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TomCat111

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30 years no Arjun's inducted. If its a deficient system why induct 124 of them now? Obviously because the flaws have been ironed out.
GOI decided to induct 124 Arjuns in 1997. Please take a note it’s the same year in which IA was still insisting, the summer trials of 1997 indicated that the performance was below the acceptable standards. How the flaws that were there for 20 years were removed instantly, maybe you could enlighten us too? :eek:

Please observe how GlobalSecurity.org quoted IA regarding Arjun: “As of mid-1997 the list of faults after 20 years of development was not encouraging… Arjun in its present form will require increased maintenance time and efforts-says the Army. The Army accordingly expressed grave concern on the reliability and maintainability of MBT and pointed out that while the world over the trend was to reduce the maintenance time, it had increased with MBT Arjun... Summer trials of 1997 indicated that the performance was below the acceptable standards... Summer trials carried out in April 1997 on PPS-15... it was still below the acceptable standards. The major deficiencies pointed out in the summer trials of 1996 i.e. accuracy of gun at battle ranges, mission reliability, lethality of ammunition, containerisation of ammunition bin, emergency traverse etc continue to persist and were yet to be solved..” Read message 77, it has all the highlights.

If the CHIEF OF ARMY STAFF is to be believed, then the Arjun is a fine machine which PASSED all its trials, desert or otherwise. The government couldn't force the Arjun down the throats of the IA before what's changed now? The Israelis and Russians haven't worked on it for nothing.

Anyone with commonsense will tell you that inducting Arjuns at the same time IA was screaming it’s “performance was [still] below the acceptable standards” tantamount to shoving down IA’s throat. :army:
 

Neo

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Wouldn’t it be stupid to check others’ views when your own Army has shown its displeasure with these DODO pieces-of-junk and forced the Indian government to buy Russian tanks in huge quantities instead? If there is anyone you need to convince, it’s your own army who doesn’t want to touch these disasters-in-making with a 10 foot pole. :coffee:
Cliché!
Thats what I was thinking. :read:
 

Contrarian

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no point posting the numerous articles saying that all issues with arjun are rectified.

or by the minister saying that arjun will start production soon

or again that issues have been rectified by israeli help and 124 will be inducted as first batch.

or the simple fact that its not intended as the main stay of IA. That is the T-90S. Arjun is intended to be a small leading force, as a force multiplier with the base of T-90S's.
 

TomCat111

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the simple fact that its not intended as the main stay of IA. That is the T-90S. Arjun is intended to be a small leading force, as a force multiplier with the base of T-90S's.
:disappointed:

Why not? Why wouldn't India exploit to max the huge superiority of the Super/wonder tank?:shocked:
 

Keysersoze

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Probably because of unit cost.........

I have doubts about whether all the bugs have been ironed out. But I am thinking that the unit cost is probably the main reason for lack of mass orders.

If the PA can get a good tank breaker system (like Hellfires on Helos) then the whole point of the Arjun will be negated.:eek:
 

vnomad

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GOI decided to induct 124 Arjuns in 1997. Please take a note it’s the same year in which IA was still insisting, the summer trials of 1997 indicated that the performance was below the acceptable standards. How the flaws that were there for 20 years were removed instantly, maybe you could enlighten us too?
No tanks were inducted. Which means nothing was shoved down the throats of the IA. The deliveries have commenced very recently. The IA has received deliveries of 28 tanks(or maybe 22, I can't recall the exact number).

Please observe how GlobalSecurity.org quoted IA regarding Arjun:
1997. Almost a decade back. The DRDO has spent the last ten years working on the flaws.

Anyone with commonsense will tell you that inducting Arjuns at the same time IA was screaming it’s “performance was [still] below the acceptable standards” tantamount to shoving down IA’s throat.
No tanks were inducted when the performance was "below the acceptable standards".
If the PA can get a good tank breaker system (like Hellfires on Helos)
Along with helos.
 

Contrarian

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:disappointed:

Why not? Why wouldn't India exploit to max the huge superiority of the Super/wonder tank?:shocked:
1. Very Excessive unit cost. They cant afford to have ARJUN as its main tank. It is intended to be 30% of the total tank strength of India. With the rest being T-90S.

2. Its intended use as a force multiplier. Used in assaults in limited numbers leading with T-90 as the main backing. As its armour can withstand anything Pakistan has atm.It has spectacular armour. It can lead assaults easily.

Or giving backsupport, as it has an huge range and heavy shell, it can easily penetrate most armours, so it remains behind the T-90S's to shoot down enemy tanks at a range, while T-90S's go head to head.

Or used in limited numbers as front and back of the strike force, with the main bulk of tanks ie T-90S, protected.
 

TomCat111

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No tanks were inducted. Which means nothing was shoved down the throats of the IA. The deliveries have commenced very recently. The IA has received deliveries of 28 tanks(or maybe 22, I can't recall the exact number).
I apologize for leaving a post in plain text without any highlights, underlines and colors. I should have known better than expecting you to simply read and comprehend.

Let’s give it another try, but this time with highlights, underlines and colors. Read my comment again, it says, “GOI decided to induct 124 Arjuns in 1997. Please take a note it’s the same year in which IA was still insisting… that the performance was below the acceptable standards… Anyone with commonsense will tell you that inducting Arjuns at the same time IA was screaming it’s “performance was [still] below the acceptable standards” tantamount to shoving down IA’s throat.”

Please note that I have also reduced number of words, in order to remove any confusion you might be facing.:coffee:
 

TomCat111

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1. Very Excessive unit cost. They cant afford to have ARJUN as its main tank.
:woot:
And for some reason, mortals like me thought with the phenomenal economical growth and GOI’s coffers overflowing with cash, GOI could afford to (at least) fully equip its army with super/wonder tanks. Is the price tag of mere $5.2 million per copy too much to risk the safety of its gallantry soldiers in cheaper and substandard tanks when alternative of miracle tanks can be manufactured at home? Don’t IA deserve the best humanity has seen/Arjun, especially when $5.2 million is like pocket change for the Indians?:rolleyes1:

As its armour can withstand anything Pakistan has atm.
Another good reason to equip IA with only super/wonder tanks. Only fools would give its enemy a fighting chance by equipping it with less capable hardware, especially when its economy is booming.:shocked:
 

Keysersoze

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No tanks were inducted. Which means nothing was shoved down the throats of the IA. The deliveries have commenced very recently. The IA has received deliveries of 28 tanks(or maybe 22, I can't recall the exact number).


1997. Almost a decade back. The DRDO has spent the last ten years working on the flaws.


No tanks were inducted when the performance was "below the acceptable standards".

Along with helos.

Dude AH-1's can be upgraded to carry Hellfires. Plus the Rooivalk/Hellfire deal is in the offing. The thread where this has been discussed is below.........

http://www.pakistaniforces.com/forums/showthread.php?p=37433#post37433
 

Contrarian

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:woot:
And for some reason, mortals like me thought with the phenomenal economical growth and GOI’s coffers overflowing with cash, GOI could afford to (at least) fully equip its army with super/wonder tanks. Is the price tag of mere $5.2 million per copy too much to risk the safety of its gallantry soldiers in cheaper and substandard tanks when alternative of miracle tanks can be manufactured at home? Don’t IA deserve the best humanity has seen/Arjun, especially when $5.2 million is like pocket change for the Indians?:rolleyes1:



Another good reason to equip IA with only super/wonder tanks. Only fools would give its enemy a fighting chance by equipping it with less capable hardware, especially when its economy is booming.:shocked:
I wonder why the the United States ,is cutting orders of its F-22 planes. Dont they want they best against their enemy, save their pilots lives? The super/wonder planes that are the pinnacle of modern aviation, maybe just maybe its because of the PRICE.:cool:
 

Adux

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There is a chance of further order of 100 more F-22, They already have an previous order of 171 in place, after the resignation of Rumsfeld. It is always about the PRice and balance, Democracies are answerable to the people.
 

Adux

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:woot:
And for some reason, mortals like me thought with the phenomenal economical growth and GOI’s coffers overflowing with cash, GOI could afford to (at least) fully equip its army with super/wonder tanks. Is the price tag of mere $5.2 million per copy too much to risk the safety of its gallantry soldiers in cheaper and substandard tanks when alternative of miracle tanks can be manufactured at home? Don’t IA deserve the best humanity has seen/Arjun, especially when $5.2 million is like pocket change for the Indians?:rolleyes1:



Another good reason to equip IA with only super/wonder tanks. Only fools would give its enemy a fighting chance by equipping it with less capable hardware, especially when its economy is booming.:shocked:
Zraver and most online experts conclude that Arjun is a good tank,esp in the sub continent.Sarcasm is completly unwaranted for, Mods i have a stupid suggestion..lol... Maybe we should do away the smiley's, and yup it will make the board boring to look at, but the experts may find it serious enough.

Adu
 

Contrarian

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There is a chance of further order of 100 more F-22, They already have an previous order of 171 in place, after the resignation of Rumsfeld. It is always about the PRice and balance, Democracies are answerable to the people.
the congres was cutting funding for the F-22's mate.
It was initally thought the order will be for>300, now that has been reduced to 100 something. Sure they can buy more in the future, but as of now...its about price mate, what the country can afford, what it thinks is neccesary atm.
 

Adux

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the congres was cutting funding for the F-22's mate.
It was initally thought the order will be for>300, now that has been reduced to 100 something. Sure they can buy more in the future, but as of now...its about price mate, what the country can afford, what it thinks is neccesary atm.
true, but after rumsfeld resigned, Airforce has pushed for a further order of 100 F/A-22, it might pass through, along with new forwarded proposals for japanese F/A-22. Its being discussed a lot in all the forums, there was LA times and New York post articles on them.

Adu
 
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