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Indian Navy successfully test fires advanced version of BrahMos missile | Watch

Zarvan

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Which ship was it launched from? It’s an impressive weapon for sure.
Kolkata Class. This is ER extended range version. And the Russian missile which it is copy from is 800 KM. So we can expect this version to be 800 KM. They are also working on 1600 KM missile.

@Areesh You don't need 7000 tone Frigate. Russia has already shown the way. The Kaliber cruise missiles which they fired on Syria were fired from Corvettes which have less then 3000 tone displacement.



None required. While the Brahmos is a great missile against an adversary that does not has a sophisticated AD, against a foe like Pakistan the Brahmos will be intercepted and neutralized. Just look at the height it flies at, look at the smoke and the faster it travels the higher the IR signature that will light up Pakistan's radars as soon as it is launched.
Yes response is needed. Because Russian Ukraine conflict has proven that all Air Defence systems are seriously over rated and in fog of war when dozens of cruise missiles are being fired Air Defence system won't be effective more then 25 %
 

satyamev

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800 km range is overkill for Pakistan.
It's a China specific missile.
For reference- Karachi to Mumbai is 880 km straighline distance.
 

Tshering22

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Best decision politically speaking.

Keeping wargames on with friendly Western countries at a time when we are professing neutrality at the UN would send the wrong signals to all the sides. Let things cool down in Europe first before proceeding. We can conduct wargames with friendly Asian countries in the meanwhile.
 

FuturePAF

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Kolkata Class. This is ER extended range version. And the Russian missile which it is copy from is 800 KM. So we can expect this version to be 800 KM. They are also working on 1600 KM missile.

@Areesh You don't need 7000 tone Frigate. Russia has already shown the way. The Kaliber cruise missiles which they fired on Syria were fired from Corvettes which have less then 3000 tone displacement.




Yes response is needed. Because Russian Ukraine conflict has proven that all Air Defence systems are seriously over rated and in fog of war when dozens of cruise missiles are being fired Air Defence system won't be effective more then 25 %
It’s probably a shipborne version of their sub-launched K-15 missile. Any chance satellites or ground based radars were able to watch the trajectory of the missile. It would give more details of its flight and insight in how best to counter it.
 

surya kiran

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Considering the engine and the seeker come from Russia, the Indians might be able to test one, but fielding them in numbers for the foreseeable future will be harder with the effect the Ukraine war is having on the Russian military industrial complex.

The Indian seeker was tested in March 2020. The Indian booster was also tested.The seeker testing could be one of the reasons, we seem to be testing the BrahMos.

Coming to the engines. They are now manufactured in India with ToT.
 

Maula Jatt

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Anyone studied Iranian millitary doctrine ?

They are supposed to have cost effective deterance against Thier foes - since we never matched budget or even go that route and play that game

Need Something more than just nukes as deterance

Iranian deterance is missiles- we can copy that
They have both quantity and quality here - invest in missiles
That's a good deterance where in case of attack you can raise hell in Urban centers with constant missile attacks- that's Iranian doctrine for crippling Urban centers, millitary installations with day night missile attacks

Proxies to engage Thier enemies but that came at a price for them - can we afford that price? Umh...
You can and you can't- depends on how strong your government, deep state is
We can get proxies going but ain't that good in making sure that it doesn't engulf us too
Blockage of Persian Gulf- this is something you can copy, probably more simpler things to do in this bucket list

You have missile batteries that can choke Persian Gulf for em and can attack Thier tankers (Iranians use swarm boat but that's not what one should follow tbh), chocking off Persian Gulf supply with missile batteries,frigites, submarines etc

We should look at other countries for innovative ways for deterance
 
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HydraChess

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Brahmos is a really expensive system for attacking land targets. Its pretty good in anti-ship role because ships are expensive. For attacking land targets a barrage of slow moving cruise missiles which can hide in ground clutter makes more sense. Look at USN, it does the same using Tomahawk missile. A 3-5 million dollar missile is good to hit frigates and destroyers from a distance of 500-800 KM. Its really bad to hit a hardened base on ground or to chase mobile coastal defence batteries. Cruise missiles like Kalibr will be more cost effective if produced locally. Sadly, India's 750 KM range cruise missile project Nirbhay still facing teething problems.

