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In farewell meetings, COAS Gen Bajwa tells troops to keep serving nation with same zeal

Goenitz

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@HRK @LeGenD @Areesh @Path-Finder @The Accountant @SQ8 @maverick1977

How can army (top brass) control itself to get corrupt bcz they have resources (power+money). Such as, they can easily get cheap land, renovate it and sell it at higher price. Open a food processing factory, provide quality goods, earn bucks. Therefore, small business cannot match and they have to be either partner or service provider (labourer or retailer etc). All these legit things besides corruption, which attracts corrupt politicians and bureaucrats.

So, there is a pull which a human cannot ignore, so what physical pressure can be there to prevent it. For sure, fair justice system. But how army controls it? Using ISI or IB or by any division/garrison??

We need to check that link. Either entirely eliminate it, control it or something equally good. As sooner or later Army will do what it has been doing.

1. if it is ISI, then limit its control or give it under civilian control (not now, but later)
2. If it is garrisons, divide army into commands.
3. Limit COAS authority like relieving any officer w/o giving any reason such as 2200 officers or waiving pensions of veterans.
4. Shift capital to Karachi or GHQ to Karachi.
etc
 
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SQ8

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@HRK @LeGenD @Areesh @Path-Finder @The Accountant @SQ8 @maverick1977

How can army (top brass) control itself to get corrupt bcz they have resources (power+money). Such as, they can easily get cheap land, renovate it and sell it at higher price. Open a food processing factory, provide quality goods, earn bucks. Therefore, small business cannot match and they have to be either partner or service provider (labourer or retailer etc). All these legit things besides corruption, which attracts corrupt politicians and bureaucrats.

So, there is a pull which a human cannot ignore, so what physical pressure can be there to prevent it. For sure, fair justice system. But how army controls it? Using ISI or IB or by any division/garrison??

We need to check that link. Either entirely eliminate it, control it or something equally good. As sooner or later Army will do what it has been doing.

1. if it is ISI, then limit its control or give it under civilian control (not now, but later)
2. If it is garrisons, divide army into commands.
3. Limit COAS authority like relieving any officer w/o giving any reason such as 2200 officers or waiving pensions of veterans.
4. Shift capital to Karachi or GHQ to Karachi.
etc
1. Technically, the ISI should be under civilian control regardless.

2. Corruption is part and particple of Pakistani society and you cannot ask anyone to keep checks and balances on themselves.
Its like saying the Italian Mafia should police itself … state laws and enforcement of those laws is what makes a difference.

US Navy corruption scandal

The above also happened, millions were stolen but at the end the various checks and balances made sure the perpetrators were caught. Because they had the judiciary above them and could not pick up common people in black vigos at night to stop them. When that fear that even if you are a two star or three star you will be caught and punished/humiliated in public exists.. then the culture will fix itself automatically.

3. The Army is NOT a democracy -
Any military is NOT a democracy.
However, if in general officers start speaking of loss of confidence in command then the superiors in the military remove that leader - in a democratically ruled stated the superior to the COAS is the minister of defense and then PM.. so technically the PM could remove the COAS if there is loss of confidence in leadership.

In Pakistan where COAS is the defacto equal to PM and there is no “superior” then the only option is for the supporting actors of the COAS to lay out the options for him to leave.
 

CivilianSupremacy

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@HRK @LeGenD @Areesh @Path-Finder @The Accountant @SQ8 @maverick1977

How can army (top brass) control itself to get corrupt bcz they have resources (power+money). Such as, they can easily get cheap land, renovate it and sell it at higher price. Open a food processing factory, provide quality goods, earn bucks. Therefore, small business cannot match and they have to be either partner or service provider (labourer or retailer etc). All these legit things besides corruption, which attracts corrupt politicians and bureaucrats.

So, there is a pull which a human cannot ignore, so what physical pressure can be there to prevent it. For sure, fair justice system. But how army controls it? Using ISI or IB or by any division/garrison??

