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Imran Khan Riaz gives a harsh reality check to Muslims

S.Y.A

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well my thinking stems from The Holy Quran & the blatant contradictions I see in the teachings of the scholars today. for example, most scholars today say a woman being a ruler is haram while The Quran is clearly CELEBRATING a woman role, the queen of Sheba, as being a righteous woman and no where does The Quran or any hadith indicate that the queen abdicated her throne to Suleman A.S
see, your thinking doesnt matter, what matters is the thinking of the learned: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/3285/ruling-on-appointing-women-to-positions-of-high-public-office

PS: this is from Ahle Hadith website, those who strictly follow the Quran and Hadith and do not follow any fiqh, like the Hanafis. enjoy.
 

Verve

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yeah living in a single room all their lives, they are sure to be making big bucks. go and put the blame on someone else for your problems
I have not come across a single mufti living in a single room all their lives! Maybe your mixing christian priests with these lot!

I have problems with these deen farosh ulemas and all sects forcing their views on others. I won't go down the route of ripping into each firqah so I am waiting for your to declare yours so that we can have a focused discussion!
 

GumNaam

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where is the Quran celebrating it? Please do not distort the Quran, you are committing tahreef in the meaning here to meet your own narrative. also, queen sheeba was a kafir.
you see? this is what happens when you don't study the Quran and Sunnah and rely on scholarly buz words that you surely heard from so called "scholars". The queen of sheba was not a kafir my dear, she verily reverted to Islam and brought iman on Prophet Solomon...
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again a distortion of what actually happens. some sins are major, some are minor, if an Aalim is informing Muslims about dangers of a major sin, or committing sins in general he is wrong and should be made to shut up? also, fazlu is an exceptional case. citing him as an example does no good to your case. there are may who call for fighting against US and India, when will you follow them? instead of blaming fazlu, why dont you do something concrete?
you can't possibly be serious. these "ulema" of yours were busy informing us about the dangers of major sins, NONE of them saw the national wealth being looted? for all these mullah so utterly busy and focused on the lives of the common man, why didn't any single one of them make a concerted effort to inform the people of the grave consequences of what the pee pee pee and the noora leaque was doing? why wasn't there a faiz a bad like dharna demanding answers where the $6 million in zardari's account come from & how did the noora family purchase such expensive avenfield flats when their children first claimed that it was on (and I quote) "every penny comes from Pakistan for rent" when the family barely paid a few lakhs worth of taxes? those who claim to love The Prophet s.a.a.w and his companions didn't even realize that the ummah demanded accountability even from someone as stern as Hazrat Omar ra when he a muslimah demanded to know where he got the extra sheet from and that he would be fixed with the sword if he did anything corrupt? you see? mullahs today just can't get away from their criminal silence on these matters. they see and have the masses chase down a teenage girl wearing a t-shirt and jeans but completely overlooked the entire national wealth getting butchered...they just don't have any excuse for these criminal negligences. I believe it was Imam Abu Hanifa who was told once that if an individual person strays, he falls into sin, but if the ulema strays, the entire ummah falls into sin. We see that...IN ACTION! mullahs have strayed, and have been straying for centuries now. And we see the entire ummah falling into life of sin with no proper direction none what so ever.
and then you were saying that you want them to be in politics, once they are, you will be screaming at the top of your lungs against what they inform you is wrong. what a hypocrite.
am I the hypocrite or you and your mullahs? is it really that hard to understand that they should step into politics AS PROPER, UP-RIGHT LEADERS FREE FROM SECTARIAN & VESTED INTERESTS WHILE HAVING A DYNAMIC VISION OF BUILDING A COMTEMPORARY ISLAMIC SOCIETY THAT IS BOTH ECONOMICALLY AND TECHNOLOGICALLY SELF-SUFFECIENT? I mean...it BOGGLES the mind to think that people are not able to grasp such a basic concept...its not like I'm talkin' rocket science here!
 

GumNaam

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You do realize that you keep on harping about Quran and Sunnah, and yet you reject those who learned from those who were in the company of the Holy Prophet. Btw, the Holy Prophet and Quran belong to that era as well. so next, will you be refusing to believe in them as well, as they belong to the 7th century and not modern times.
can you tell me the defining difference between the mullahs today and the the companions who learned the Quran and sunnah from The Holy Prophet and then those who learned from the companions? did they not ensure strict accountability and even faced death and embrace shahadat from the hands of corrupt rulers of the time once they started creeping in? I won't hold against them that mulookiat set in in the name of Islamic khikafat that ended up killing fellow Muslims cuz at least they made an concerted effort to prevent it. do we see that effort today? aside from tahir ul qadri, tell me ONE molvi that stood up and led the masses to hold the corrupt accountable? JUST ONE! if these mullahs were as pious as you are trying so hard to portray them as, there should've been a case after case, FIRs after FIRs, dharnas after dharnas sponsored by these mullahs demanding accountability of where did the ruling parties get all the money and where is the national wealth being spent...but aside from one Imran Khan and one tahir-ul-qadri, the rest of the mullahs were just busy sleeping, chugging down halwas & debating which sect is kafir, deoband or beralvi! 🤦‍♂️ deny it if you will but deny it with evidence which I already know that you can't provide.
 