Other option will be ship launched ballistic missiles, something that India had for sometime now. Its called Dhanush which is a Prithvi missile launched from ship. A longer range solid fueled version might be good to test. May be commonality with the SLBM program might make sense. India already has a 750 KM range SLBM with a land based version called Shourya. If it can be adapted in a ship launched version it will be good for land attack role.

Lastly, I don't know why I like this Israeli missile a lot ... India should get it so it can finally show the world that it might have some balls!
400px-LORA_missile.JPG
 

Abid123

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Anyone studied Iranian millitary doctrine ?

They are supposed to have cost effective deterance against Thier foes - since we never matched budget or even go that route and play that game

Need Something more than just nukes as deterance

Iranian deterance is missiles- we can copy that
They have both quantity and quality here - invest in missiles
That's a good deterance where in case of attack you can raise hell in Urban centers with constant missile attacks- that's Iranian doctrine for crippling Urban centers, millitary installations with day night missile attacks

Proxies to engage Thier enemies but that came at a price for them - can we afford that price? Umh...
You can and you can't- depends on how strong your government, deep state is
We can get proxies going but ain't that good in making sure that it doesn't engulf us too
Blockage of Persian Gulf- this is something you can copy, probably more simpler things to do in this bucket list

You have missile batteries that can choke Persian Gulf for em and can attack Thier tankers (Iranians use swarm boat but that's not what one should follow tbh), chocking off Persian Gulf supply with missile batteries,frigites, submarines etc

We should look at other countries for innovative ways for deterance
Iran's military doctrine is totally different from Pakistan's military doctrine. Pakistan's military is build up to fight a long conventional war against India and only India. This is what is so "pathetic" about our military. Pakistan's biggest existential threat is not India but the US. Pakistan needs to prepare itself to face that threat.

Iran's doctrine is fighting a long war against superpower US+Israel+ GCC. Iran has choosen to adopt a asymmetrical strategy has it cant adopt a symmetrical strategy against such a massive force. Even the UAE has a larger military budget than Iran has.

Iran's assymetrical include using ballistic and cruise missiles, submarines in the persian gulf, anti ship ballistic missiles, anti ship cruise missiles, mines and long range air defence systems. Iran has in other words created a A2/AD strategy in the Persian gulf. Pakistan needs to do the same in Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea.

"Need Something more than just nukes as deterance"

Bro... Our longest range missile only has range of 2750 km... What deterence is that? We dont have full scale nuclear deterence. Only when have ICBM's capapble of target pretty much any point on earth we will have a complete nuclear deterence. You will never be safe until you have the ability to hit anyone and at anytime.

Max range of Shaheen 3:

1664318510584.png


But I agree with you. We need something more than just nukes for deterence. Something that could build up our "conventional deterence". There are a couple of options available to the Pakistani state/military here.

I agree with building up a large conventional missile force with a mix of ballistic and cruise missiles.

"That's a good deterance where in case of attack you can raise hell in Urban centers with constant missile attacks- that's Iranian doctrine for crippling Urban centers,

Disagree with urban centers. We have no need to raise hell in urban centers. It would not serve any purpose. Nor do Iran's missiles arsenal serve that purpose. Iran missile arsenal is mainly aimed at compensating for it's "vintage" air force.

It is aimed at striking enemies naval bases, airbases or military facilities in general.

Building a conventional missile arsenal could take Pakistan perhaps decades too make. It it estimated that Iran has 50k ballistic and cruise missiles while we have maybe a couple of hundreds.

If we can build up a arsenal as large as our requirements we could pound Indian airbases as well as American bases in the Middle East day/night with constant attacks.

