What's new

Indian nuclear deterrence has failed. Here is why.

Aspen

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 18, 2019
3,501
1
6,198
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
I have not read last 7 pages but I will say this:

Nukes are useless if other country has nukes. Nobody should rely on nukes for anything.

Pakistan is classic example of a country that has fallen into nuclear trap. Pakistan becomes so comfortable with nukes that the answer to every problem is nukes. Meanwhile, rest of Pakistan's actual defence strategy against India goes in dustbin, hence why non-nuclear countries like Iran and Turkey are way ahead of us now with cyber, drones, missiles, and space program because they don't have nukes and have to make actual defence strategy that works.

Without asymmetric warfare, you are screwed. Pakistan would be in deep shit right if not for the fact that neither India nor Pakistan have adopted cyber warfare, drones, hypersonics, and missiles. Both Pakistan and India have been very lazy and complacent on asymmetric war. One could argue that both sides benefit from the other side being equally lazy since both are afraid to try new technologies.

Pakistan would never stand a chance against a more competent nation like Iran that has quickly adopted these asymmetric technologies. Unlike India, Iranians are not lazy and are a very formidable, agile, and dangerous force against their enemies. Iran has managed to integrate together cyber warfare, drones, and missiles into a single seamless strike package.

Pakistan needs to look at bad example of Saudi. Saudi Arabia, a country that became far too lazy and complacent against asymmetric threats is getting decimated by Iran in Yemen. Houthis have been able to launch ballistic missiles that have managed to reach all the way to capital Riyadh. Saudis spent billions of dollars on US Patriot defence system that failed spectacularly and left KSA vulnerable when low flying Iranian cruise missiles and stealth drones punched through Saudi airspace effortlessly rendering expensive Saudi defences obsolete. Iran launched precision missiles at Aramco with pinpoint accuracy of a few centimeters and hit Saudi oil infrastructure with Shamoon cyberattacks that have been devastatingly effective. After Iran's Shamoon cyberattack, Saudi was backlogged for months since Iran disk nuked and wiped Aramco computers, Saudis got so trashed by Iran that it was cheaper for Saudis to buy new disks than to try to fix old ones. Iran hacked a US stealth RQ-170 drone flying in Afghanistan by spoofing GPS and jamming it into autopilot mode, then landed it in Iran and reverse engineered it and used it in the Saudi oil attack. Iran succeeded at neutralizing Saudis by force through asymmetric war. Iran integrated cyber, drones, and missiles into one coordinated package. This is what asymmetric war can do to Pakistan if we get complacent.


Space is a big warning to Pakistan for what will happen in future with cyber warfare, drones, hypersonics, and missiles if Pakistan keeps being complacent and lazy with India.

One area that India is way ahead of Pakistan is space. Pakistan has ignored space, cyber warfare, drones, hypersonics, and missiles for decades. Meanwhile, India quietly started building up ISRO and overtook Pakistan in space and now India is launching satellites to the moon. This is a major strategic failure for Pakistan and it will be a nightmare in the future.

If Pakistan doesn't get off its *** and starting getting ahead in other areas like cyber, drones, hypersonics, and missiles, Pakistan will suffer the same fate in these areas that it suffered in space while ISRO reached the moon and SUPARCO never left the ground. All of Pakistan's neighbors, China, India, Iran, and even Afghanistan have sent an astronaut to space. Pakistan still has not sent a single astronaut to space as of 2020 today. This shows you the lazy and sorry state of Pakistani defence and research. Pakistan falling behind India in space is a warning that shows what will happen in other areas if Pakistan does not wake up and establish a clear asymmetric strategy.

Pakistan cannot get complacent and soft on India just because we have nukes.

Pakistan needs to act like it doesn't have nukes. No country can use them. Pakistan needs to wake up and develop a real asymmetric defence strategy that relies on things that Pakistan can actually use like cyber, drones, missiles, hypersonics, and space.

If we rely just on nukes and keep ignoring cyber, drones, missiles, hypersonics, and space, Pakistan will be asymmetrically defenceless. We are already starting to see the beginning of this strategic nightmare as India gets ahead of Pakistan in space.

It is the duty of any person who loves Pakistan to devote their life to make sure Pakistan gets ahead of India in other areas like cyber, drones, missiles, and hypersonics.
 
Last edited:

Ultima Thule

ELITE MEMBER
Jan 26, 2012
16,887
0
1,091
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
I have not read last 7 pages but I will say this:

Nukes are useless if other country has nukes. Nobody should rely on nukes for anything.

Pakistan is classic example of a country that has fallen into nuclear trap. Pakistan becomes so comfortable with nukes that the answer to every problem is nukes. Meanwhile, rest of Pakistan's actual defence strategy against India goes in dustbin, hence why non-nuclear countries like Iran and Turkey are way ahead of us now with cyber, drones, missiles, and space program because they don't have nukes and have to make actual defence strategy that works.

Without asymmetric warfare, you are screwed. Pakistan would be in deep shit right if not for the fact that neither India nor Pakistan have adopted cyber warfare, drones, hypersonics, and missiles. Both Pakistan and India have been very lazy and complacent on asymmetric war. One could argue that both sides benefit from the other side being equally lazy since both are afraid to try new technologies.

Pakistan would never stand a chance against a more competent nation like Iran that has quickly adopted these asymmetric technologies. Unlike India, Iranians are not lazy and are a very formidable, agile, and dangerous force against their enemies.

Pakistan needs to look at bad example of Saudi. Saudi Arabia, a country that became far too lazy and complacent against asymmetric threats is getting decimated by Iran in Yemen. Houthis have been able to launch ballistic missiles that have managed to reach all the way to capital Riyadh. Iran has launched precision missiles at Aramco and hit Saudi oil infrastructure with cyberattacks that have been devastatingly effective. Iran succeeded at neutralizing Saudis by force through asymmetric war. This is what asymmetric war can do to Pakistan if we get complacent.

Space is a big warning to Pakistan for what will happen in future with cyber warfare, drones, hypersonics, and missiles if Pakistan keeps being complacent and lazy with India.

One area that India is way ahead of Pakistan is space. Pakistan has ignored space, cyber warfare, drones, hypersonics, and missiles for decades. Meanwhile, India quietly started building up ISRO and overtook Pakistan in space and now India is launching satellites to the moon. This is a major strategic failure for Pakistan and it will be a nightmare in the future.

If Pakistan doesn't get off its *** and starting getting ahead in other areas like cyber, drones, hypersonics, and missiles, Pakistan will suffer the same fate in these areas that it suffered in space while ISRO reached the moon and SUPARCO never left the ground. All of Pakistan's neighbors, China, India, Iran, and even Afghanistan have sent an astronaut to space. Pakistan still has not sent a single astronaut to space as of 2020 today. This shows you the lazy and sorry state of Pakistani defence and research. Pakistan falling behind India in space is a warning that shows what will happen in other areas if Pakistan does not wake up and establish a clear asymmetric strategy.

Pakistan cannot get complacent and soft on India just because we have nukes.

Pakistan needs to act like it doesn't have nukes. No country can use them. Pakistan needs to wake up and develop a real asymmetric defence strategy that relies on things that Pakistan can actually use like cyber, drones, missiles, hypersonics, and space.

If we rely just on nukes and keep ignoring cyber, drones, missiles, hypersonics, and space, Pakistan will be asymmetrically defenceless. We are already starting to see the beginning of this strategic nightmare as India gets ahead of Pakistan in space.

It is the duty of any person who loves Pakistan to devote their life to make sure Pakistan gets ahead of India in other areas like cyber, drones, missiles, and hypersonics.
Main hurdle for developing these kind of tech is our political+military culture, Turkey An Iran are lucky in that way their Govt backed their armed forces but unfortunately this is not a case of Pakistan
 

Aspen

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 18, 2019
3,501
1
6,198
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Main hurdle for developing these kind of tech is our political+military culture, Turkey An Iran are lucky in that way their Govt backed their armed forces but unfortunately this is not a case of Pakistan
It's a tragedy
 

Taimoor Khan

ELITE MEMBER
Jan 20, 2016
12,435
4
18,678
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
wow! a whole long (as of now 7 pages!) thread based on the OP's ignorant knowledge of Kargil war. Simple summary:

1. India does not see Pakistan as a major adversary - it is too small. Once Pakistan acquired nuclear weapons, though a bit late India made amends to its 1st strike constraint. Then when Musharraf tried to act smart, a few targeted bombs were sufficient.

