What's new

India’s F-16 Neurosis

PurAzamBaHadaf

FULL MEMBER
Mar 2, 2019
349
0
580
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
ISPR first claimed that they had shot down two jets and had two pilots in custody and a pilot dead. Then they said rhey they had only one pilot and the other two crashed in indian territory. Either you have the other pilot or you don't, but DG ISPR did change its statement.
India mever did

FP story was based on sources and not on actual statements.
DG ISPR actually never changed the statement. The confusion resulted in the fact that he said NO F16 was used in the OPERATION against INDIA and that is still true. F16s were on CAP and never intruded Indians Air Space. Therefore, your IAF lied about F16s crossing into Indian territory.

Secondly, you displayed a piece of AMRAAM which was obviously fired by a Pak F16 and is CLEARLY is blown up implying it SUCCESSFULLY HIT its target. Now that target can't be Abhis Mig21 because it fell in Azad Kashmir so the second plane was shot down and wreckage fell in IoK? Thus, the onus is on you to prove that you didn't lose any jet.

Also, as we are on the statement that India never changed statement, FIRST India claimed they had "all personnel accounted for" but after PAF displayed pictures of Abhi, they changed their statement to "we have lost one jet and a pilot. We are ascertaining the facts". Tell me now, who changed their statements?

Lastly, FP story was written by a PENTAGON correspondent who has a lot more credibility than the Hindustan Times. Therefore, I do believe her.

Awaiting your response to ALL my points - Not just one
 

Taimur Khurram

ELITE MEMBER
Sep 15, 2015
8,828
9
9,367
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
https://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/17/world/india-buries-soldiers-that-pakistan-won-t-claim.html

For the case of US, korea has refused to hand over the bodies, not the other way round.
Yours was the first case where anyone had refused their own soldier's bodies
That's not sufficient proof, if you have the bodies, give a complete list of the names of these soldiers and other information on their dog-tags. Saying "hurr durr we found em and buried em" isn't proof.

Secondly, no, this has happened before. Pakistan is no exception. It's not at all uncommon for military's to not account for some casualties.

And as an Indian, I don't think you're in a position to criticise others for having a military that is non-transparent:

 

SIPRA

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 31, 2019
7,681
4
12,912
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
DG ISPR actually never changed the statement. The confusion resulted in the fact that he said NO F16 was used in the OPERATION against INDIA and that is still true. F16s were on CAP and never intruded Indians Air Space. Therefore, your IAF lied about F16s crossing into Indian territory.

Secondly, you displayed a piece of AMRAAM which was obviously fired by a Pak F16 and is CLEARLY is blown up implying it SUCCESSFULLY HIT its target. Now that target can't be Abhis Mig21 because it fell in Azad Kashmir so the second plane was shot down and wreckage fell in IoK? Thus, the onus is on you to prove that you didn't lose any jet.

Also, as we are on the statement that India never changed statement, FIRST India claimed they had "all personnel accounted for" but after PAF displayed pictures of Abhi, they changed their statement to "we have lost one jet and a pilot. We are ascertaining the facts". Tell me now, who changed their statements?

Lastly, FP story was written by a PENTAGON correspondent who has a lot more credibility than the Hindustan Times. Therefore, I do believe her.

Awaiting your response to ALL my points - Not just one
We must admit that the issue of downing of the second IAF jet and the fate of its pilot(s) is far from clear, at the moment, and our DG(ISPR) has successfully evaded and clouded these questions. If you recall the DG(ISPR) press briefing, on 27.02.2019 (1243 to 1257 PST), you would note three things: 1) He, at the start, promised to show some video evidence of the strikes; but did't. 2) He said that 1 pilot was in custody and 1 admitted in hospital; but within a few hours afterward tweeted, that only 1 pilot is captured, without any mention of the second pilot. Though, after a few days, in a program with Kamran Khan, he said that the other pilot is dead, without again elaborating. 3) I have a feeling that originally the press briefing was not to be as short (14 minutes), as it tuned out to be and it was terminated abruptly, on receiving some message, from higher quarters.

My conjecture is as follows:

1) Something significant happened, in the background, during the press briefing; otherwise a lot would have come out in that briefing, had it not been curtailed.
2) SU-30MKI is the other IAF jet, that was shot on that day.
3) Pakistan has been asked by Russia to conceal it and Pakistan is obliging, possibly for a great number of things, which are going on between the two countries.
4) The issue of the second pilot is also clouded, since it is intimately connected with the second aircraft.

One key question remains, that if a second IAF craft has been downed and its wreckage, according to Pakistan, has fallen in IOK; how come India has been able to successfully conceal it.
 

PurAzamBaHadaf

FULL MEMBER
Mar 2, 2019
349
0
580
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
We must admit that the issue of downing of the second IAF jet and the fate of its pilot(s) is far from clear, at the moment, and our DG(ISPR) has successfully evaded and clouded these questions. If you recall the DG(ISPR) press briefing, on 27.02.2019 (1243 to 1257 PST), you would note three things: 1) He, at the start, promised to show some video evidence of the strikes; but did't. 2) He said that 1 pilot was in custody and 1 admitted in hospital; but within a few hours afterward tweeted, that only 1 pilot is captured, without any mention of the second pilot. Though, after a few days, in a program with Kamran Khan, he said that the other pilot is dead, without again elaborating. 3) I have a feeling that originally the press briefing was not to be as short (14 minutes), as it tuned out to be and it was terminated abruptly, on receiving some message, from higher quarters.

My conjecture is as follows:

1) Something significant happened, in the background, during the press briefing; otherwise a lot would have come out in that briefing, had it not been curtailed.
2) SU-30MKI is the other IAF jet, that was shot on that day.
3) Pakistan has been asked by Russia to conceal it and Pakistan is obliging, possibly for a great number of things, which are going on between the two countries.
4) The issue of the second pilot is also clouded, since it is intimately connected with the second aircraft.

One key question remains, that if a second IAF craft has been downed and its wreckage, according to Pakistan, has fallen in IOK; how come India has been able to successfully conceal it.
I don't agree. We might as well keep quiet about the second IAF jet for now. Pakistan cannot afford any escalation. If the jet is Su30, then we might as well not release the information since Pak has been developing its ties with Russia and this will result in a major setback.
As far as the second pilot goes, I have heard from credible sources within the Army that there was an Israeli pilot captured. Now, IF this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised given how the Mullahs and Muftis would wage war against Israel and it would cause massive unrest within the country. Also, my sources believe Pak got a lot of things in return from US and Israel and only time will tell what exactly happened regarding this.
As you mention, something did happen during the press-briefing because they must've found out the reality of the 2nd pilot. Again, there's a lot of confusion around this and I guess we just have to wait.

Again, looking at the entire narrative given by both countries, I am inclined towards ISPR since it fits what the entire world can see whereas IAF is claiming stuff with no actual proof apart from the shoddy images of AWAC which can easily be doctored or taken at times where F16 went off-radar and they're claiming a "kill".
 

SIPRA

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 31, 2019
7,681
4
12,912
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I don't agree. We might as well keep quiet about the second IAF jet for now. Pakistan cannot afford any escalation. If the jet is Su30, then we might as well not release the information since Pak has been developing its ties with Russia and this will result in a major setback.
As far as the second pilot goes, I have heard from credible sources within the Army that there was an Israeli pilot captured. Now, IF this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised given how the Mullahs and Muftis would wage war against Israel and it would cause massive unrest within the country. Also, my sources believe Pak got a lot of things in return from US and Israel and only time will tell what exactly happened regarding this.
As you mention, something did happen during the press-briefing because they must've found out the reality of the 2nd pilot. Again, there's a lot of confusion around this and I guess we just have to wait.

Again, looking at the entire narrative given by both countries, I am inclined towards ISPR since it fits what the entire world can see whereas IAF is claiming stuff with no actual proof apart from the shoddy images of AWAC which can easily be doctored or taken at times where F16 went off-radar and they're claiming a "kill".
You are right. I agree with all, what you have said, except for the Israeli pilot theory.
 

PurAzamBaHadaf

FULL MEMBER
Mar 2, 2019
349
0
580
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
You are right. I agree with all, what you have said, except for the Israeli pilot theory.
Like I said, it is from sources within the Army and one of the people works very closely with ISPR. However, whatever the case, I am sure more evidence will be released by DG ISPR.
 

SIPRA

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 31, 2019
7,681
4
12,912
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Like I said, it is from sources within the Army and one of the people works very closely with ISPR. However, whatever the case, I am sure more evidence will be released by DG ISPR.
I, in fact, just made a conjecture, based upon the available information. Otherwise, I think that, in any case, what is to be revealed and what to be concealed, shall be left to the decision makers in our armed forces; since they are the best judge, in this regard.
 

ColonelSanders

FULL MEMBER
Mar 29, 2019
527
0
788
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
I have a solution for all this propaganda spread by indians. Whenever they say something out of their a****, instead of starting an argument, just say...

Cry more ....
 

Ghessan

FULL MEMBER
Feb 28, 2018
933
0
915
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Your post in this thread India's F-16 Neurosis was deleted Reason: Post of No-value/Derailing/Trolling

i wish the moderator could understand what i was trying to say which the other guy was
deliberately not spitting out. Post 77 has all in it.
thanks you.
 

The Eagle

SENIOR MODERATOR
Oct 15, 2015
21,123
173
39,288
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Your post in this thread India's F-16 Neurosis was deleted Reason: Post of No-value/Derailing/Trolling

i wish the moderator could understand what i was trying to say which the other guy was
deliberately not spitting out. Post 77 has all in it.
thanks you.
No need to feed the trolls and provide them a lifeline to troll more. You have got the message in combined deletion, though.
 

Ghessan

FULL MEMBER
Feb 28, 2018
933
0
915
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
No need to feed the trolls and provide them a lifeline to troll more. You have got the message in combined deletion, though.
agree to you and thanks, besides i hope you too did agree when it comes to Pakistan.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom