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India Army has over 1193 T-90 tanks. Another 464 by March 2025

Smarana Mitra

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Though 1657 is decent number for country the size of India needs actually 2500 of T90 level tanks to protect its long borders..... We shouldn't forget T72 though very good today in this decade maybe in next decade will need replacement.....
Actually T72 is meant for cheaper production cost. India does not intend to retire them and in fact is also developing new technology like engines for them. All tanks need not be heavy and powerful
 

vishwambhar

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Actually T72 is meant for cheaper production cost. India does not intend to retire them and in fact is also developing new technology like engines for them. All tanks need not be heavy and powerful
Good to know we don't intend to retire T72 anytime soon....
 

iLION12345_1

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Not true. TOT means technology like the exact procedure to alloy the metals, the exact machinery to create engines, exact chemical composition and method to produce them for ERA etc. In this case, however, India got only design while technology like engine, fire control was developed by DRDO.

Here is the proof that engine for T90 & T72 was developed by India:

Earlier, India used imported engine whereas from 2018, India has developed its own engine and hence is self sufficient. Similarly, India used French thermals earlier but is developing its own thermals now, using the technology it developed for NAG ATGM & MPATGM.


No, Both Al Khalid & T90 are similar. There is no edge. However, Pakistani Al Khalid has edge over T72.



Indian tanks have 2nd gen ERA because it is indigenous. Russia refused to give TOT for its ERA and hence India used the ERA which it developed in DRDO. Pakistan uses imported ERA and hence though it is better, it can't be mass manufactured and has to be imported everytime.

India has purchased MANGO rounds but also has developed indigenous APFSDS which can penetrate 700mm armour and displayed in several weapon exhibitions. It is inferior to the 800mm penetrators of Russia but it is much cheaper to make and better than MANGO round.

Indian T90 is focusing on full indigenisation with sufficient modernisation instead of going for imported modern solutions. Also, tanks are low priority for India as any modern ammunition can easily bust tanks. Tanks are only a 2nd line of offense after air and naval offence. Tanks only are for leading ground invasion which means it does not need cutting edge upgrades. So, India does not spend on 3rd gen ERA or other fancy items. Nevertheless, Indian tanks stand at the same level as AlKhalids for all practical purposes. T72, however, is not as good but it is not the frontline tank and hence does not matter
Again, false, Indian T72 upgrades uses FCS and subsystems from Polish PT-91M Tank (Polish SKO-1T DRAWA-T fire control system/thermal imager supplied by the Polish PCO/Cenzi) . They are NOT indigenous, it’s a polish design, modified for use and production in India.
The FCS in Indian T90 is ESSA. Which is NOT an Indian FCS. It is French-Russian in origin, only license produced in India. The thermals in it are last Gen French thermals. Not indigenous, Pakistan is already producing 3rd Gen French thermals locally, the Thermals in the ESSA system are Second Gen Catherine FC.
The FCS in Arjun is not indigenous either, it’s from French SAGEM company. India has yet to use its indigenous FCS in any tank, they say it will be present in Arjun MK-1A. Pakistan has been using its indigenous FCS on AK-1 since 2014.

The ERA on Indian T90 is NOT indigenous, it’s Russian Kontakt-5 ERA made under license in India. None of the stuff you mentioned india has “made” is operational on any of its tanks except some parts ofArjun. Pakistan had Kontatk-5 since the 90s on its UDs. DRDOs “indigenous” ERA is only used on Arjun and modernized T72 and is still based on the explosive tiles of Kontakt 5, hence it is still a second Gen ERA. Also Pakistan does make its own indigenous ERA. AORAK is Pakistani ERA, which we have been making since late 2000s, AORAK 1 was second Gen and the current AORAK-2 used on Al-Zarrar, Al Khalid/Al-Khalid-1 and Type 85 tanks is third Gen ERA. It is mass produced in Pakistan. It’s better than both K-5 and DRDO ERA as they are second Gen. cost isn’t an issue for Pakistan then How is it an issue for India?

The engine in Indian T90,T72 and Arjun are NOT indigenous. Indian T90S still uses the same Russian engines It came with (India cannot change those without Russian permission). The engine in Indian modernized T72 is from Poland. And the engine in Arjun is from MTU, it’s German, the engine india has developed itself is not present on any Indian tank currently in service.