2. China is a major power so there is some point in building deterrence against them. So nothing has changed, it is still pointed to China, the strategy.

if you guys in Pakistan need something to feel good about, instead of this sort of nonsense, just go watch a bollywood movie or a turkish drama and pretend it is all about Pakistan. Or any Disney movie like Cinderella or Snowwhite
Sunshine, quote the OP next time so your itch can be cured.

The whole point of deterrence is to deter.

1) Pakistan spanked India silly during kargil conflict, ON INDIA CONTROLLED TERRITORY, despite Indian claim to be a nuke power.

2) China has gobbled up thousands of sq km of territory that you claimed was yours. Add 60 sq kms to that in recent chinese actions.

Indian deterrence has failed quite spectacularly on all fronts. Worst, it's the justification of historic Indian claims to pursue nuke program, the chinese threat, was nothing but a empty rhetoric by Indian establishment, proven by past and present event.

If you cant protect your territory, what's your deterrence is for?
 

Thamizh Puli

BANNED
Aug 24, 2019
958
-7
503
Country
India
Location
United States
Sunshine, quote the OP next time so your itch can be cured.

The whole point of deterrence is to deter.

1) Pakistan spanked India silly during kargil conflict, ON INDIA CONTROLLED TERRITORY, despite Indian claim to be a nuke power.

2) China has gobbled up thousands of sq km of territory that you claimed was yours. Add 60 sq kms to that in recent chinese actions.

Indian deterrence has failed quite spectacularly on all fronts. Worst, it's the justification of historic Indian claims to pursue nuke program, the chinese threat, was nothing but a empty rhetoric by Indian establishment, proven by past and present event.

If you cant protect your territory, what's your deterrence is for?
Hey Pimple where sun don't shine, you obviously feed on the fabrications they teach you willingly. No hope of getting facts in to you.
 

xyx007

SENIOR MEMBER
Nov 27, 2017
2,620
5
3,953
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I have not read last 7 pages but I will say this:

Nukes are useless if other country has nukes. Nobody should rely on nukes for anything.

Pakistan is classic example of a country that has fallen into nuclear trap. Pakistan becomes so comfortable with nukes that the answer to every problem is nukes. Meanwhile, rest of Pakistan's actual defence strategy against India goes in dustbin, hence why non-nuclear countries like Iran and Turkey are way ahead of us now with cyber, drones, missiles, and space program because they don't have nukes and have to make actual defence strategy that works.

Without asymmetric warfare, you are screwed. Pakistan would be in deep shit right if not for the fact that neither India nor Pakistan have adopted cyber warfare, drones, hypersonics, and missiles. Both Pakistan and India have been very lazy and complacent on asymmetric war. One could argue that both sides benefit from the other side being equally lazy since both are afraid to try new technologies.

Pakistan would never stand a chance against a more competent nation like Iran that has quickly adopted these asymmetric technologies. Unlike India, Iranians are not lazy and are a very formidable, agile, and dangerous force against their enemies. Iran has managed to integrate together cyber warfare, drones, and missiles into a single seamless strike package.

Pakistan needs to look at bad example of Saudi. Saudi Arabia, a country that became far too lazy and complacent against asymmetric threats is getting decimated by Iran in Yemen. Houthis have been able to launch ballistic missiles that have managed to reach all the way to capital Riyadh. Saudis spent billions of dollars on US Patriot defence system that failed spectacularly and left KSA vulnerable when low flying Iranian cruise missiles and stealth drones punched through Saudi airspace effortlessly rendering expensive Saudi defences obsolete. Iran launched precision missiles at Aramco with pinpoint accuracy of a few centimeters and hit Saudi oil infrastructure with Shamoon cyberattacks that have been devastatingly effective. After Iran's Shamoon cyberattack, Saudi was backlogged for months since Iran disk nuked and wiped Aramco computers, Saudis got so trashed by Iran that it was cheaper for Saudis to buy new disks than to try to fix old ones. Iran hacked a US stealth RQ-170 drone flying in Afghanistan by spoofing GPS and jamming it into autopilot mode, then landed it in Iran and reverse engineered it and used it in the Saudi oil attack. Iran succeeded at neutralizing Saudis by force through asymmetric war. Iran integrated cyber, drones, and missiles into one coordinated package. This is what asymmetric war can do to Pakistan if we get complacent.


