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IndianTroops Despise Their Assault Rifle Soldiers would prefer AKs to this piece of junk

Maarkhoor

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by ROBERT BECKHUSEN

In 1999, the Indian Army fought a three-month-long undeclared war with Pakistan. It was also the combat debut of India’s new Insas battle rifle.

The Insas is a very bad rifle.

During the conflict—waged over the disputed and mountainous Kargil district in the province of Kashmir—the Indian troops’ rifles jammed up, and their cheap, 20-round plastic magazines cracked in the cold weather.

To make a terrible weapon worse, the Insas had a habit ofspraying oil directly onto the handler’s face and eyes.
Designed to shoot in semi-automatic and three-round burst modes, some soldiers would pull the trigger, and the gun would unexpectedly spray rounds like a fully automatic.

Soldiers also preferred the heavier 7.62-millimeter rounds in the FAL rifle, which the Insas and its 5.56-millimeter rounds replaced.

Then in 2005, Maoist rebels attacked a Nepalese army base. The Nepalese troops had Insas rifles bought from India. During the 10-hour-long battle, the rifles overheated and stopped working. The Maoists overran the base and killed 43 soldiers.

“Maybe the weapons we were using were not designed for a long fight,” Nepalese army Brig. Gen. Deepak Gurung said after the battle. “They malfunctioned.”
In November, India’s Central Reserve Police—which uses the rifle—finally had enough. The CRPF is a counter-insurgency force tasked with fighting Maoist rebels known as Naxalites in several eastern states.

“We have sent a proposal to the government that all Insas rifles with the force be replaced by AK rifles,” CRPF general director Dilip Trivedi told the Times of India. “The Insas has a problem of jamming. Compared to AK and X-95 guns, Insas fails far more frequently.”

Another CRPF soldier alleged New Delhi chose to “lose the lives of our jawans to promote a faulty indigenous gun,” he said, using the Indian term for a soldier.
The Insas make up almost half of the CRPF’s arsenal. That’s become an acute problem as Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the conservative Bharatiya Janata Party push the counter-insurgents to crack down hard on the Naxalites.

As part of this offensive, the CRPF is relying more on heavier weapons such as mortars and grenade launchers. At the same time, the Maoists are building bigger bombs to use against the CRPF’s armored, “mine-protected” vehicles.

But there’s larger reasons why the Insas is such an awful gun.

The main cause was a myopic obsession among the Indian military beginning in the 1980s about relying more on weapons made at home. The state-owned Ordnance Factories Board manufactures the Insas.


To be sure, India had practical needs for a new weapon. Well into the 1990s, the Indian Army and the country’s internal security forces relied on a mix of old, 1950s-era FALs, Lee-Enfields — first developed in the 1890s — and Russian-made AK-type rifles.

The Insas turned into a hybrid, combining features of both the FAL and the AK-47. But the result was an awkward weapon—and one prone to failure.

A few years ago, a pseudonymous Indian gun blogger inspected several of the rifles. Hoo boy, they’re a sight to behold.



There’s lots of redundant parts and features that seem to serve no purpose except to make the rifle more complicated and expensive to produce. Its plastic hand guard is wobbly. The gas cylinder—which powers the reloading mechanism—is prone to breaking.

The Insas is also “several times” more expensive than an AK, according to a 2012 report in The Hindu.

In addition to the plastic parts, there’s “four different kinds of metal, an amalgam almost guaranteed to impair their functioning in the extreme [mountainous] climates of Siachen and Rajasthan,” the paper added.

Nilkamal Plastics—the Indian plastic furniture giant—produces the crack-prone magazines.

“In the end it shoots fairly accurately and with reasonable reliability,” the gun blogger wrote. “But it’s plagued by shitty quality and needless refinements of dubious value.”
After the poor performance in the Kargil War, the Indian Army fixed some of the rifle’s flaws—such as the problem with the spraying oil. But the rifle still sucks.

Last year, the Army tested the Israeli Galil ACE, the American CM-901 Modular Carbine and the Italian ARX-160 rifles as a potential replacements. But it’ll still take years to swap out the Insas. And that’s a big if.

But remember what the counter-insurgency troops said. India could always buy more AKs.

India’s Anti-Terror Troops Despise Their Assault Rifle — War Is Boring — Medium
 

Zarvan

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by ROBERT BECKHUSEN

In 1999, the Indian Army fought a three-month-long undeclared war with Pakistan. It was also the combat debut of India’s new Insas battle rifle.

The Insas is a very bad rifle.

During the conflict—waged over the disputed and mountainous Kargil district in the province of Kashmir—the Indian troops’ rifles jammed up, and their cheap, 20-round plastic magazines cracked in the cold weather.

