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India will never succeed in its nefarious goals: Gen Asim Munir

VkdIndian

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Just look at the state of their economy and ours.
Time for generals to stay out of economy, diplomacy, education and all other pass time activities.
Focus and limit the focus on domain assigned to them and not taken over by them.
That should be a better demand then asking a general about state of the economy.
 
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langda khan

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I have seen in many more ways than their defamation of JFT.

In a safe house, when a captured operative upon interrogation gives information about how Pakistan, its top brass, and its lower cadres have to be psychologically affected so the system of command and control at higher command level gets affected as well as how soldiers stop following orders losing their faith in their field commanders, is eye opening.

This is why whatever crap of media I hear on PDF especially related through IK against Bajwa, IK against military, it hold no more value for me than a rotten turd. IK may have his complaints which he emotionally crapped verbally through media, but India had gained leaps and bounds through this idiot IK. On top of that, Generals want DHA, assets, plots, postings abroad post retirements etc, well how many Division's and how many Corps have lost their command and control system since Generals are sitting all day becoming real estate agents. None. How many mutiny's have occurred ? How many MBTs lost their barrels ? How many Generals have been sent home from duty based on their performance level during command ? How many Indian military formations have infiltrated inside Pakistan ? So honestly, spare the crap already.

And the PTI cult followers think their eyes have been opened as to what military has been doing to Pakistan, well its nobody's fault if you idiots had been sleeping throughout your lives. Its the same emotion when at end of 70's Bhutto was hanged, eyes were opened even back then. Go back further and during Ayub's tenure, much more eyes of the enlightened ones were shockingly opened beyond comprehension. Fast forward 50 years and only eyes are opened, brain cells still can't function. Just for his seat, and for the fourth time in history Pakistan's public eyes have been opened, this time by IK because public liked to shut eyes after Ayub, Zia, and Musharraf. Ohh thats a real victory for public- eyes got opened- congratulations.

Back in kargil war, propaganda through media became the tool of the trade. Pakistan was slow to follow and is lacks behind even today. TTP is winning the war through propaganda of exploitations of religion, BLA is winning through exploitation of independence and PTI cults followers are chanting the same formula that IK has opened their eyes. They all have now a common enemy - Pakistan Army. So who is pulling the strings ? India.

The enlightened and literate ones here present the solution, cut numbers of PA, cut strength, tame Generals, court martial officers, reign in COAS, make CJCS from PAF.PN, only then will the needs of literate ones be met.

Its evident that Pakistan's public can be shoved in any direction, give it a few months only. Their brains cannot comprehend anything apart from a propaganda. Maybe teachers should teach children through propaganda tactics - its effective and you know what ? teachers do, especially in madrassahs and Govt schools in villages. This is why Pakistan gets clerks level professionals instead of researchers.

What happened to 18 brand new F-16s, what happened to military funding for AH-1Zs, who stood up when Pakistan wanted T-129s. Its not even mentioned here on forum how the hell Pakistan Army went forward to get surplus M-113s and M-109s. The deal for AW-series helicopters was also going to fall through along with Fennecs variants.

PK knows it very well.

Back in kargil war, everybody had TVs and people were glued to TVs to get news, thank god for load shedding which switched off the dish antennas showing Indian news channels where India had won the war even before Pakistani troops were ordered to fall back. Now everybody has a mobile phone with 20 apps installed for media to get information, utilising few seconds of their precious resources of brain to process that information and post it like infestation on media as if another second lost will be doomsday. Media has made people believe that PA is actually working against interest of Pakistan. That makes BLA and TTP jobs more easier, to name a few.

Pakistani media has done half the job for India in creating enemies for Pakistan Army through PTI backlash. where is Bajwa's martial law ? where is Bajwa's extension ? where is leakage of nuclear secrets by top brass ? which parts of Pakistan have been sold to Israel ?

JFT is just one example. Try sitting with someone from intel community who has interrogated TTP or Indian operatives and then its known how media is and will be used to malign the security apparatus of Pakistan as well as keep strangling Pakistan's economy so the defense structure has to fall one way or another.