Indian locally made APFSDS on Arjun can only penetrate 300MM/0 Deg. Which was standard for ammunition in the 70s, the “700mm” round has not even been fully developed yet and will not be usable on all the older T72 due to their FCS not permitting it, which is half of the Indian fleet, and it is unlikely it will be used on T90 as well, which is why India is buying mango. Arjun is in such little numbers that if that round ever reaches service (unlikely because arjuns gun is obsolete rifled gun), it won’t make a difference. Indias standard round will stay Mango for the foreseeable future, which is bad, since it cannot penetrate Al-Khalid even without ERA, while Al-Khalid can easily penetrate T90S.

Also Al-Khalid-1 has many advantages over T90, it has better thermals, better armor, better engine, better FCS, much better ammunition, better technology and so on. The baseline Al-Khalid is closer to the Indian T90, but is still superior in Armor, ammunition and mobility (as it uses the same stuff from AK-1). Indian T90S are far inferior to AK in those regards, let alone VT-4, and on top of that AK is indigenous and not a foreign tank.

You keep saying “India is developing this and that” but none of it has come yet, even on the Arjun. That’s called mismanagement of industry, tanks are never second line, that’s just an excuse you would use to make up for the faults.

In the India-Pakistan environment tanks are as useful as ever, to say “any modern ammunition can bust a tank” is to say “our tanks aren’t properly Defended because we won’t upgrade their armor or give them better APS systems”. It’s not that india doesn’t care about its tanks because they’re not useful, it does that because there’s incompetency in the military. What good did your Air Force and navy do to you against China and Pakistan in the recent conflicts? It was all army and it was all tanks in use, and Pakistani/Chinese tanks are much superior to Indias. You brush off “fancy 3rd Gen ERA and new ammunition” as if it makes little difference, but in an actual conflict an Indian T90 could be knocked out by an Al-Zarrar because the Al-Zarrar has the same Gen of thermals, better Gen of ERA and much better ammunition.
 
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Smarana Mitra

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Again, false, Indian T72 upgrades uses FCS and subsystems from Polish PT-91M Tank (Polish SKO-1T DRAWA-T fire control system/thermal imager supplied by the Polish PCO/Cenzi) . They are NOT indigenous, it’s a polish design, modified for use and production in India.
The FCS in Indian T90 is ESSA. Which is NOT an Indian FCS. It is French-Russian in origin, only license produced in India. The thermals in it are last Gen French thermals. Not indigenous, Pakistan is already producing 3rd Gen French thermals locally, the Thermals in the ESSA system are Second Gen Catherine FC.
The FCS in Arjun is not indigenous either, it’s from French SAGEM company. India has yet to use its indigenous FCS in any tank, they say it will be present in Arjun MK-1A. Pakistan has been using its indigenous FCS on AK-1 since 2014.

The ERA on Indian T90 is NOT indigenous, it’s Russian Kontakt-5 ERA made under license in India. None of the stuff you mentioned india has “made” is operational on any of its tanks except some parts ofArjun. Pakistan had Kontatk-5 since the 90s on its UDs. DRDOs “indigenous” ERA is only used on Arjun and modernized T72 and is still based on the explosive tiles of Kontakt 5, hence it is still a second Gen ERA. Also Pakistan does make its own indigenous ERA. AORAK is Pakistani ERA, which we have been making since late 2000s, AORAK 1 was second Gen and the current AORAK-2 used on Al-Zarrar, Al Khalid/Al-Khalid-1 and Type 85 tanks is third Gen ERA. It is mass produced in Pakistan. It’s better than both K-5 and DRDO ERA as they are second Gen. cost isn’t an issue for Pakistan then How is it an issue for India?

The engine in Indian T90,T72 and Arjun are NOT indigenous. Indian T90S still uses the same Russian engines It came with (India cannot change those without Russian permission). The engine in Indian modernized T72 is from Poland. And the engine in Arjun is from MTU, it’s German, the engine india has developed itself is not present on any Indian tank currently in service.

Indian locally made APFSDS on Arjun can only penetrate 300MM/0 Deg. Which was standard for ammunition in the 70s, the “700mm” round has not even been fully developed yet and will not be usable on all the older T72 due to their FCS not permitting it, which is half of the Indian fleet, and it is unlikely it will be used on T90 as well, which is why India is buying mango. Arjun is in such little numbers that if that round ever reaches service (unlikely because arjuns gun is obsolete rifled gun), it won’t make a difference. Indias standard round will stay Mango for the foreseeable future, which is bad, since it cannot penetrate Al-Khalid even without ERA, while Al-Khalid can easily penetrate T90S.