To make a terrible weapon worse, the Insas had a habit ofspraying oil directly onto the handler’s face and eyes.
Designed to shoot in semi-automatic and three-round burst modes, some soldiers would pull the trigger, and the gun would unexpectedly spray rounds like a fully automatic.

Soldiers also preferred the heavier 7.62-millimeter rounds in the FAL rifle, which the Insas and its 5.56-millimeter rounds replaced.

Then in 2005, Maoist rebels attacked a Nepalese army base. The Nepalese troops had Insas rifles bought from India. During the 10-hour-long battle, the rifles overheated and stopped working. The Maoists overran the base and killed 43 soldiers.

“Maybe the weapons we were using were not designed for a long fight,” Nepalese army Brig. Gen. Deepak Gurung said after the battle. “They malfunctioned.”
In November, India’s Central Reserve Police—which uses the rifle—finally had enough. The CRPF is a counter-insurgency force tasked with fighting Maoist rebels known as Naxalites in several eastern states.

“We have sent a proposal to the government that all Insas rifles with the force be replaced by AK rifles,” CRPF general director Dilip Trivedi told the Times of India. “The Insas has a problem of jamming. Compared to AK and X-95 guns, Insas fails far more frequently.”

Another CRPF soldier alleged New Delhi chose to “lose the lives of our jawans to promote a faulty indigenous gun,” he said, using the Indian term for a soldier.
The Insas make up almost half of the CRPF’s arsenal. That’s become an acute problem as Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the conservative Bharatiya Janata Party push the counter-insurgents to crack down hard on the Naxalites.

As part of this offensive, the CRPF is relying more on heavier weapons such as mortars and grenade launchers. At the same time, the Maoists are building bigger bombs to use against the CRPF’s armored, “mine-protected” vehicles.

But there’s larger reasons why the Insas is such an awful gun.

The main cause was a myopic obsession among the Indian military beginning in the 1980s about relying more on weapons made at home. The state-owned Ordnance Factories Board manufactures the Insas.


To be sure, India had practical needs for a new weapon. Well into the 1990s, the Indian Army and the country’s internal security forces relied on a mix of old, 1950s-era FALs, Lee-Enfields — first developed in the 1890s — and Russian-made AK-type rifles.

The Insas turned into a hybrid, combining features of both the FAL and the AK-47. But the result was an awkward weapon—and one prone to failure.

A few years ago, a pseudonymous Indian gun blogger inspected several of the rifles. Hoo boy, they’re a sight to behold.



There’s lots of redundant parts and features that seem to serve no purpose except to make the rifle more complicated and expensive to produce. Its plastic hand guard is wobbly. The gas cylinder—which powers the reloading mechanism—is prone to breaking.

The Insas is also “several times” more expensive than an AK, according to a 2012 report in The Hindu.

In addition to the plastic parts, there’s “four different kinds of metal, an amalgam almost guaranteed to impair their functioning in the extreme [mountainous] climates of Siachen and Rajasthan,” the paper added.

Nilkamal Plastics—the Indian plastic furniture giant—produces the crack-prone magazines.

“In the end it shoots fairly accurately and with reasonable reliability,” the gun blogger wrote. “But it’s plagued by shitty quality and needless refinements of dubious value.”
After the poor performance in the Kargil War, the Indian Army fixed some of the rifle’s flaws—such as the problem with the spraying oil. But the rifle still sucks.

Last year, the Army tested the Israeli Galil ACE, the American CM-901 Modular Carbine and the Italian ARX-160 rifles as a potential replacements. But it’ll still take years to swap out the Insas. And that’s a big if.

But remember what the counter-insurgency troops said. India could always buy more AKs.

India’s Anti-Terror Troops Despise Their Assault Rifle — War Is Boring — Medium
Except for Navy most India's made in weapons have proved to be a disaster INSAS is one of them
 

Sipahi

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1) plastic magazines
2) habit ofspraying oil directly onto the handler’s face and eyes.
3) some soldiers would pull the trigger, and the gun would unexpectedly spray rounds like a fully automatic.
 

Maarkhoor

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@waz

The source is a blog
Tracing INSAS failure

he decision to do away with the INSAS assault rifles as the staple weapon in the infantry soldier’s bag merits a serious analysis. It was already disappearing from the frontline troops with the induction of some Kalashnikov variants replacing them. And embarking on a colossal `10,000 crore project will eventually bring about a total transformation, although in stages. The current plans are to initially acquire “65,000 rifles directly from a foreign vendor, for an estimated `4,850 crore, to equip the 120 infantry battalions deployed on the western and eastern fronts”. Subsequently, our own ordnance factories will produce rifles in excess of a stupendous figure of a 11,00,000 after getting the transfer of technology from the vendor. Although not stated so far but the project could become even bigger if the 8,00,000 strong paramilitary forces also induct these rifles.