Just another small example, what has Military Police sent to Qatar, got to do with COIN war when all the garrisons themselves have a regiment assigned as Garrison Security force (GSF), which has further deputed trained paramilitary troops at checkpoints to check ingress into cantts and providing security to army formations all over Pakistan. GHQ has its own security force which was previously DSG but now its a new onw. So obviously MP can be spared, its not LCB or SSG which has to be thrown into combat against TTP.

When I mentioned India as initiator of 5th gen warfare against Pakistan, the members on PDF started attacking me, who cares, if these brain washed members have course mates, friends, relatives in MI or CMI, they would themselves know how India is trying its best to dismantle security system and control the circumstances in Pakistan through any means necessary.

Regarding Defence Industry, why do we discuss Turkey and China only, because that is all what Pakistan is left with. India is getting P-8s, AH-64s, C-130s and maybe F-18s in future who knows, while Rafale is already there and offers for SU-35 and Gripen are always on the table, what if F-35 becomes available.

Where would PAF shift its focus UCAVs or stealth fighters ? would PA go after mechanization of formations or keep troops engaged with TTP/BLA ? Missiles and nukes are not the answer anymore unless a full scale war occurs, because use of these can itself lead to a full scale war during a minor skirmish.

Last few days I've been getting an AI generated ad on you tube of a new Spy thriller of an Indian spy in Pakistan. Murshib I think his name is. Looks slick
 

langda khan

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Just one ? that's disappointing for AI even, considering this 2022.

Mukhbir. Apologies. Got the name wrong.

I can't seem to get images to show when I embed the links?

@Signalian what happens currently between India Pakistan. I'm sure the treatment is quite violent and painful. But are all spies actually killed. If you can share.
 
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my2cents

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Gen Asim Munir seems a lot tougher and more grounded to reality. My hope for him is rising.
India has lot to lose and our politicians know that. Modi even chided with Putin that this is not time for war. Under G20 leadership, Modi will work for a safer world.
India has taken over as Chairperson of the SCO for 2023, and will host leaders of all SCO countries at a summit in Delhi expected in mid-2023. India will not start any adventure for sure. So much is at stake for India to grow and become stronger.
 

Krptonite

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There is no frustration but only an uphill task ahead where generations have failed so far.
People of our countries take pride in their nationality, to see it looted away by the guardians tasked with protecting it is something I can personally understand and empathize with.

However the media is by its very nature controversial to the ruling elite for a journalists patriotic duty is to discover and showcases deficiencies. This feedback is essential to a vibrant and healthy democracy.

I do understand we live in an age of misinformation and misdirection, but i would disagree with the notion of quick justice espoused by many here, that would be akin to cutting of the symptoms rather than addressing root cause.

Research into issues, causes, factors and mayhaps rectification into the issues that plague governance should be the first step. Many here dream of a messiah to magic away the ills but that would last so long as the savior exists, a systematic structure that can withstand and modify itself to better protect its constituents would be far more advantageous. In this, that the nature of problems we face, IMO our people are the most similar, then mayhaps the solutions to those problems would not be limited by geographical confines. The true cost of this useless rivalry between us would be the same enlightenment pushing across boundaries that propelled the European nations into economic prosperity wither away here.

The way ahead is long and difficult but so long as people realise the need for an systematic approach instead of a knee jerk one, they would be on the right path.

I wish you and the people for this sub continent nothing but the best in the endeavors to better ourself coming ahead.
 

Solidify

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Look whos talking the General whos anti-patriots
is making bold statements.
An Army who cannot control small skirmishes than to make out of limits statements is all this lose can do.
 

Menace2Society

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It has already succeeded, regime change and PDM. :lol:

Lets see how long this charade will go on. They will do anything to protect themselves from corruption cases and their flow of free money.
 

Goenitz

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I generally agree with most of what you've written here - India is doing amazing in destroying the morale of the nation, and politically destabilising it.

But that can partially be blamed on the establishment, who are definitely not apolitical as they claim, they should have foresaw the national support IK had gained and attempted to work with him rather than cast him aside. They are well aware of the public's growing disdain towards the same faces who are labelled as theives, rightly so. These are blunders on their part for not anticipating this.