Space is a big warning to Pakistan for what will happen in future with cyber warfare, drones, hypersonics, and missiles if Pakistan keeps being complacent and lazy with India.

One area that India is way ahead of Pakistan is space. Pakistan has ignored space, cyber warfare, drones, hypersonics, and missiles for decades. Meanwhile, India quietly started building up ISRO and overtook Pakistan in space and now India is launching satellites to the moon. This is a major strategic failure for Pakistan and it will be a nightmare in the future.

If Pakistan doesn't get off its *** and starting getting ahead in other areas like cyber, drones, hypersonics, and missiles, Pakistan will suffer the same fate in these areas that it suffered in space while ISRO reached the moon and SUPARCO never left the ground. All of Pakistan's neighbors, China, India, Iran, and even Afghanistan have sent an astronaut to space. Pakistan still has not sent a single astronaut to space as of 2020 today. This shows you the lazy and sorry state of Pakistani defence and research. Pakistan falling behind India in space is a warning that shows what will happen in other areas if Pakistan does not wake up and establish a clear asymmetric strategy.

Pakistan cannot get complacent and soft on India just because we have nukes.

Pakistan needs to act like it doesn't have nukes. No country can use them. Pakistan needs to wake up and develop a real asymmetric defence strategy that relies on things that Pakistan can actually use like cyber, drones, missiles, hypersonics, and space.

If we rely just on nukes and keep ignoring cyber, drones, missiles, hypersonics, and space, Pakistan will be asymmetrically defenceless. We are already starting to see the beginning of this strategic nightmare as India gets ahead of Pakistan in space.

It is the duty of any person who loves Pakistan to devote their life to make sure Pakistan gets ahead of India in other areas like cyber, drones, missiles, and hypersonics.
This is my just a two cents

What happens when one side of a conflict adopts AI-powered weapons while the other, citing moral and ethical objections, does not? Half a century after the introduction of nuclear weapons, a country’s nuclear arsenal still plays an outsized role in determining its ability to exert its will globally, meaning military might still wins out over ethical considerations, placing considerable pressure on even peaceful nations to adopt AI weapons systems.
Most problematically, AI systems today are still a merely simplistic correlation engines, representing their worlds as naive primitive assemblies of colors and textures. An AI-powered weapon does not recognize a target as a specific individual, vehicle or structure, but rather as a unique set of colors and textures in a specific relationship to each other. This makes such weapons uniquely vulnerable to subtle modifications that can mask their targets or even cause them to attack unrelated targets.
 

Taimoor Khan

ELITE MEMBER
Jan 20, 2016
12,435
4
18,678
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
Hey Pimple where sun don't shine, you obviously feed on the fabrications they teach you willingly. No hope of getting facts in to you.
Sweetie, all the facts are laid infront of you, from your own miserable history. These aint fables that are spoon fed you while you were growing up neither the Bollywood masala with item number. Enjoy.
 

Paul2

FULL MEMBER
Nov 24, 2018
1,405
3
1,003
Country
China
Location
China
I'll tell you my take.

It's hard for leaders to get support for retaliations against enemies over small conflicts. Nobody is Modi's government would support him starting an all out, or even a limited war, they still have at least 4 more years of power, and free candies.

It's the same for all popular governments. Nobody wants war because power holders loose sleep, money, power over it, and that's their weakness against determined aggressors who can exploit it.

Populist governments would prefer to take a hit, and stay in power over being voted by people not liking the idea of wartime requisitions.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom