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India-China Air Force Clash: IAF Pilot Explains Why A Superior J-20 Stealth Jet Will Avoid A Skirmish With Rafales, Su-30MIs

IblinI

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tu beta rehny bus your radars can not see its pakistani drone or IAF MI-17 at 27 feb . your radars are better for killing own men .

what you see on radar that was Air China Airbus A330-300 daily flight CA945 from Beijing to islamabad :lol: not j20
You are wasting your time on a guy whom still believed Covid-19 is fake and created by media and govt.
 

dbc

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You are biased against India, and will see it different.....and you are ok.
bias? these are the facts:

1- An IAF Mig-21 was shot down by an AMRAAM
2. The IAF could not prevent the PAF from dropping ordnance on an Indian military base.
3. Regardless of the circumstances the IAF retreated that day - fact.
 

redtom

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Air Chief Marshal B. S Dhanoa recently said the Chinese Air Force was using the Russian Su-30 and Su-35 fighters while facing the US threat in the South China Sea, and not their indigenous fighters.

Was he taiking about the spy planes the Americans converted from slow-moving airliners?
 

crankthatskunk

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And if this j20 of theirs was really superior they wouldn't be buying su35s from Russia. This clearly shows that Chinese Jian is junk.
The whole world has now admitted. Rafale are world beaters. Ever since it is acquired by India, no fighter jet in the world can even touch it.

We just need another 27 Feb 2019 to turn it in to junk. :sarcastic: :sarcastic:

Modi would say" Agar F 35 hota to nateeja kuch aur hota!
 

IblinI

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And if this j20 of theirs was really superior they wouldn't be buying su35s from Russia. This clearly shows that Chinese Jian is junk.
Covid is fake,right? Not expecting you to understand the logic behind that, it's too much for you to comprehend.
 

Goritoes

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bias? these are the facts:

1- An IAF Mig-21 was shot down by an AMRAAM
2. The IAF could not prevent the PAF from dropping ordnance on an Indian military base.
3. Regardless of the circumstances the IAF retreated that day - fact.
They claim Su-30 dodge 5 AMRAM I mean DAAAAAAAAA FuQQQQQQQQQQQQQ:crazy:
 

SQ8

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They claim Su-30 dodge 5 AMRAM I mean DAAAAAAAAA FuQQQQQQQQQQQQQ:crazy:
Frankly I wish they never do - this egoism complex that Indians can never get out of for their constant need of validation as “the best” or not inferior to whoever ruled the area since the first foreign invasion is what keeps Pakistan and China at an advantage.

So long as humility escapes them, they are weak even with F-22s. When they were humble and respectful of their enemy as in 1971 - they made an example of military victories.
 

Goritoes

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Frankly I wish they never do - this egoism complex that Indians can never get out of for their constant need of validation as “the best” or not inferior to whoever ruled the area since the first foreign invasion is what keeps Pakistan and China at an advantage.

So long as humility escapes them, they are weak even with F-22s. When they were humble and respectful of their enemy as in 1971 - they made an example of military victories.
Their superiority complex has turned them blind, they still believe that Pakistan can not retaliate or hit them hard, despite them losing a lot on 27th, but hey as long as they keep this behavior it's good for Pakistan in any future conflict.
 

siegecrossbow

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Covid is fake,right? Not expecting you to understand the logic behind that, it's too much for you to comprehend.
If COVID is fake how can they blame bay eating Chinese for spreading COVID to the world? I don’t understand their logic.
 

arjunk

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a) no MKI is shot down on that day (it is impossible to hide a fallen aircraft in india). India is very open society, with most of liberal media looking something to beat Modi in an election year. Liberal media would have had a field day with a fallen aircraft.
b) one pak aircraft is down on that day (not sure how much abhinandan contributed to it).
c) India does not give away unearned medals to it's pilots. Abhinandan was in that theater when pak aircraft went down. Hence, he is given the award.
d) we don't feel any shame on abhinandan being shot down. He is courageous, done his duty and my hero (he is from my neighboring state which makes me even prouder).
a) It is very much possible to hide it in the sparsely populated mountains of Kashmir with little to no internet or camera phones. Many locals already admitted to seeing a flaker going down.
b) No Pakistani aircraft have gone down that day. Abhinandan did not fire a single missile and your IAF only claims that he shot down an F-16.
c) India has a history of exaggerating enemy casualties (when did a few trees become 350 terrorists?) so it's hard to believe them.
d) Good on you, but Abhinandan surrendered and IAF failed to achieve a single objective that day. Celebrating this is like Pakistanis celebrating the fall of Dhaka.
 

GumNaam

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Apparently he doesn’t understand the difference between “offer” and “accepted offer”. Fact of the matter is China has not purchased any additional Su-35s since the last of the 24 were delivered in 2018. They found the avionics and missiles to be wanting during training against the J-10C.
That is factually incorrect. SU35s are upto par with any western counterpart, which is why Egypt is getting them in spite of having rafales. But remember that the SU35s are 4th+ generation fighters that will naturally won't be at par with anything 5th generation. But the J20 is a true 5th Gen fighter with avionics to match the 5th Gen requirements. A number of those avionics have been integrated on other Chinese platforms like the J10 while the J20 was still in testing. The SU35s were a stop gap measure until the J20 production started.
 

siegecrossbow

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iaf pilot thakur just took a shit on his own credibility right there!
Yes if that is the IAF’s combat philosophy then not even changing the leadership would do much. If you tackle a problem with the wrong basic approach, you’ll never get to the solution no matter how hard you try. This is a lesson I’ve learned doing geometry proofs in middle school.
 

thinkingcap81

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Thats idiotic of either the member or the IAF - take your pick. Why would you have restrictive SOPs the DAY after you attacked? Are we to assume that the IAF from top to bottom are complete goofballs who can’t understand the basic paradigm of expecting retaliation after the attack. The member is clearly either not informed or like all toeing the Bhakt line lying to fellow Indians and keeping the delusion going.

There was abject failure at all levels of IAF leadership from the chief down to the sector air defense commander who made the decision to shoot down the Mi-17 leading to the fratricide. It all points to poor training and expectations from these battlefield leaders who I assume are all “yes men” appointments with the true fighter leaders all sidelined for making noise against such complacency or leaving the IAF for greener pastures.

Again, I reiterate for the consumption of all Indian members and IAF fans - there are extremely experienced, knowledge and natural leaders and warfighters within the IAF who can and do perform. But it is also a side effect of political interference in military merit that the current Indian government has initiated that a large percentage of these will be sidelined simply because of speaking up.

27th February also exposed massive chinks in the Indian Air Defense armor that indicate a lot of expensive toys that don’t work well either in the actual environment and each other or the methods to make them work well were not tested in a battle environment.
I had a feeling many years ago that the IAF would come away with a bloody nose from the PAF not because of a majority of its pilots but because of the very way it was training its squadron leadership. Many Indians under the purported slight of ego went ballistic at the red flag video of the USAF colonel who plainly pointed out how they set up win-win scenarios for themselves during exercises with the USAF but performed poorly in an environment with a different and more equal scenario.

When you train thinking victory is easy with superior equipment and your enemy is beneath you - like many Indians do, you get 26th(botched strike) and 27th( military embarrassment). When you train to fight outgunned,outnumbered and assume your enemy is superior - you get what the PAF did and what the IDFAF did and continues to do.

The IAF is well placed to change its attitudes from this cultural misappropriation of superiority masking inferiority and focus on every man a tiger philosophy. Only then will it truly be the force to reckon with and dominate not just its western border but also its northern one.

As a reference, they can look to the period from December 65 to December 71 as an example of how to change mindsets and train as an effective fighting force.
Even if, as you say, IAF is less competent than PAF, it will be a bad thing as long as India is not significantly above Pakistan in terms of economy, GDP per capita, technology, human resource indicators etc. If India goes much above Pak pretty soon then these factors will be sufficient to cease any military comparisons. But this state of affairs will be pretty hard to achieve.

Case in point is China. Their capabilities are so vast compared to India that no longer is any sane person talking about competition, we're just thinking whether we'll get there, and how soon (except for the horrible levels of political freedoms and some important human rights that the Chinese have). Even if, as Indians and Paks like to think, the Chinese are poor soldiers, their economy and technological capabilities are just overwhelming for us Indians.

But yes, i don't know how much the armed forces are being made incompetent by the Modi GoI, not that Congress or others were particularly interested in making the Indian armed forces strong - they just made it strong enough for Pak Army to change stance from offense to offensive-defensive or just plain defensive. China was out of the question. We were and are just dozing.
Frankly I wish they never do - this egoism complex that Indians can never get out of for their constant need of validation as “the best” or not inferior to whoever ruled the area since the first foreign invasion is what keeps Pakistan and China at an advantage.

So long as humility escapes them, they are weak even with F-22s. When they were humble and respectful of their enemy as in 1971 - they made an example of military victories.
This seems to be very valid for the Pakistan Army. Are there still takers for the martial race theory? The martial race fantasy is less valid in the modern context where you need more thinking people in charge of local operations. Just running with a sword towards the enemy isn't enough.
 
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SQ8

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Even if, as you say, IAF is less competent than PAF, it will be a bad thing as long as India is not significantly above Pakistan in terms of economy, GDP per capita, technology, human resource indicators etc. If India goes much above Pak pretty soon then these factors will be sufficient to cease any military comparisons. But this state of affairs will be pretty hard to achieve.

Case in point is China. Their capabilities are so vast compared to India that no longer is any sane person talking about competition, we're just thinking whether we'll get there, and how soon (except for the horrible levels of political freedoms and some important human rights that the Chinese have). Even if, as Indians and Paks like to think, the Chinese are poor soldiers, their economy and technological capabilities are just overwhelming for us Indians.

But yes, i don't know how much the armed forces are being made incompetent by the Modi GoI, not that Congress or others were particularly interested in making the Indian armed forces strong - they just made it strong enough for Pak Army to change stance from offense to offensive-defensive or just plain defensive. China was out of the question. We were and are just dozing.

This seems to be very valid for the Pakistan Army. Are there still takers for the martial race theory? The martial race fantasy is less valid in the modern context where you need more thinking people in charge of local operations. Just running with a sword towards the enemy isn't enough.
It doesn’t matter about what the actual enemy is, you train assuming they are equal or better.
You assume the Chinese are as competent or better than your pilots and will outnumber you in most straight fights - so what tactics and assymetric strategies does the IAF apply to make this superior enemy fight on its terms.

Erich Hartmann who is the world’s most celebrated fighter ace had a great point - it is that first shock and awe that wins you a fight and then the enemy crumbles - superior or inferior becomes less relevant . Whether it was the Styx SSM coming out of nowhere to sink Pakistan Navy ships, An Amraam hitting or even just shell shocking a Su-30MKI and the Mirages seeing 10+ fighters in front of them, or a hypothetical strike by a combination of land and air launched Brahmos crippling a Chinese command center in Aksai.

As for the martial race thing, it also shows how outdated Indian understanding of today’s Pakistani military mindset is. @PanzerKiel
 

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