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Indian LCA Tejas Or Pakistani JF-17: Who Is Winning The Malaysian Fighter Jet Contract?

Windjammer

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There is no official or unofficial information from a Pakistani sources regarding Pakistan pursuing the Malaysian deal. Most of the information is from Indian sources. On this forum suddenly the Indians have become the experts on the Thunder.

Mostly hanger queens due to low serviceability.
Rest assured, once Malaysia decides, these Indians will disappear like a fart in the wind just like they did after 27.2.2019.....and it took them over two years to start their racket again.
Have you noticed their pride and joy the so called Indigenous Tejas :laugh: is not even present on their Republic Day.
 

Arulmozhi Varman

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Unfortunately quite a lot of bragging by Indian members here. Tejas can do this and that....

Tejas can, but members have to respect the R&D timeline and process. It's true Uttam AESA have completed integration testing with Tejas LSP and all modes except air to sea mode has nearly finished testing. But that's just one process. One need to integrate weapons and fire from it too.

After that many proto are equipped with radars and test fired. Only then the dev process is completed.
Though we can still sell "untested" versions of the aircrafts. Gripen sold an new version to Brazil without having that version of the AC itself. France sold us F3R variant with India specific variants on which they are testing the 1st Rafale manufactured. They will deliver that aircraft last. For example. Eurofighter and F16 sold us versions of aircrafts with whom they did not have a single prototype.
 

GHALIB

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Unfortunately quite a lot of bragging by Indian members here. Tejas can do this and that....

Tejas can, but members have to respect the R&D timeline and process. It's true Uttam AESA have completed integration testing with Tejas LSP and all modes except air to sea mode has nearly finished testing. But that's just one process. One need to integrate weapons and fire from it too.

After that many proto are equipped with radars and test fired. Only then the dev process is completed.
Though we can still sell "untested" versions of the aircrafts. Gripen sold an new version to Brazil without having that version of the AC itself. France sold us F3R variant with India specific variants on which they are testing the 1st Rafale manufactured. They will deliver that aircraft last. For example. Eurofighter and F16 sold us versions of aircrafts with whom they did not have a single prototype.
very true .
 

kris

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Tejas‘s Internal fuel capacity is 2460kg which is 5423.372 pounds, still has less combat radius?
JF-17’s internal fuel capacity is 5130 pounds.

No, MK1A is just an upgraded Tejas, not in development, IAF has ordered 83 MK1As already and production will start as per schedule.

JF17 Block-II is not better than Tejas MK1 but Block-III is very advanced compared to Mk1, Block-III is direct competitor of MK1A.
FA-50 has 0 chances of selection because British companies would not give export license to KAI again.
Lca uses an American engine, has more fuel storage and probably better aerodynamics too
But yet range is less than half of jf-17... What a propaganda
 

Euro fighter

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Tejas has alot western content which adds to its appeal
USA engine israeli radar and HMS and western weapons mixed with russian & indian inventory
But it wont win ......... WHY ....... poor manufacturing history
 

ziaulislam

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Lca uses an American engine, has more fuel storage and probably better aerodynamics too
But yet range is less than half of jf-17... What a propaganda
Ask HAL about range discrepancy
But defineitvely it is less clean design as compared to jf17 given lack of canards

Jf17 range is open book we know detail high high and low low ranges with different payloads from dubai 2014 airshow detail slide show
 

cloud4000

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India’s multi-role Tejas fighter has captured the imagination of the Malaysian air force for quite some time now. The 4.5 generation Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) later enthralled the audience when it performed at the 2019 Malaysian Air Show at Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition (LIMA-2019).

The combat jet impressed the crowd with its artful maneuvers, engaging in loops, slow speed passes, minimum radius turn, maximum rate turn, negative G turn, along with point rolls.

It was the first international performance of the indigenous Indian fighter produced by India’s state-based company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

Malaysia’s air force is in dire need of new and modern combat aircraft and its ageing fighter fleets need up-gradation. The Malaysian Air Force chief Gen. Affendi Buang had said that 40% of the country’s combat fleet – which includes British, American and Russian fighters – needs urgent up-gradation.

Tejas fighter
Consequently, the country floated a global tender to procure a variety of different aircraft, ranging from fighter trainers to medium-range combat aircraft (MRCA). The Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) intends to fill the operational and combat requirement gaps by ordering a certain number of combat jets in a two-stage process.

Along with India’s multi-role LCA Tejas, which has reportedly emerged as the top contender in the race, other aircraft in the fray include the Swedish Gripen, Pakistan’s Chinese origin JF-17 jet, the South Korean T-50, among others.

Who is Leading the Race?
During its 2019 air show presence in Malaysia, Tejas attracted the curiosity of the then Malaysian PM Mahathir Mohammad, who experienced the cockpit of the aircraft first-hand and was reportedly impressed with the systems and design.

Former Malaysian PM Mahathir Mohamad inspecting Tejas at Malaysia air show (file photo)
India and Malaysia have similar operational needs and weapon types with both countries using considerable Russian and NATO systems.

The two countries even match in their military strategy and the use of defense technologies. That will offer an advantage for Malaysia if it chooses Tejas which can accommodate both Russian and Western weapon systems, with both countries operating an amalgam of the fighter aircraft from both blocs.

With India said to be offering the latest version Mk1A, which features modern AESA radar, new avionics and the capability to integrate a variety of weaponry, it will be hard for the Malaysian Air Force to ignore Tejas.

The fighter also boasts of enhanced maneuverability, aerodynamics, maintainability and pilot survivability, self-protection jammer, radar warning receiver and external ECM pod.

To sweeten the deal, India has offered to establish a Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul (MRO) facility in Malaysia to ensure high-rate availability of the aircraft.

At approximately $42 million per unit, Tejas is an economical choice for RMAF, considering it brings a wide range of modern capabilities to a multi-role fighter and has an operational edge over Pakistan’s JF-17 in many respects, the experts say.




Moreover, the Indian Air Force’s recent order for 83 Tejas aircraft has helped scale down the prices significantly. Malaysia is likely to place an initial order for 12 jets, and go for 24 more at a later stage.

With a team from the country visiting India for assessing the suitability of the aircraft within months, there is great competition expected between LCA Tejas, JF-17, and Korean FA-50

JF-17 vs LCA Tejas
Compared to JF-17, Tejas has a combat edge with its more potent engine, radar system, and electronic warfare suite, and not to forget the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile capability according to IAF experts talking to the EurAsian Times.

JF-17 also comes with a Russian engine, about which Malaysia’s experience has not been good when it comes to serviceability. The country also operates the Russian MiG-29s with similar engines, which are said to require significant after-sales support and maintenance.

However, Tejas is powered by a General Electric F404 engine, also used in Malaysia’s F/A-18s, which has delivered satisfying performance.

With Kuala Lampur engaged in maritime border disputes with Beijing, there’s are chances that the country could prefer the Indian or even Korean fighters over that of Pakistan.

Malaysia and China have been locked in a tense standoff in the South China sea over exploration rights, with Chinese naval vessels repeatedly harassing the former’s exploration and drilling ships and other sea assets.

Experts say that Kaula Lampur takes the Chinese threat very seriously, and this could be a major factor in deciding the top contender for its combat aircraft procurement deal.

This could explain why Malaysia has been keen on spending more time studying India’s Tejas, with a team heading again for India in the coming few months.

Nitin J Ticku a political analyst with the EurAsian Times says that buying a fighter jet is not a simple process as all these decisions are politically motivated. A country’s air force aspires to have potent fighter jets that also suits the political interest of the ruling government.

The purchase of the JF-17s would bind Malaysia with the Chinese weapons while the FA-50 or LCA Tejas would give them access to ‘trusted’ Western technology, despite being of Korean and Indian origin.

Got this post late.

If I was the Malaysian air force, and I had to choose between the JF-17 and Tejas, even I would pick the JF-17 if forced to choose. JF-17 is a much more mature platform that has been operating for a while now. On the other hand, Tejas has a way to go to prove itself.

If the Malaysian are keen on the Tejas, they should wait a few years to see how it develops.
 

MirageBlue

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It is not ready for your own airforce and you expect a foreign customer to start using it. Avionics and radar have to fielded in numbers and obtain a good track record in combat exercises for any customer to think of using it in their airforces.
So is the JF-17 Block II being offered? Since there is not a single JF-17 Block III in service as yet either.
Ask HAL about range discrepancy
But defineitvely it is less clean design as compared to jf17 given lack of canards

Jf17 range is open book we know detail high high and low low ranges with different payloads from dubai 2014 airshow detail slide show
Or maybe physics doesn't apply to the JF-17..with similar amount of fuel and a turbofan that is less fuel efficient than the GE F-404-IN-20, it has that much greater range..laws of physics must also be bending for the JF-17..either that or people can't understand the difference between ferry range and combat range.
 

MirageBlue

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All of them license produced by HAL.
No I don't believe the Litening LDP is license produced in India. A large batch was acquired from Israel directly for the entire IAF fleet. Nor is the DASH HMDS license produced by HAL as far as I know..

Elta 2052 yes, they have acquired the rights to assemble it in India so that they can also maintain them when they are in service. After all the Elta 2052 is going to be on the Jaguar DARIN 3 as well, so at least 80 odd Elta 2052 AESA radars will be acquired.

We can offer our indigenous TOPSIGHT-1 which Indian Navy uses on MiG-29K operational on our aircraft carriers.
Thales TopSight will need to be integrated. I would think the Malaysians will be more pragmatic, the way the Qataris were when they selected the Elbit Targo as the HMDS for their Rafales.
 

MirageBlue

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Got this post late.

If I was the Malaysian air force, and I had to choose between the JF-17 and Tejas, even I would pick the JF-17 if forced to choose. JF-17 is a much more mature platform that has been operating for a while now. On the other hand, Tejas has a way to go to prove itself.

If the Malaysian are keen on the Tejas, they should wait a few years to see how it develops.
Mature means nothing when you're comparing technology. Everything depends on the timeline that the RMAF has in mind. If they are eager to induct these light fighters as soon as they can, then the Tejas Mk1A may have a problem because the Uttam AESA radar is not yet certified for the Mk1A. That is assuming the Malaysians don't want any Israeli equipment.

the Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A are both technologically 1 generation ahead of the JF-17 Block II in both FCS, structures and half a generation in avionics.

And the JF-17 Block III is not yet anywhere near service, and uses an Air Cooled KLJ-7A AESA . Again, an inferior solution to a liquid cooled Elta 2052 or Uttam. Air cooled radar is one of the worst decisions in terms of performance. Personally I was very glad that the Block III went with the Air cooled AESA..it's performance will deteriorate exponentially with increase in altitude thanks to the lower density of air. And heat buildup is the single biggest factor that will limit performance on an AESA radar..companies are thinking of double liquid cooling to improve performance and these guys have gone backwards.

Maybe it's cheaper and that's what convinced the PAF to go with it. Or maybe the space and power for the liquid cooling circuit is the problem, for the JF-17. Whatever the reason, the RMAF will not be thrilled with that offering for sure.

Also, the biggest Achilles heel of the JF-17 is it's Russian engine. the RMAF guys have flown MiG-29s with the RD-33s and know perfectly well how poor it's reliability and MTBF and MTBO is when compared to a Western turbofan. Their MiG-29 fleet was so under utilized for a good reason..primarily the poor serviceability of the type and it's engines..

Compared to the RD-33/93, the F-404 is one of the finest turbofans ever produced. That is a key advantage of the Tejas and FA-50.
 

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