Indigenisation of assault rifle in India: the case of the INSAS

“The INSAS project exhibited many of the problems that afflicted the larger Indian defense research and development efforts,” says Professor Rajesh Rajgopalan of the Jawaharlal Nehru University. According to him, “The INSAS project was established during a period of particular optimism in India’s domestic defense industrial research, what one author characterised as a ‘return to selfsufficiency’ after two decades of depending on imported arms.” A chronological study of the data collected by Rajgopalan’s sustained research on the subject provides a greater understanding of the problem and some of it is produced below. The Project began in the early 1980s. In 1982, the Indian Army accepted a proposal by the DRDO to produce an indigenous rifle system in the 5.56 mm calibre to replace India’s 7.76 mm calibre Ishapore/L1A1/FN FAL assault rifle. The project was to include a family of guns like an assault rifle, a light machine gun and a carbine, with the first two including lighter paratroop versions for a total of five separate guns. The rifle was supposed to be designed by November 1988 and enter service by 1988 and to equip the entire Indian Army in ten years. All would use a new type of 5.56 mm ammunition rather than the standard NATO 5.56 ammunition, and this was to be indigenously developed also. The 5.56 mm calibre was increasingly favoured after the experience of the Vietnam War, and armies worldwide were shifting to the 5.56 calibre from the 7.62 mm calibre because the heavier 7.62 mm cartridge tended to pass through the human body, thus usually doing less damage than the 5.56 mm, which tended to ‘tumble’ and cause more grievous injuries.

However, the project did not progress as expected. The initial contract was awarded to the ARDE in November 1980 at a cost of `18 million, which was further increased to `34 million in 1993. In the expectation that the gun would be ready, the government also sanctioned the setting up of manufacturing facilities for the weapon in November 1990 at a cost of `3.21 billion. It was expected to be ready by February 1993. The manufacturing units for the 5.56 mm rifle were set up at Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) and Ordnance Factory Trichy (OFT) while the LMG and the Carbine were to be manufactured at the Small Arms Factory, Kanpur. The ammunition was to be produced at the Ammunition Factory, Kirkee and Ordnance Factory, Varangaon, while the propellant for the ammunition was to be from Ordnance Factory, Itarsi. The Army indicated its ammunition requirement (3 billion for the next ten years) only in May 1989, delaying the setting up of plants.

The OFB’s facing difficulties in producing suitable ammunition. Between 1983 and 1987, the OFB produced only 36 rifles for testing. By 1992, only half of the 900 rifles required for testing were produced and these had to be tested using lower velocity ammunition. The ammunition for this is based on the standard NATO service round
Tracing INSAS failure | -- Indian Army Magazine, Indian Navy Magazine, Indian Air Force Magazine
 

GR!FF!N

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Will Serve front line nearly/over 20 fears in 4 armies,and will serve para military for even longer,with over half a million produced,no proper replacement was found that forced army to order 100000 of its upgraded version,well,its pretty bad. :lol:

All those "Flaws" has been discussed here till death.I'm not going to discuss it again.But I only want to say one thing,even the best rifles fail in Indian Army,due to diversity of terrains and environments it gets used.from -40 degree to +55 degree,jungle warfare,desert warfare,urban and COIN ops,High Altitude and Arctic Warfare,extremely humid to extremely dry,within mud and within various kind of sands---No Rifle in this world can operate flawlessly in these conditions.But guess what,INSAS passed all these quite satisfactorily while even best guns failed in recent IA trials which is conducted to replace INSAS.

So beyond doubt,INSAS is absolutely hopeless..:lol:
 

egodoc222

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Yes it's understandable...with 5.56 caliber it acn only injure the enemy...normally fighting a traditional army it would be useful as manpower is used to transport the injured...with PA its complete different story which recruits terrorists and don't care for injured...so army wanting higher calibre on is understandable and justified!!
 

nang2

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Chinese weapons technology will always lag behind 33 trillion dollar economy of NATO. Future belongs to partnerships and sharing technology. China will never surpass the west in technology, We don't want to be like China, we want to move with the world with lots of friends
Never say never.
 

gslv mk3

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Chinese weapons technology will always lag behind 33 trillion dollar economy of NATO. Future belongs to partnerships and sharing technology. China will never surpass the west in technology, We don't want to be like China, we want to move with the world with lots of friends
No comparisons bro,We must learn a bit or two from them too.
 

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