They should also be able to recognise that IK's presence itself was a massive morale booster and he was like a cohesive glue in society, he was and is an asset worth more than any Sharif or Bhutto.

Same with the economic downfall, it's them allowing horsetrading and nepotism to take place which leads to unqualified and inexperienced people in positions they aren't capable of handling, this deteriorates an institution, and for a country, this has a detrimental effect, and we simply cannot afford it. There's certain national institutions where nepotism and corruption will cost you the entire country.

Can you expand more on the bolded statements please? Are you saying since India didn't invade, this means they are doing a good job? ( Because regardless of the army's political involvement, it does have a credible amount of capable equipment so that in itself is a decent deterrent regardless of the men themselves, it would require planning and timing even if India did want to make a move, it doesn’t say much about the men themselves)
That analysis is wrong.
The point is the 'awakening' occurred in segments. In Ayub era, some part of realisation happened. Anyway, the 'awakened' portion of public got their separate land in 1971.

Bhutto has its own tale of corruption and atrocities that Army gained back the position. Anyway, army personals were shot at in Rawalpindi after Bhutto death. If it doesn't matter then ok.

In Kargil, it was Pak was India. The nation was biased and it should have been. We knew what happened but we supported Army's narrative.

In WOT, majority of Pakistan's supported army's narrative (not like Kargil though). We had too many dissidents.

Cut short. This time no one is supporting Army's narrative. People compare 'awakening' the same as before. Not realising, the scale and time. Now, everything is recorded in real time. Everyone is bashing army from Karachi to Lahore to Peshawar to Quetta to Pindi.

When in history people distributed sweets on COAS retirement?
Anyway good luck for their analysis.
 

Ichigo

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India is ahead in 5th gen warfare against Pakistan. Success would be disintegration of Pakistan, which PA wouldn't allow.
please get over this chorun of 5th Gen warfare and all that horse shit. You honestly think, they would indulge in these tactics when all it takes is a low ranked afisaaaaaar and u can see how wide the legs were spread (this approach is the one, ppl used thousands of years ago when the warfare generation horse shit wasnt even imagined) ... even a professional ***** cant stretch that wide. sorry for the language but i cant find a better way to put it...
between i always knew we had a few such toonts in top brass but seriously i am beginning to think the shit runs alot more deeper, than wat we thought previously. our at least the sane ones are equally guilty in giving the protective shield either in name of Institution ka waaqaaar and all such shitty logics... when in reality thats the only thing that getting damaged to the point of no return...
 

Mentee

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The enlightened and literate ones here present the solution, cut numbers of PA, cut strength, tame Generals, court martial officers, reign in COAS, make CJCS from PAF.PN, only then will the needs of literate ones be met.


Whats wrong with ending f.a pass qouta in every sphere of civil life and hiring ms/PhD professionals to run executive branch instead of these b.a pass (mostly) retards?


You cannot keep threatening the nation with a bogeyman and keep all the cookies to yourselves. Fatima jinnah or Bhutto didn't had that big of number of masses from middle, upper middle class supporting their cause ------ I.k have em .

make CJCS from PAF.PN, only then will the needs of literate ones be met.

Actually its pretty much practical and need of the hour . In this day and age land force lacks the capability and operational awareness to formulate and execute any military campaign vis a vis air or naval force ------.
 

SQ8

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I have seen in many more ways than their defamation of JFT.

In a safe house, when a captured operative upon interrogation gives information about how Pakistan, its top brass, and its lower cadres have to be psychologically affected so the system of command and control at higher command level gets affected as well as how soldiers stop following orders losing their faith in their field commanders, is eye opening.

This is why whatever crap of media I hear on PDF especially related through IK against Bajwa, IK against military, it hold no more value for me than a rotten turd. IK may have his complaints which he emotionally crapped verbally through media, but India had gained leaps and bounds through this idiot IK. On top of that, Generals want DHA, assets, plots, postings abroad post retirements etc, well how many Division's and how many Corps have lost their command and control system since Generals are sitting all day becoming real estate agents. None. How many mutiny's have occurred ? How many MBTs lost their barrels ? How many Generals have been sent home from duty based on their performance level during command ? How many Indian military formations have infiltrated inside Pakistan ? So honestly, spare the crap already.