Also Al-Khalid-1 has many advantages over T90, it has better thermals, better armor, better engine, better FCS, much better ammunition, better technology and so on. The baseline Al-Khalid is closer to the Indian T90, but is still superior in Armor, ammunition and mobility (as it uses the same stuff from AK-1). Indian T90S are far inferior to AK in those regards, let alone VT-4, and on top of that AK is indigenous and not a foreign tank.

You keep saying “India is developing this and that” but none of it has come yet, even on the Arjun. That’s called mismanagement of industry, tanks are never second line, that’s just an excuse you would use to make up for the faults.

In the India-Pakistan environment tanks are as useful as ever, to say “any modern ammunition can bust a tank” is to say “our tanks aren’t properly Defended because we won’t upgrade their armor or give them better APS systems”. It’s not that india doesn’t care about its tanks because they’re not useful, it does that because there’s incompetency in the military. What good did your Air Force and navy do to you against China and Pakistan in the recent conflicts? It was all army and it was all tanks in use, and Pakistani/Chinese tanks are much superior to Indias. You brush off “fancy 3rd Gen ERA and new ammunition” as if it makes little difference, but in an actual conflict an Indian T90 could be knocked out by an Al-Zarrar because the Al-Zarrar has the same Gen of thermals, better Gen of ERA and much better ammunition.
Firstly, you have different definition of indigenous. What I call as indigenous is what is manufactured in India without any imported components. So, even though the ERA, thermals are of foreign design, they are indigenous as India has mastered the technology to manufacture in India without any import. The license manufacturing does not mean India imports components. Tehre are different types of license - India has fully obtained the technology and hence can manufacture all its basic tank needs using its own inhouse production. Pakistan imports and assembles it.

Also, the APFSDS is meant for T90 as it has 120mm caliber, not 125mm caliber. This is only suitable for T90 and T72, not Arjun as Arjun ahs 120mm rifled gun. Rifled guns can't use AAPFSDS anyways and hence India will not develop APFSDS for it. Here is DRDO official article claiming that 40k rounds are annually produced: https://www.drdo.gov.in/fsapds-ammunition
1620293553177.png


India is developing Mk2 version with 550mm penetration at 2km from 500mm at 2km. India has developed it last year and has even placed an order for it. To develop 700mm penetrator, India needs Depleted Uranium sabot which India does not want to use. You are using outdated information when talking of 300mm penetration. In fact, Arjun tank has no APFSDS capability due to its rifled bore (rifled bore can't fire APFSDS).

India uses Kanchan ERA, not Russian ERA. India keeps upgrading the ERA technology too but only the new production variant gets the new ERA as older armour is not replaced. India has indigenised the thermals and is currently upgrading to latest version of thermals. Even there, India has achieved high amount of self sufficiency.
 

Huffal

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Firstly, you have different definition of indigenous. What I call as indigenous is what is manufactured in India without any imported components. So, even though the ERA, thermals are of foreign design, they are indigenous as India has mastered the technology to manufacture in India without any import. The license manufacturing does not mean India imports components. Tehre are different types of license - India has fully obtained the technology and hence can manufacture all its basic tank needs using its own inhouse production. Pakistan imports and assembles it.

Also, the APFSDS is meant for T90 as it has 120mm caliber, not 125mm caliber. This is only suitable for T90 and T72, not Arjun as Arjun ahs 120mm rifled gun. Rifled guns can't use AAPFSDS anyways and hence India will not develop APFSDS for it. Here is DRDO official article claiming that 40k rounds are annually produced: https://www.drdo.gov.in/fsapds-ammunition
View attachment 741133

India is developing Mk2 version with 550mm penetration at 2km from 500mm at 2km. India has developed it last year and has even placed an order for it. To develop 700mm penetrator, India needs Depleted Uranium sabot which India does not want to use. You are using outdated information when talking of 300mm penetration. In fact, Arjun tank has no APFSDS capability due to its rifled bore (rifled bore can't fire APFSDS).

