feel satisfied about staying true to CAATSA

As for India's equipment being "inoperable " well 85 % of Indian Armed Forces equipment is based on Russian designs with most of it including the frontline tanks,jets,destroyers,frigates,rifles etc etc being produced in India so yeah ..Not really the dagger to the heart you think it'll be .

There are already negotiations going on with Safran and Rolls Royce about engine deals and production so that one big choke point (GE 404) may soon have alternatives as well ,
Bad news is hurting huh? Please do not bring your double standards here, if this had been positive news about India or negative news about Pakistan you would happily accepted it blindly. The fact is now alternatives to GE404 are being looked at (as you admit) completly contradicts the rest of your post
Chances of that happening are zero
So Reuters do not know what they are reporting and you do? I will stick with them, you live in your own fantasy world
 

The Maverick

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I know, sorry, silly me, believing Reuters and US Embassy instead of an anonymous Indian internet troll. :sarcastic:


Bad news is hurting huh? Please do not bring your double standards here, if this had been positive news about India or negative news about Pakistan you would happily accepted it blindly. The fact is now alternatives to GE404 are being looked at (as you admit) completly contradicts the rest of your post


So Reuters do not know what they are reporting and you do? I will stick with them, you live in your own fantasy world
wrong we are not looking at alternatives to Ge404.
we have stockpiled hundreds of engines already .
india is looking at dassult or rolls Royce to help develop a indengious engine for future fighters ie
Amca and yes alternatives.
it has to be indian
just like we are introducing uttam aesa radars,from 2025 onwards to power all future indian indengious fighters elta 2052 will be only on mark1a.
just like Astra bvr 1 2 and 3 will become the main bvr in indian Arsenal in yeara to come.
these things take time
just,like our navy rely on 80 percent indian built warships so will our air Force in future they just started,later then navy
 

Yasser76

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wrong we are not looking at alternatives to Ge404.
we have stockpiled hundreds of engines already .
india is looking at dassult or rolls Royce to help develop a indengious engine for future fighters ie
Amca and yes alternatives.
it has to be indian
just like we are introducing uttam aesa radars,from 2025 onwards to power all future indian indengious fighters elta 2052 will be only on mark1a.
just like Astra bvr 1 2 and 3 will become the main bvr in indian Arsenal in yeara to come.
these things take time
just,like our navy rely on 80 percent indian built warships so will our air Force in future they just started,later then navy
Sanctions coming, get ready.

There is no massive GE404 stockpile. Already on another thread I exposed your lies about 6 Thunder crashes (which you still did not reply to and quietly ran away), now I can expose more lies.

Days fun has started....
 

vi-va

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Why Is the US Saying India Could Face Sanctions for Buying Russian S-400 Missile Systems?

Washington has repeatedly said India is unlikely to get a waiver under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act.
Why Is the US Saying India Could Face Sanctions for Buying Russian S-400 Missile Systems?

An S-400 Triumf launch vehicle. Photo: Wikimedia Commons
New Delhi: The US has yet again warned India that it could face sanctions over it acquiring five Russian Almaz-Antei S-400 Triumf self-propelled surface-to-air (SAM) systems for $5.5 billion.
Senior US officials told Reuters on January 15 that New Delhi was unlikely to get a waiver over Washington invoking its Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) on the Indian Air Force (IAF) for its S-400 buy. Reuters reported that this position was unlikely to change under the incoming US administration headed by President Joe Biden that assumed office on Tuesday.
“We urge all of our allies and partners to forego transactions with Russia that risk triggering sanctions under CAATSA,” Reuters quoted a US embassy spokesman in Delhi as saying. CAATSA, the official added, does not have any blanket or country-specific waiver provision. Approved in July 2017, CAATSA is Washington’s response to Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014 and its alleged interference in the US presidential elections two years later, in 2016.
In his recent farewell address, the returning US ambassador to Delhi Kenneth Juster too warned India that Washington could invoke CAATSA against it for buying the S-400. Speaking in parables, Juster stated that India will have to make certain ‘choices’ on its overall approach on acquiring military hardware, but mystifyingly added that CAATSA sanctions were never designed to harm friends and allies, of which Delhi was undoubtedly one.
“As systems get more technologically advanced, country A (Russia) that does not get along with country B (the US) will be less willing to sell technology that could potentially be compromising to country B,” he said, highlighting concerns that the S-400 could gather electronic signatures of US-origin aircraft which India’s military operates. These include C-17 and C-130J-30 transport aircraft and AH-64E Apache attack and CH-47F Chinook heavy-lift helicopters, for now.
Sheathing the US’s mailed fist in a velvet glove, Juster went on to state that India “has to decide how much it wants to diversify its sources of (materiel) procurement”.
In short, the US ambassador was cautioning the IAF over taking delivery of the S-400s, the deal for which was signed in October 2018 and for which around $800 million has already been routed to Moscow, via convoluted banking channels. The S-400 deliveries, for their part, are scheduled to begin by the year-end and be completed three years later.
Why India chose the S-400
So far, the US has imposed CAATSA on Turkey and China for taking delivery of two S-400 systems each, as Almaz-Antey is included in the list of 39 Russian defence entities sanctioned by Washington. As part of the sanctions, the US removed Turkey, a NATO ally, from the F-35 joint strike fighter (JSF) programme in July 2019, stating at the time that Ankara’s decision to purchase the S-400s renders its continued involvement with the JSF untenable. A White House statement declared that the F-35 cannot coexist with a Russian intelligence collection platform, as that can be used to learn about its advanced capabilities.
Also read: The Deadly Alphabet Soup That Is India’s Defence Acquisition Procedure
But do the US’s incipient sanction warnings to Delhi stem from an operational decision to protect its advanced platforms from being technically snooped upon by the S-400 or do they have a wider goal to penalise Moscow for its wrongdoings? Or do these threats emanate simply from Washington’s pique over the IAF opting for the S-400 instead of rival systems like Lockheed Martin’s Patriot Advanced Capability-3 or PAC-3 or the analogous Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) systems?
Both US air defence systems were tentatively on offer to the IAF a decade or so ago, but after due operational diligence India opted for the Russian S-400, believing it to be more efficient, cheaper and above all, acquirable from a long-standing materiel supplier, that entail no political strings or strategic obligations. Conversely, all defence purchases from the US are governed by a slew of inflexible protocols signed by Delhi and Washington over the past decade.
“The S-400 system is operationally more versatile, accurate and multi-faceted in all aspects compared to its US rivals,” said military analyst Air Marshal V.K. ‘Jimmy’ Bhatia (retired). The IAF, he added, was right to go for the S-400 despite CAATSA’s looming shadow, which now needs to be resolved before the IAF commissions the air defence system.
A successor to the S-200 and S-300 air defence systems, the S-400 integrates the 91N6E multi-function panoramic radar with a 600 km range, autonomous detection and targeting systems and launchers. It can fire four missile types with strike ranges of between 400 km and 40 km to provide multi-layered defence against incoming fixed wing and rotary aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and ballistic missiles at altitudes of up to 30 km.
The S-400 is organised around the 30K6E administration system, with protection against jamming. It can simultaneously locate 72 targets and track another 160 alongside, compared with PAC-3s 36 and 125 respectively. The former can destroy a target at 400 km with its recently tested 40N6 missile, while the PAC-3 can locate – and destroy – an aircraft at 180 km and missile at 100 km with its missile complement.
The deployment time for S-400s is five minutes, whilst that for the PAC-3 is significantly higher, at around 25 minutes. The Russian air defence system can also down targets as low as 10 m and as high as 30 km, while the corresponding ranges for the PAC-3 system are 50 m and 25 km, respectively.
Also read: In 2021, India’s Military Faces Myriad Challenges
The THAAD system, on the other hand, is one of the unrivalled missile defence systems that can hit targets at altitudes of 45-50 km. But this extended strike capability renders it relatively ineffective against incoming aircraft.
But unlike the PAC-3 system and its earlier variants that are employed – other than the US – by the air forces of Germany, Israel, Japan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Spain amongst several others, the S-400 remains operationally untested. It was employed in Syria but remained unused, though some reports indicate that it was responsible for keeping US and Israeli aircraft at bay. It is also believed capable of tracking the low radar signature of F-35s and China’s J-20 advanced fighters, but the S-400’s overall effectivity in this regard remains unproven.
US ignoring India’s other Russian orders
It is surprising that US officials are only referring to India’s acquisition of the S-400s and ignoring a raft of other equipment that Delhi is acquiring from Moscow. This includes procuring four Admiral Grigorovich-class stealth frigates and leasing a second Project 971 ‘Akula’-class nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) for the Indian Navy for 10 years.
India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) is also in advanced negotiations for the licensed production of 750,000 Kalashnikov AK-203 assault rifles by India’s state-owned Ordnance Factory Board and the acquisition of 200 Kamov Ka-226T ‘Hoodlum’ light multi-role helicopters by a joint venture led by the public sector Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). It is also in talks to acquire 21 more MiG-29 fighters and Sukhoi Su-30MKI multi-role combat aircraft.
Technically, all these are potentially sanctionable under CAATSA, but surprisingly only the S-400 is being targeted.
Meanwhile, senior military officials in Delhi said that in anticipation of Washington’s pique and displeasure over acquiring the S-400, the MoD, in July 2018 approved the $1 billion import from the US of Raytheon’s National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System-2 (NASAMS-2) for the IAF to fortify the country’s missile defence shield over Delhi.
The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) headed by then defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman ‘quietly’ cleared the procurement of an upgraded version of the Kongsberg NASAMS-2 via the US’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route as part of the government’s Delhi Area Defence Plan against attacks by enemy aircraft, missiles and UAVs. Military sources said the NASMAS-2 was being acquired to eventually supplement the long delayed indigenous two-tier ballistic missile defence (BMD) shield that is in an advanced stage of development by the government-run Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
The DRDO had claimed in 2011 that the BMD shield would be in place over Delhi and Mumbai by 2014; but the system is still undergoing periodic testing to validate its capability to track and destroy incoming hostile aerial targets inside (endo) and outside (exo) the earth’s atmosphere.
Also read: India’s 2021-22 Defence Budget Needs Honest Financial Reckoning, Not Empty Rhetoric
A NASAMS-2 battery consists of 12 missile launchers, each one carrying six AIM-120 advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles and eight AN/MPQ-64 Sentinel X-band 3D radar. One fire control centre and an electro-optical camera vehicle and tactical control cell vehicle each, complete the air defence missile system. According to one senior military officer, by clearing the NASAMS-2 air defence system procurement, Delhi was offering the US a ‘lollipop’ for potentially waiving CAATSA over the S-400. But, so far, it does not appear to have worked.
“The manner and extent of CAATSA are unknown, as are its implications on the bilateral defence trade between Delhi and Washington that has been the mainstay of their relationship,” said Amit Cowshish, former MoD acquisition advisor. If imposed, CAATSA could end up harming both countries, without serving the intended purpose of punishing Russia, he added.
Since 2002, India has acquired around $20 billion worth of US military equipment and another $5-6 billion is under purchase or negotiation. Washington, it seems, wants even more custom from India; or it sanctions.

 

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