We should settle on relatively "cheap" ballistic missiles that could be used to knock out IAF elite fighters such as SU-30MKI and Rafale at their bases.

In the event of a war between Pakistan and India, Pakistan could use it's ballistic missiles to knock out IAF fighter bases along the line of contact in a first strike. While India's fighters on the front line would take heavy losses and see their airbases knocked out, PAF fighters would be able to take the skies unscathed and deliver strikes against Indian troops on the front lines.

"Blockage of Persian Gulf- this is something you can copy, probably more simpler things to do in this bucket list".

You are right about more simple things to do.

Pakistan could have something much more destructive than ICBM'S. That would be the capability to cause global recession and massive disruption of financial markets. A trillion+ market mind you. But before this Pakistan would have to achieve energy independence from Saudi Arabia and the GCC. Also stop "begging" the same countries for money.

Pakistani military could 1000 medium range ballistic missiles to target oil fields and terminals in Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait, Bahrain and Iraq. Imagine what this would do to world oil prices? Pakistan would in fact not even need to win a single batte or use a single nuke to bring the world down to its knees economically.

We are talking about barrels of oil at 300 USD. Why go for tankers when you could potentially do this? Go for the big fish.

The question is does Pakistan want to use this action? This action would hurt Russia as well as Iron Brother. No country would be spared of effects of 200 dollars oil a barrel.

Another option is developing Anti-satellite weapons (ASAT). A modern war cannot be won without destroying communication network, and any war can be won by taking down satellites as most of the weapons and information channels are now connected and controlled by the help of very sophisticated satellites both of civilian and military. If Pakistan can destroy India/US military satelittes the Indian/US military would be "blind". Pakistan uses Chinese Beidou navigation for our missiles and other weapons. If India/US wants to obstruct Pakistan’s weapons guidance systems, India/US will have to destroy the Chinese satellites. Which is very unlikely.

Here you can see a Israeli Arrow 3 which can be used as ASAT weapon:

1664320134974.png


It only costs 2-3 million USD per unit.

So summary for possible deterrence to develop:

- Large conventional missile arsenal
- Missiles to target oil fields across the Middle East (excluding Iran)
- ASAT weapons
 

Maula Jatt

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Iran's military doctrine is totally different from Pakistan's military doctrine. Pakistan's military is build up to fight a long conventional war against India and only India. This is what is so "pathetic" about our military. Pakistan's biggest existential threat is not India but the US. Pakistan needs to prepare itself to face that threat.
hold up, hold up
whaat?!?! - Nah bro, no red neck want us dead, its Indians lol
nor does even Israel we have no issues with anyone in the world except for them

Lastly, I don't know why I like this Israeli missile a lot ... India should get it so it can finally show the world that it might have some balls!
400px-LORA_missile.JPG
having a lora doesn't mean you have balls dummie :lol:
 
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Abid123

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hold up, hold up
whaat?!?! - Nah bro, no red neck want us dead, its Indians lol
nor does even Israel we have no issues with anyone in the world except for them
That is not what I meant. We have enough nukes to use our own Samson option. So anybody wanting us dead will go down with us. But that is a last resort option of course. Besides the US is not randomly going to declare war against Pakistan without any reason. If it really wanted a war it would have attacked many years ago.

India on its own can not occupy Pakistan but with US support it can. This is what haunted Musharraf in his book "In the Line of Fire: A Memoir". With India being a QUAD it will have implications for Pakistan.

My point is that Pakistan needs to achieve enough level of deterence against the US that they would not dare to intervene in a potential future Indo-Pak war on India's side.

I don't need to mention how fu*ed we would be in a potential two front war. I hope have clarified what I meant.
 

RAMPAGE

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None required. While the Brahmos is a great missile against an adversary that does not has a sophisticated AD, against a foe like Pakistan the Brahmos will be intercepted and neutralized. Just look at the height it flies at, look at the smoke and the faster it travels the higher the IR signature that will light up Pakistan's radars as soon as it is launched.
Like it waw intercepted in Mian Channu?
 

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