India uses Kanchan ERA, not Russian ERA. India keeps upgrading the ERA technology too but only the new production variant gets the new ERA as older armour is not replaced. India has indigenised the thermals and is currently upgrading to latest version of thermals. Even there, India has achieved high amount of self sufficiency.
Firstly, you have different definition of indigenous. What I call as indigenous is what is manufactured in India without any imported components. So, even though the ERA, thermals are of foreign design, they are indigenous as India has mastered the technology to manufacture in India without any import. The license manufacturing does not mean India imports components. Tehre are different types of license - India has fully obtained the technology and hence can manufacture all its basic tank needs using its own inhouse production. Pakistan imports and assembles it.

Also, the APFSDS is meant for T90 as it has 120mm caliber, not 125mm caliber. This is only suitable for T90 and T72, not Arjun as Arjun ahs 120mm rifled gun. Rifled guns can't use AAPFSDS anyways and hence India will not develop APFSDS for it. Here is DRDO official article claiming that 40k rounds are annually produced: https://www.drdo.gov.in/fsapds-ammunition
View attachment 741133

India is developing Mk2 version with 550mm penetration at 2km from 500mm at 2km. India has developed it last year and has even placed an order for it. To develop 700mm penetrator, India needs Depleted Uranium sabot which India does not want to use. You are using outdated information when talking of 300mm penetration. In fact, Arjun tank has no APFSDS capability due to its rifled bore (rifled bore can't fire APFSDS).

India uses Kanchan ERA, not Russian ERA. India keeps upgrading the ERA technology too but only the new production variant gets the new ERA as older armour is not replaced. India has indigenised the thermals and is currently upgrading to latest version of thermals. Even there, India has achieved high amount of self sufficiency.
'Rifled guns can't use AAPFSDS anyways and hence India will not develop APFSDS for it.'


Ahahaahahahahah

'India is developing Mk2 version with 550mm penetration at 2km from 500mm at 2km. India has developed it last year and has even placed an order for it.'

1) we made the naiza du with the same penetration in the early 2000s.

2) it won't be enough to knock out our front line tanks

3) 600mm is the average for armour pen of ao modern day apfsds round, so it's outdated even by today's standards.
 

iLION12345_1

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Firstly, you have different definition of indigenous. What I call as indigenous is what is manufactured in India without any imported components. So, even though the ERA, thermals are of foreign design, they are indigenous as India has mastered the technology to manufacture in India without any import. The license manufacturing does not mean India imports components. Tehre are different types of license - India has fully obtained the technology and hence can manufacture all its basic tank needs using its own inhouse production. Pakistan imports and assembles it.

Also, the APFSDS is meant for T90 as it has 120mm caliber, not 125mm caliber. This is only suitable for T90 and T72, not Arjun as Arjun ahs 120mm rifled gun. Rifled guns can't use AAPFSDS anyways and hence India will not develop APFSDS for it. Here is DRDO official article claiming that 40k rounds are annually produced: https://www.drdo.gov.in/fsapds-ammunition
View attachment 741133

India is developing Mk2 version with 550mm penetration at 2km from 500mm at 2km. India has developed it last year and has even placed an order for it. To develop 700mm penetrator, India needs Depleted Uranium sabot which India does not want to use. You are using outdated information when talking of 300mm penetration. In fact, Arjun tank has no APFSDS capability due to its rifled bore (rifled bore can't fire APFSDS).

India uses Kanchan ERA, not Russian ERA. India keeps upgrading the ERA technology too but only the new production variant gets the new ERA as older armour is not replaced. India has indigenised the thermals and is currently upgrading to latest version of thermals. Even there, India has achieved high amount of self sufficiency.
that is literally rebranded mango, 500/0 Deg 2KM is only 40mm better than mango, still ancient. 550MM (still under development) is still 100mm behind what Pakistan is using and has Been using for years.

your definition of Indigenous is entirely wrong, nobody uses that, that’s called license production. By that metric Pakistan is far ahead in indigenization than India. Pakistan manufactures APFSDS, ERA, FCS and thermals without any foreign input. All of those apart from thermals are even designed in Pakistan. While India barely designs any of it. That’s what indigenous is. Not your license production.

Kanchan ERA is not indigenous either, it uses explosive tiles from K-5 and is still second Gen. also it’s only used on modernized T72 and Arjun, T90 still uses K-5, which Likely means K5 is superior anyways. India cannot change that without Russian permission.
 
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Smarana Mitra

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that is literally rebranded mango, 500/0 Deg 2KM is only 40mm better than mango, still ancient. 550MM (still under development) is still 100mm behind what Pakistan is using and has Been using for years.

your definition of Indigenous is entirely wrong, nobody uses that, that’s called license production. By that metric Pakistan is far ahead in indigenization than India. Pakistan manufactures APFSDS, ERA, FCS and thermals without any foreign input. All of those apart from thermals are even designed in Pakistan. While India barely designs any of it. That’s what indigenous is. Not your license production.

Kanchan ERA is not indigenous either, it uses explosive tiles from K-5 and is still second Gen. also it’s only used on modernized T72 and Arjun, T90 still uses K-5, which Likely means K5 is superior anyways. India cannot change that without Russian permission.
It is not rebranded Mango. India developed it indigenously. ALso, Pakistan does not make thermals, FCS indigenously. It is imported from China. These involve semiconductor technology and some other technology which Pakistan does not have
 

Ahmet Pasha

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In November 2019, another Rs 20,000 crore indent was placed on HVF for 464 more upgraded T-90S tanks to add to the 1,193 such tanks already inducted. After the first 657 T-90S tanks were imported for Rs 8,525 crore from 2001 onwards, the next 1,000 are being licensed produced by HVF with Russian kits. The 464 additional T-90S tanks are scheduled for delivery by March 2025.

But will there be a lot of Indians to defend by then or will they be taken by the virus?
 

iLION12345_1

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It is not rebranded Mango. India developed it indigenously. ALso, Pakistan does not make thermals, FCS indigenously. It is imported from China. These involve semiconductor technology and some other technology which Pakistan does not have
But it’s barely any better than ammunition from the 80s. So what’s the point?
Pakistan does make FCS indigenously, even beyond your false definition of indigenous. AK-1 has a Pakistani FCS. I never said Pakistan makes thermals indigenously, but has been license producing them for over 15 years. The Thermals used in Indian T90S, Pakistan has been making locally for over 10 years. I thought your definition of indigenous was license production After all? India doesn’t make any FCS either, local production of foreign designs. At least we designed our own.
 

vishwambhar

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After Azerbaijan and Armenia war many people seem to believe that tank era is over, but they should not forget that Azerbaijan and Armenia fight was like 2 school kids fighting each other with no air force strong air defence etc.... At such wars drones can rule....

Someone here even said Britain has now decided to not to have tanks after nagirno karabakh war..... First there is no such credible source for this and Azerbaijan and Armenia war can never be a yardstick for a great power like Britain to redesign her doctrine....

You can't expect drones to dominate skies in a war between two big armies armed with solid Air force, Air defense systems and far superior training and doctrine....in such wars tanks will play a dominating role to move and capture territory.... Drones can be irritating but can certainly be taken care by big armies....
 

jk007

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But it’s barely any better than ammunition from the 80s. So what’s the point?
Pakistan does make FCS indigenously, even beyond your false definition of indigenous. AK-1 has a Pakistani FCS. I never said Pakistan makes thermals indigenously, but has been license producing them for over 15 years. The Thermals used in Indian T90S, Pakistan has been making locally for over 10 years. I thought your definition of indigenous was license production After all? India doesn’t make any FCS either, local production of foreign designs. At least we designed our own.
@MirageBlue Can you or some knowledgeable member confirm / dispute the info being put forward by @iLION12345_1

Can India be so far behind in tanks & related equipment?

PS: I do not know anyone more knowledgeable than you. Hence tagged you.
 

vishwambhar

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Again, false, Indian T72 upgrades uses FCS and subsystems from Polish PT-91M Tank (Polish SKO-1T DRAWA-T fire control system/thermal imager supplied by the Polish PCO/Cenzi) . They are NOT indigenous, it’s a polish design, modified for use and production in India.
The FCS in Indian T90 is ESSA. Which is NOT an Indian FCS. It is French-Russian in origin, only license produced in India. The thermals in it are last Gen French thermals. Not indigenous, Pakistan is already producing 3rd Gen French thermals locally, the Thermals in the ESSA system are Second Gen Catherine FC.
The FCS in Arjun is not indigenous either, it’s from French SAGEM company. India has yet to use its indigenous FCS in any tank, they say it will be present in Arjun MK-1A. Pakistan has been using its indigenous FCS on AK-1 since 2014.

