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India Developing, but still a long way to go

anant_s

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From what I understand @anant_s to operate at the top speed of these TALGO carriages (200km/h) would require the existing WAPs to be running flat out and even operating at just below this speed (say 180km/h) would be incredibly taxing for these WAPs over prolonged periods thus the TALGO 250 trainsets are rather essential if the carriages are coming so as to utilise them fully.

From what you say, this is the very first step in a long road to get these trains operational as the trainsets themselves would have to come to trail in India next and then operate as a full train with the carriages.
two things here
  1. As of now only WAP5 can run at 150+ kph and as such there is no problem to run flat out at even 180-200 kph for it. Drivers though would require additional tests and training. Trivandrum Rajdhani runs a distance of ~500 kms at 130 kph without stoppage between Kota and Vadodra. Similar example for Duronto express are also present. So no issue with loco endurance.
  2. Distributed power is a universally accepted method for HST. Talgo trains are no different. Its 2 power cars provide about same power as a WAP7. but these owing to different bogie (meaning under carriage, wheel and suspension) design and unique tilting mechanism, allows the train to negotiate tighter curves at speed, without slowing down. if u recall ur mechanics lectures, objects moving on a curve have tendency to get thrown out tangentially. This is adjusted by either reducing the linear velocity or increasing the radius of curve. Now we dont want to compromise on speed, so next thing is make the curve gentler (increase radius), which again requires track modification, that we dont want (it adds to cost). Trains that can tilt in such a way that outer wheel is on a higher elevation, is another method of achieving the same and this is exactly what Spanish design is.
coming back to traction power, these trials are basically to see how train performs. once satisfied, suitable modifications in power car will be done along with staff training to run these trains in original configuration. Indian locomotives will not be required.
The train in trial could still have run with its power car, but that would have meant more time to allow meeting above requirements. By putting a proven locomotive, IR has bypassed the same and at the same time allowed speed trials at required speed to go ahead. This data can now allow IR to make decision including evaluation of safety aspects.
 

patentneer

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:offtopic:
  • ...office space has consistently driven commercial real estate growth in Bengaluru that crossed a milestone in mid 2013 by becoming the first Indian office hub to join the global club for 100 million sq. ft. office markets.
(c) http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...st-quarter/articleshow/52631598.cms?prtpage=1

Mumbai



(c)

(c)

Calcutta
(c) (c) (c) (c) (c) (c)

Hyderabad






  • Finally, Indian cities are going vertical. Interesting to note it's the suburban areas that are going vertical.
With 10 yrs. of Modi govt., and with power-roads-metro reaching out to said 'burbs; Delhi-Mumbai's Gurgaon-Noida-Navi-Mumbai have already set examples with metro and rail based mass transport.
 
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patentneer

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two things here
  1. As of now only WAP5 can run at 150+ kph and as such there is no problem to run flat out at even 180-200 kph for it. Drivers though would require additional tests and training. Trivandrum Rajdhani runs a distance of ~500 kms at 130 kph without stoppage between Kota and Vadodra. Similar example for Duronto express are also present. So no issue with loco endurance.
  2. Distributed power is a universally accepted method for HST. Talgo trains are no different. Its 2 power cars provide about same power as a WAP7. but these owing to different bogie (meaning under carriage, wheel and suspension) design and unique tilting mechanism, allows the train to negotiate tighter curves at speed, without slowing down. if u recall ur mechanics lectures, objects moving on a curve have tendency to get thrown out tangentially. This is adjusted by either reducing the linear velocity or increasing the radius of curve. Now we dont want to compromise on speed, so next thing is make the curve gentler (increase radius), which again requires track modification, that we dont want (it adds to cost). Trains that can tilt in such a way that outer wheel is on a higher elevation, is another method of achieving the same and this is exactly what Spanish design is.
coming back to traction power, these trials are basically to see how train performs. once satisfied, suitable modifications in power car will be done along with staff training to run these trains in original configuration. Indian locomotives will not be required.
The train in trial could still have run with its power car, but that would have meant more time to allow meeting above requirements. By putting a proven locomotive, IR has bypassed the same and at the same time allowed speed trials at required speed to go ahead. This data can now allow IR to make decision including evaluation of safety aspects.
^^^
Quick zinger, having grown up around HSR (EU TGV lines), one thing about HSR's and semi HSR's in India's case that pop's in the mind is how needle straight the lines are, so the question is what curves. Bombay-Amdavad, what curve? Delhi-Agra, Pune-Mumbai no curves? So what is it with these pendulum tech. style stuff and all the talk about curves, or is it a case of applying Spanish Fly where Snake Oil's run it's course?
 

anant_s

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so the question is what curves. Bombay-Amdavad, what curve? Delhi-Agra, Pune-Mumbai no curves?
I would suggest you travel on one to three lines you've mentioned. New Delhi Agra (more specifically New Delhi Faridabad) line is perhaps the straightest alignment, but Mumbai Pune line has to negotiate Shayadri mountains and presently houses the steepest gradient on IR (1:37) in Kasara Ghats. Needless to say mountain ranges necessitates several tight curves.
M-P.jpg


Similarly, Mumbai Vadodara section is a place where a narrow stretch of land between sea and mountains demands rail lines to be laid in close alignment with mountain requires sharp curves. Similar alignment is required in Dahod Ratlam Section and further down Dara Pass Kota Section. All these sections are part of Mumbai New Delhi Main line, where it is proposed to run Talgo trains.

As for TGV lines you've mentioned, new tracks are required to be laid even in India, which shall be straighter and in most places elevated.
 

Abingdonboy

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@anant_s some quick questions bro:

1) could you please give a quick overview of the IR's current (and future)WAP and WDG fleet?
2) what % of the IR network is set to be electrified by 2020?
 

Abingdonboy

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@anant_s no mention of those 12,000 HP Prima-II?

+ what is Gujarat playing at? Only 17% electrified in Modi's "developed" state? Himachal Pradesh at 5% is just embarrassing.

++any idea how much KM of railway is being added every year to the IR network?
 
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That is a very 'telling' map!

From this map, it is very easy to identify where exactly Karnataka lies! Almost ZERO miles of Electrified Railway lines for the entire state. What's even more frightening is that it doesn't feature even in 2020 "VISION" map.

This is what I was talking about at the other thread! @Rajaraja Chola
Regarding? I dont exactly remember... :what::undecided:

But I would support updating infrastructure for current lines, before starting new lines, except for the North East. We can wait even 10 years for adding announcing new projects, when current projects and financing for them gets over.
 

MST

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@anant_s no mention of those 12,000 HP Prima-II?

+ what is Gujarat playing at? Only 17% electrified in Modi's "developed" state? Himachal Pradesh at 5% is just embarrassing.

++any idea how much KM of railway is being added every year to the IR network?
Just goes to show that that all Railway ministers in the last couple of decades were from UP or Bihar or WB.
 

kadamba-warrior

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Regarding? I dont exactly remember... :what::undecided:

But I would support updating infrastructure for current lines, before starting new lines, except for the North East. We can wait even 10 years for adding announcing new projects, when current projects and financing for them gets over.
I think the thread was about Bullet trains and we were discussing how full all the trains between Blr and Chennai were any time of the day or any day of the year.
 

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