And the PTI cult followers think their eyes have been opened as to what military has been doing to Pakistan, well its nobody's fault if you idiots had been sleeping throughout your lives. Its the same emotion when at end of 70's Bhutto was hanged, eyes were opened even back then. Go back further and during Ayub's tenure, much more eyes of the enlightened ones were shockingly opened beyond comprehension. Fast forward 50 years and only eyes are opened, brain cells still can't function. Just for his seat, and for the fourth time in history Pakistan's public eyes have been opened, this time by IK because public liked to shut eyes after Ayub, Zia, and Musharraf. Ohh thats a real victory for public- eyes got opened- congratulations.

Back in kargil war, propaganda through media became the tool of the trade. Pakistan was slow to follow and is lacks behind even today. TTP is winning the war through propaganda of exploitations of religion, BLA is winning through exploitation of independence and PTI cults followers are chanting the same formula that IK has opened their eyes. They all have now a common enemy - Pakistan Army. So who is pulling the strings ? India.

The enlightened and literate ones here present the solution, cut numbers of PA, cut strength, tame Generals, court martial officers, reign in COAS, make CJCS from PAF.PN, only then will the needs of literate ones be met.

Its evident that Pakistan's public can be shoved in any direction, give it a few months only. Their brains cannot comprehend anything apart from a propaganda. Maybe teachers should teach children through propaganda tactics - its effective and you know what ? teachers do, especially in madrassahs and Govt schools in villages. This is why Pakistan gets clerks level professionals instead of researchers.

What happened to 18 brand new F-16s, what happened to military funding for AH-1Zs, who stood up when Pakistan wanted T-129s. Its not even mentioned here on forum how the hell Pakistan Army went forward to get surplus M-113s and M-109s. The deal for AW-series helicopters was also going to fall through along with Fennecs variants.

PK knows it very well.

Back in kargil war, everybody had TVs and people were glued to TVs to get news, thank god for load shedding which switched off the dish antennas showing Indian news channels where India had won the war even before Pakistani troops were ordered to fall back. Now everybody has a mobile phone with 20 apps installed for media to get information, utilising few seconds of their precious resources of brain to process that information and post it like infestation on media as if another second lost will be doomsday. Media has made people believe that PA is actually working against interest of Pakistan. That makes BLA and TTP jobs more easier, to name a few.

Pakistani media has done half the job for India in creating enemies for Pakistan Army through PTI backlash. where is Bajwa's martial law ? where is Bajwa's extension ? where is leakage of nuclear secrets by top brass ? which parts of Pakistan have been sold to Israel ?

JFT is just one example. Try sitting with someone from intel community who has interrogated TTP or Indian operatives and then its known how media is and will be used to malign the security apparatus of Pakistan as well as keep strangling Pakistan's economy so the defense structure has to fall one way or another.

Just another small example, what has Military Police sent to Qatar, got to do with COIN war when all the garrisons themselves have a regiment assigned as Garrison Security force (GSF), which has further deputed trained paramilitary troops at checkpoints to check ingress into cantts and providing security to army formations all over Pakistan. GHQ has its own security force which was previously DSG but now its a new onw. So obviously MP can be spared, its not LCB or SSG which has to be thrown into combat against TTP.

When I mentioned India as initiator of 5th gen warfare against Pakistan, the members on PDF started attacking me, who cares, if these brain washed members have course mates, friends, relatives in MI or CMI, they would themselves know how India is trying its best to dismantle security system and control the circumstances in Pakistan through any means necessary.

Regarding Defence Industry, why do we discuss Turkey and China only, because that is all what Pakistan is left with. India is getting P-8s, AH-64s, C-130s and maybe F-18s in future who knows, while Rafale is already there and offers for SU-35 and Gripen are always on the table, what if F-35 becomes available.

Where would PAF shift its focus UCAVs or stealth fighters ? would PA go after mechanization of formations or keep troops engaged with TTP/BLA ? Missiles and nukes are not the answer anymore unless a full scale war occurs, because use of these can itself lead to a full scale war during a minor skirmish.
I wont link the disinformation entirely to the battles fought but a lot of it does rest on the establishment or rather the dictatorships that decided to politicize the military and associated bureaucracy to keep themselves in power - compounded by the civilian rule that followed because they too took cues on how the proverbial herd of goats that are Pakistanis need to be ruled.

All procurement issues aside, many of these are compounded by military folks themselves because as I keep reiterating they are Pakistanis themselves and part of the corruption/mediocrity in society which tempts them too.

A good analogy is what happened here:

USAF Generals retirement

In a nutshell - two USAF 4-stars were offered cushy($5000 a day!) jobs with Silkway airlines post retirement because of how they helped secure contracts for them during the Afghan war. Surprise! Surprise! We thought only PA 3-stars were coddled with cushy key posts based on their dealings - but human nature doesn’t change.

so does that mean the Pakistani military is now absolved of all wrongdoings in that “it’s common”?
No, because here is the catch - unlike the story in the post (which the USAF tried to block but failed) if something similar was published in Pakistan it is likely the journalist would find themselves “reeducated” or worse and it would stand buried and forgotten.

Here, it is possible that more scrutiny would come on the contracts of USAF and post retirement activities - the two generals were not cleared to work for Silkway even though reportedly they are citing even the Azeri government may cause a diplomatic ruckus if these men aren’t allowed to work. And the news wont be buried - at least not by visits in the night. Maybe in the courts - maybe by lawmakers trying to hide their own dealings and so on - but that system of checks and balances will get them one way or the other…if not today then tomorrow or ten years later.

That doesn’t exist in Pakistan because there is one overlord established system with its allies in the political and business class - who are above the checks and balances because they don’t even consider anyone worthy enough to question them. Common Pakistani is really not a stakeholder in their affairs of running this piece of land as they see fit.

So at the end the JF-17s , M-109s or otherwise don’t defend the people of Pakistan as much as they defend this rotten system. And while there isn’t a massive revolt (as should never be in military discipline) - you do have major voices of veterans who bled as much or more than those serving talking to dissent.

Unfortunately, a brash egomaniac like IK is the face of this “enlightenment” but so be it. After all, he is what resonates with the majority and if they can somehow(unlikely knowing the characteristics of the people) sustain their want for a difference in how they want to live their lives and achieve a just society… what’s the harm? It completely dismantles a termite ridden closet because people could not get over their core rotten values or work together?

India will do whatever it can to exploit any cracks - be it during this time - Musharrafs or otherwise. We are an enemy state to them and kudos to them for knowing how to press the right buttons - but that is thing - no buttons can be pressed for which some wiring did not exist already.

That faulty wiring, the chasms and cracks all appeared because while some were rightfully looking to prevent India from creating them - others were pretending to do so but busy creating conditions otherwise all because they could profit personally.
 

Signalian

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Whats wrong with ending f.a pass qouta in every sphere of civil life and hiring ms/PhD professionals to run executive branch instead of these b.a pass (mostly) retards?
Yes that is definitely required in burecracy, senate and parliament.
You cannot keep threatening the nation with a bogeyman and keep all the cookies to yourselves. Fatima jinnah or Bhutto didn't had that big of number of masses from middle, upper middle class supporting their cause ------ I.k have em .
IK has the letter too, thats extra 20% marks.

Actually its pretty much practical and need of the hour . In this day and age land force lacks the capability and operational awareness to formulate and execute any military campaign vis a vis air or naval force ------.
Yes, hopefully one day IA.

please get over this chorun of 5th Gen warfare and all that horse shit. You honestly think, they would indulge in these tactics when all it takes is a low ranked afisaaaaaar and u can see how wide the legs were spread (this approach is the one, ppl used thousands of years ago when the warfare generation horse shit wasnt even imagined) ... even a professional ***** cant stretch that wide. sorry for the language but i cant find a better way to put it...
between i always knew we had a few such toonts in top brass but seriously i am beginning to think the shit runs alot more deeper, than wat we thought previously. our at least the sane ones are equally guilty in giving the protective shield either in name of Institution ka waaqaaar and all such shitty logics... when in reality thats the only thing that getting damaged to the point of no return...
Nahi, Chankaya will run on tactics you provide, they are dumb effs themselves.
 

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