The ERA on Indian T90 is NOT indigenous, it’s Russian Kontakt-5 ERA made under license in India. None of the stuff you mentioned india has “made” is operational on any of its tanks except some parts ofArjun. Pakistan had Kontatk-5 since the 90s on its UDs. DRDOs “indigenous” ERA is only used on Arjun and modernized T72 and is still based on the explosive tiles of Kontakt 5, hence it is still a second Gen ERA. Also Pakistan does make its own indigenous ERA. AORAK is Pakistani ERA, which we have been making since late 2000s, AORAK 1 was second Gen and the current AORAK-2 used on Al-Zarrar, Al Khalid/Al-Khalid-1 and Type 85 tanks is third Gen ERA. It is mass produced in Pakistan. It’s better than both K-5 and DRDO ERA as they are second Gen. cost isn’t an issue for Pakistan then How is it an issue for India?

The engine in Indian T90,T72 and Arjun are NOT indigenous. Indian T90S still uses the same Russian engines It came with (India cannot change those without Russian permission). The engine in Indian modernized T72 is from Poland. And the engine in Arjun is from MTU, it’s German, the engine india has developed itself is not present on any Indian tank currently in service.

Indian locally made APFSDS on Arjun can only penetrate 300MM/0 Deg. Which was standard for ammunition in the 70s, the “700mm” round has not even been fully developed yet and will not be usable on all the older T72 due to their FCS not permitting it, which is half of the Indian fleet, and it is unlikely it will be used on T90 as well, which is why India is buying mango. Arjun is in such little numbers that if that round ever reaches service (unlikely because arjuns gun is obsolete rifled gun), it won’t make a difference. Indias standard round will stay Mango for the foreseeable future, which is bad, since it cannot penetrate Al-Khalid even without ERA, while Al-Khalid can easily penetrate T90S.

Also Al-Khalid-1 has many advantages over T90, it has better thermals, better armor, better engine, better FCS, much better ammunition, better technology and so on. The baseline Al-Khalid is closer to the Indian T90, but is still superior in Armor, ammunition and mobility (as it uses the same stuff from AK-1). Indian T90S are far inferior to AK in those regards, let alone VT-4, and on top of that AK is indigenous and not a foreign tank.

You keep saying “India is developing this and that” but none of it has come yet, even on the Arjun. That’s called mismanagement of industry, tanks are never second line, that’s just an excuse you would use to make up for the faults.

In the India-Pakistan environment tanks are as useful as ever, to say “any modern ammunition can bust a tank” is to say “our tanks aren’t properly Defended because we won’t upgrade their armor or give them better APS systems”. It’s not that india doesn’t care about its tanks because they’re not useful, it does that because there’s incompetency in the military. What good did your Air Force and navy do to you against China and Pakistan in the recent conflicts? It was all army and it was all tanks in use, and Pakistani/Chinese tanks are much superior to Indias. You brush off “fancy 3rd Gen ERA and new ammunition” as if it makes little difference, but in an actual conflict an Indian T90 could be knocked out by an Al-Zarrar because the Al-Zarrar has the same Gen of thermals, better Gen of ERA and much better ammunition.
If mango rounds on T72/90 can't penitrate AK even without ERA then why would India use it on tanks??

In all India Pakistan wars tanks have always been a dominating platforms then how can they buy such useless rounds which cannot penitrate AK even without ERA but AK can penitrate Indian tanks at will???

Apart from this AL Zarrar if I am not mistaken is an upgrade of very old tank T59 / T69 or T62.... How can it be more powerful than upgraded T72 and latest T90??

Also if possible can you brief on what is CITV and APS system on VT4....
 
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Yasser76

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@MirageBlue Can you or some knowledgeable member confirm / dispute the info being put forward by @iLION12345_1

Can India be so far behind in tanks & related equipment?

PS: I do not know anyone more knowledgeable than you. Hence tagged you.
You cannot argue against the guy constructively so you are literally begging to be helped out?
If mango rounds on T72/90 can't penitrate AK even without ERA then why would India use it on tanks??

In all India Pakistan wars tanks have always been a dominating platforms then how can they buy such useless rounds which cannot penitrate AK even without ERA but AK can penitrate Indian tanks at will???

Apart from this AL Zarrar if I am not mistaken is an upgrade of very old tank T59 / T69 or T62.... How can it be more powerful than upgraded T72 and latest T90??

Also if possible can you brief on what is CITV and APS system on VT4....
Same way a Leopard 2A+7 is different from a Leopard 2.....
 

jk007

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You cannot argue against the guy constructively so you are literally begging to be helped out?


Same way a Leopard 2A+7 is different from a Leopard 2.....
Does it occur to you that not all people (myself for one) are omniscient like some people in this forum?
 

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