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India-made automatic rifle production stuck in red tape

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Forum' started by JanjaWeed, Jan 11, 2015.

  1. JanjaWeed

    JanjaWeed ELITE MEMBER

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    A parliamentary panel recently wondered why India has not been able to produce a world-class automatic rifle but it appears that an advanced version of this has already been developed but is yet to see action as it is tangled in bureaucratic red tape.

    Parliament's standing committee on defence, in a report tabled in the winter session last month, said it was "shocking that even 53 years of expertise has not enabled DRDO to develop a world class basic product like a rifle".

    However, a advanced, deadlier version of the 5.56 mm INSAS (Indian Small Arms System) rifle, which has a greater kill capacity, has already been developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) but has not been inducted by the Indian Army as there are no official records of a demand being made for it, an official explained.

    "When the INSAS rifle was initially designed, the army wanted rifles with a lower kill capability. Based on that demand the 5.56 mm rifle was designed," a DRDO official told IANS, speaking on condition of anonymity.

    INSAS is a family of infantry weapons consisting of an assault rifle, a light machine gun and a carbine - all the same calibre.

    The official said the first demand for a smaller calibre rifle came in 1982, when the army wanted to replace the 7.62 mm SLR (self-loading rifle) that had been in use for over 30 years.

    The army, said the official, then wanted a rifle that would de-capacitate a solider instead of killing him.

    "A low killing capacity made sense because in war, if you kill a soldier you have deactivated only one person. But if a solider is injured, at least two other soldiers will come to his aid and thus three of the enemy will be deactivated," the official said.

    The DRDO developed the first prototype of the rifle in 1986. It was much lighter at 4.2 kg than the 7.62 mm SLR that weighed 5.7 kg, had a shorter barrel and could fire a three-bullet burst at a time compared to just one by the SLR.

    The rifle was inducted into service in the mid-1990s after replacing the 7.62 mm SLR.

    The rifle was used in the Kargil war but was prone to malfunctioning in the cold Himalayan conditions, getting jammed and its polymer magazine cracking.

    As the army started getting involved in close combat with terrorists and the requirement changed to guns with a higher kill capacity, the official said, the army sought an updatearound three years ago.

    "With the army now being involved in face-to-face fighting with terrorists, who are generally armed with AK-47 rifles, a high kill capacity is needed. The army asked DRDO to design a rifle to kill, and the enthusiastic scientists went on to modify the INSAS," the official said.

    He explained that the longer barrel would give the bullet higher speed and greater power of impact.

    "However, by the time the product was ready, and we approached the army around the end of 2013, we were told no such requisition was officially given," the official said.

    The official also defended the INSAS, claiming that the problems encountered during the Kargil war were manufacturing issues - but agreed that the rifle is now outdated and upgrades are needed.

    "The problems that came up during the Kargil war were quality related, and for that the ordnance factory (manufacturing it) is responsible. However the fact remains that the INSAS technology is now very old and upgradation is needed," he said.

    However, the upgrades of the INSAS, or a new rifle can happen only if army asks for it.

    "DRDO is working on other small calibre weapons, but a new rifle can be designed only when the army asks for it".

    Another DRDO scientist cited lack of working in close collaboration as the reason for the shortcomings in the delivery.

    "Between the time when we get a request and the time the product is ready after initial testing, the requirements change. If the army and DRDO work together, and we are updated about the change in requirements, the product can be simultaneously upgraded," the official told IANS.

    "For example India is now almost self-sufficient in radars because the navy and DRDO worked very closely on it," he added.

    Another DRDO official, meanwhile, added that other weapons and weapons system are being worked on, including a Joint Venture Protective Carbine (JVPC) or Modern Sub-Machine Carbine (MSMC) user trials of which are now underway.

    Another rifle under production is a Multi-Calibre Individual Weapon System (MCIWS) with three 5.56 mm, 6.8mm and 7.62 mm barrels.