We need to check that link. Either entirely eliminate it, control it or something equally good. As sooner or later Army will do what it has been doing.

1. if it is ISI, then limit its control or give it under civilian control (not now, but later)
2. If it is garrisons, divide army into commands.
3. Limit COAS authority like relieving any officer w/o giving any reason such as 2200 officers or waiving pensions of veterans.
4. Shift capital to Karachi or GHQ to Karachi.
etc

Its a very valid concern. My solution to all these problems is keep military away from cities.

If you see map of Pakistan and military bases, You will find those inside cantonments. Almost each of the cantonment is inside the city. Military should have no business in cities. This setup was made by British which was an occupying force. It has not changed since then. If you see Pakistan map through google satellite view, you will find 50s and 100s of Kms between a city and a border and there is nothing in between. Just desert or farms or few villages. This land between the cities and the borders is the right place for cantonments.

If you keep the military force and their officers with lot of hard power under them within cities, then their interest in real estate, businesses and every other thing which they should not engage will happen. If military remains within cities and controls everything and no law can touch them then the impression that military has captured its own country looks very real.

For instance, see below google satellite view of Corp Commander Lahore residence (Jinnah house). This is a 45 Kanal house residence:


There are 100s of soldiers needed for security detail, countless others needed for other personal details. All this force has nothing to do with combat. Many for gardening, many for horse ride clubs, golf courses, cleaning, laundery. Imagine, nation pays for all that workforce, then the pensions for that workforce and perks. Imagine this is happening to a country which is surviving on loans. All this luxury automatically attracts further more power and greed.

This is just one residence in the heart of expensive area. Imagine, Pakistan Army has around 30 Lt. Generals and 190 Major Generals. (active service).

Reason, why we never see any military vehicles or 4x4s and soldiers pointing guns outside in any developed / civilized world because their military is never present in the cities. It would be an unimaginable sight seeing military vehicles or soldiers in urban areas.
 

Goenitz

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1668372414889.png

Thank you Bajwa.
 

Trango Towers

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Dude, @The Accountant is one of the most vocal critic of current Army leadership and their doings, relax he is only stopping you to insult his mother, although I agree that she is partially to be blamed that she didn't raise him good but abusing her will not be a good idea. We have stories of people abusing Prophet SAW, and his companions in worse ways possible and not a single time they insult their enemies mothers. So Keep abusing Bajwa and Army for whatever they did and doing, but i don't think its wise to use vulgar words for mothers or fathers.
I didn't abuse his mother go look it up its was someone else. My post is post #33 and it pretty much says what you said but he gave me a negative rating so he is a twat. Period
 

S.Y.A

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by one very very famous leader of PPP
makhdoom ameen faheem?

I have already said in my earlier comments, Pakistanis mostly are top class hypocrites. They know the truth but would deny it, just to pretend they are without faults, when they could be guilty like hell. They lie and twist things, even mundane things. In my youth, I used to go to Raiwind with my international "Jamat", had done 3/4 40 days "chillas". One of my Pakistani colleague I befriended was a top class liar and a "Munafiq" liar. He used to admit it to me, but in front of others he would just lie blatantly. The other Pakistani guy, used to wet himself almost every night. He would wake me up in the middle of the night, so i can help bring his clean clothes to the bath, while he ran to the bath, being in the mosque he couldn't stay there as unclean. I used to tell them straight on their faces, you are Shiatians, what are you doing here in the mosque!!
My Dad had few hundred acres agricultural land in the vacinity of Hala and Tando Adam. When my Dad died, the land was over taken by one very very famous leader of PPP, who have died couple of years ago. They change the documents of ownership and everything else in the records. Pakistanis are top class frauds, make no mistakes.
my grandfather owned a restaurant at boat-basin area of karachi. he gave it to someone to run it on contract, as he himself was in the middle east. the guy forged the docs and took it over, and was connected to the now dead pir pagara. we took the case to court, but nothing happened. the "pirs" and so-called "jamatis", self-crowned pious people, are nothing but liars.
 

Jazzbot

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View attachment 895288

  • COAS meets troops at two garrisons as part of his farewell visit.
  • he tells troops to serve nation no matter what the circumstances.
  • COAS appreciates formations for their excellent performance.
RAWALPINDI: Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Qamar Javed Bajwa Thursday advised armed forces to keep serving the nation with the same zeal and commitment no matter what the circumstances.
In a statement, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said the army chief's comments came during his visit to Sialkot and Mangla garrisons as part of his farewell visits to various formations.
The COAS appreciated formations for their excellent performance during various operations, training, and natural calamities.
Earlier, on arrival at Sialkot, Lieutenant General Muhammad Aamer received the army chief and at Mangla garrison, Lieutenant General Ayman Bilal Safdar had received him.

'Stay focused on professional duties'​

Just a day earlier, the army chief had directed the troops to always stay focused on their professional duties in the service of the nation.
COAS expressed the views on arrival at Peshwar Corps Headquarters, where he laid a floral wreath at Shahuada (martyrs) monument.
Later, the COAS addressed officers and men of the Peshawar Corps, where he appreciated the formation for its monumental efforts in achieving peace and stability.
“We owe it to the sacrifices of our shuhada for providing a secure and enabling environment for socio-economic development in newly merged districts in particular and KP in general,” the COAS said.
Earlier, on arrival at Corps Headquarters, the COAS was received by Commander Peshawar Corps Lieutenant General Hassan Azhar Hayat.



He's actually right, the troops should only focus on serving. It's the generals that do political engineering, money laundering, businesses and real estate abroad, extra judicial killings etc.
 

The Accountant

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@HRK @LeGenD @Areesh @Path-Finder @The Accountant @SQ8 @maverick1977

How can army (top brass) control itself to get corrupt bcz they have resources (power+money). Such as, they can easily get cheap land, renovate it and sell it at higher price. Open a food processing factory, provide quality goods, earn bucks. Therefore, small business cannot match and they have to be either partner or service provider (labourer or retailer etc). All these legit things besides corruption, which attracts corrupt politicians and bureaucrats.

So, there is a pull which a human cannot ignore, so what physical pressure can be there to prevent it. For sure, fair justice system. But how army controls it? Using ISI or IB or by any division/garrison??

We need to check that link. Either entirely eliminate it, control it or something equally good. As sooner or later Army will do what it has been doing.

1. if it is ISI, then limit its control or give it under civilian control (not now, but later)
2. If it is garrisons, divide army into commands.
3. Limit COAS authority like relieving any officer w/o giving any reason such as 2200 officers or waiving pensions of veterans.
4. Shift capital to Karachi or GHQ to Karachi.
etc
Good questions brother.
With the events unfolded in past 8 months now it is beyond doubt that Pakistani establishment control the key institutions and to retain this control they r ready to go to any level be it murder or in current situation even an unstable and a financial default..

Thanks to Allah atleast we have recognized the problem and now the next step is to find a solution. As far as i am. Oncern i think setting up accountibility and check and balance is the way forward ... We need to close few functions of ISI including tripple one brigade and ISI internal wing ...
 
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waz

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PDF will be getting an invite to say our goodbyes. :whistle:


If you would like to come please reply below.
 

ziaulislam

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Dons Family has decided but Nawaz sharif doesn't like the decision

Who will be next don?
 

CriticalThinker02

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Good questions brother.
With the events unfolded in past 8 months now it is beyond doubt that Pakistani establishment control the key institutions and to retain this control they r ready to go to any level be it murder or in current situation even an unstable and a financial default..

Thanks to Allah atleast we have recognized the problem and now the next step is to find a solution. As far as i am. Oncern i think setting up accountibility and check and balance is the way forward ... We need to close few functions of ISI including tripple one brigade and ISI internal wing ...
Who has the power to do that?
 

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