    "A multi calibre weapon is also being worked on, which will have three barrels that can be changed within minutes, giving soldiers wider options," said the official. This rifle is expected to be ready for in-house trials by DRDO in another six-eight months.

    India-made automatic rifle production stuck in red tape - India Gazette
     
  2. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy ELITE MEMBER

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    Um, fair enough? Just because an updated version of the INSAS is out there doesn't mean the IA has to adopt it (although they have adopted the latest version of the INSAS over the years). The article doesn't say exactly what INSAS version they are referring to, perhaps it is the Excalibur. Why would the IA be interested in upgraded INSAS now they are looking to replace it?

    What the IA is now waiting for is the MCIWS that is all, non-story really.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  3. Agent Smith

    Agent Smith BANNED

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    what assault rifle? plz post pics.
     
  4. Zarvan

    Zarvan ELITE MEMBER

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    The question is How many of these deadlier version of INSAS have been produced and tested ?
     
  5. Indian Patriot

    Indian Patriot BANNED

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    How reliable is this INSAS modified version?
     
  6. Chanakya's_Chant

    Chanakya's_Chant SENIOR MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    INSAS Standard Rifle - It is a gas operated assault rifle. It can be fired in single round or three-round burst mode. A new model with black furniture incorporating full-auto mode is also being introduced. A telescopic sight or a passive night sight can be mounted on it. It can take NATO standard 5.56 × 45 mm SS109 and M193 ammunition. It comes with a bayonet. It has a mount point for the ARDE 40 mm Under Barrel Grenade Launcher, along with a gas-block for launching grenades and grenade iron-sights. The flash suppressor has a blank-firing adaptor. It also has a foldable butt version. Current generation rifles being made are outfitted with black plastic furniture with some improvements in its construction.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Kalantak and Excalibur - Both are lighter versions of the INSAS, designed for close quarter combat. They both have foldable butts and picatinny rails to mount standard sights or opto-electronic instruments.

    [​IMG]

    LMG - The LMG differs from the AR in possessing a longer and heavier barrel with revised rifling, and a bipod. The LMG version uses 30 round magazines and can also accept the 20 round INSAS AR magazine. This model fires in semi and full-auto. Current generation LMGs being made are outfitted with black plastic furniture with some improvements in its construction. It also has a foldable-butt version.

    Maybe it's the LMG? It was the latest one in the series!

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Indian Patriot

    Indian Patriot BANNED

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    It is a photoshop and very bad one at it.
     
  8. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy ELITE MEMBER

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    LMG has been in service for more than a decade now so no, it's not that.
     
  9. Echo_419

    Echo_419 ELITE MEMBER

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    did you miss this
    'Another rifle under production is a Multi-Calibre Individual Weapon System (MCIWS) with three 5.56 mm, 6.8mm and 7.62 mm barrels' :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:
     
  10. Indian Patriot

    Indian Patriot BANNED

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    "multi-caliber" is a disaster in making. The logistical strain it will put is horrendous
     
  11. Echo_419

    Echo_419 ELITE MEMBER

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    Nope man you are wrong
     
  12. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy ELITE MEMBER

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    On the contrary, having a common rifle firing different calibres will ease the logistics. Right now the IA has to supply both AK and INSAS parts (along with their ammo) to the relevant units, having the MCIWS means they would only need the logistics and support infrastructure for a common rifle.
    No I noticed that and that last point makes the entire article up till then moot.
     
  13. ashok mourya

    ashok mourya BANNED

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    DRDO MCIWS
    MCIWS-3.jpeg
     
  14. Saquib

    Saquib FULL MEMBER

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    If PAK army has captured INSAS rifles - perhaps someone from the army who has fired the rifle ca give their views on the rifle?
     
  15. Echo_419

    Echo_419 ELITE MEMBER

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    I guess the army does not want to waste more money on a better INSAS version & wants to go straight for MICWIS system @sancho your thoughts