GumNaam

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makrooh, not haram. based on the interpretation of a Hadith (which is supposed to be an explanation of the Quran), which states that fish are halal, the word used in arabic means both fish and whatever is in the sea. those who declare it makrooh, understand the Hadith to be only referring to fish (crabs and shrimps are not fish, hence makrooh). those who consider it halal, simply do so as they consider everything in the sea as fish. you are talking about being unbiased and following Quran and Sunnah, yet you refuse to understand differing viewpoints, just sticking with the one that you see fit and calling all others as evil and wrong and what not. you see the irony in your approach, dont you?
enjoy reading, one hand you have scientific evidence to back up an opinion, on the other you have just the opinion of the Ulema, shitting on the other group just because they do not follow your understanding is a bit hypocritical coming from someone like you who is talking about modernism and whatnot:

see? this is where attempts of mind control come in...who asked for this "twist" of an interpretation that "it only refers to fish" anyway? If The Quran says seafood is halal, if the hadith says its halal, why even bother getting into a discussion AT ALL? that should've been the END of the discussion that Allah & His messenger said is halal, then its halal! who gave the mullahs the right barge in and instead of letting the people use their own common sense, start deciphering through which organism is halal and which one isn't? and no side, I have personally heard mullahs from the middle east working here in the u.s. declared shrimps and prawns as haram which is just ridiculous. it is irrelevant to me that these people maybe in the minority or what not...its the fact that they have had so much lay way that they are able to dictate the most common and mundane things to the Muslim people, something that they can just use their common sense and mental faculties to decide on...then one wonders why are people asking mullahs if wearing "sneakers" are haram...the answer is pretty simple...mullahs have dumbed down their followers so much that they can't even decide on something as simple as sneakers for goodness sakes.
 

GumNaam

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see, your thinking doesnt matter, what matters is the thinking of the learned: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/3285/ruling-on-appointing-women-to-positions-of-high-public-office

PS: this is from Ahle Hadith website, those who strictly follow the Quran and Hadith and do not follow any fiqh, like the Hanafis. enjoy.
who gave the right to decide that "they are the learned ones" only? good sir, your "learned ones" can't a candle up against a contemporary scholar or philosopher from the west...the traditional scholar who has been strictly educated in the madrassahs based on the 7th century standards, he regularly crashes when debating any given issue in front of any western atheist scholar. Its a shame, an utter shame that it takes a Muslim scholar who is educated in western or western styled universities with contemporary education to defeat the atheist scholar at his own game. and funny how these fatwa issuers once were ruled by the queen of england and these mullahs silently stood behind someone like benazir, khaleda zia and now, haseena wajid. its a foregone conclusion...their "fatwas" and "rulings" have no room or relevance left in the world today and they only have themselves to blame for it. the blame falls squarely on their inability to further refine their thinking and their inability to hold rulers accountable. there is a reason why anyone with any level of intellect just can't relate to them or their so called "rulings". you say that what we think doesn't matter and that what matters is the thinking of the learned when the real issue as that those who you consider as "learned" are fast becoming irrelevant while at the end of the day, it is only and ONLY what decides using his or her own critical and cognitive thinking based on their education and experience is what matters. it is the sad truth that in today's world, when a mullah or a mufti stands up and says that "woman in leadership positions are haram" in a world where there are women in corporate and political positions of power, his words fall upon deaf ears and are disregarded...it is even further made irrelavant that none of these rulings include the opinions of female Islamic scholars.
 
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GumNaam

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You do realise that in all the instances you stated religious scholars or clerics were not political or military leaders? What authority or power did they have to do anything in those situations? To blame them for the failures of emperors, sultans, etc - it's like blaming you and me for the failures of our nation states today.

Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) died in a prison cell in because he refused a government position. The rise and fall of state and empires is as natural as the coming and going of the tide. Only those with the hunger and drive for success can achieve it, Look at how generational wealth is squandered, power is no different.
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Let me clarify that I am not talking about the Muslim scholars from the early Islamic period...my grief is against the clerics of the last 500 years or so. you are 100% on the mark about Iman Abu Hanifa ra, I even mentioned that above that I don't hold anything against our early Muslim scholars because they did whatever they could to hold the political leadership accountable and were severely punished for it as well...

Islam was never a cleric driven religion. We are each supposed to know what we need to know, but like all fields of knowledge, we need SME's. Leadership is about managing the resources and the expertise to get maximum affect. If states fail, blame the leaders.

It was but then OP decided to shit on his own thread by expressing his personal biases and dislike of mullahs as the very first reply.
you can't simply blame the leaders when the community heads which, in a Muslim society, is a position that the community gives to an Islamic scholar, remains silent. I would not have blamed molvis if I had seen them holding the corrupt pee pee pee and noora governments accountable but failing...because at least they tried. I would not have blamed molvis for not pushing the madarris towards science and technology but failing...because at least they tried. the problem is that they are not even trying save a few and far between ones. in a country, where people go to the mullahs even learn if a certain type of a hat is halal to wear or not for goodness sakes, one NATURALLY asks the question that why aren't these mullahs speaking up about issues that matter the most in today's world. there is just no denying that fact.
I can so relate to u since I'm guessing u must've lost a lot of years going through different subjects of study n trying to connect the dots when u uncovered just how dominant Muslims were many centuries ago n how did it all come down to this humiliation in the present day??!!!
Any striving n thinking Muslim with a pure niyyah to get to know the truth will reach to the conclusions I suspect u have come to n mostly I agree to what I'm reading from ur posts.... but u c its the same issue for those who're not being able to relate to u.... it requires lots of study n acquisition of knowledge with patience to try n understand the historical blunders n connect all that together with purity of intent! Allah does make one understand n look at the truth! But then again who's got time to delve deep??!!! Same issue with masses just as mullah class.... no patience no study no hard work just rote learning , run of the mill stuff n ur good to go!
ok, agreed on "who has that much time to deep dive into things". well, time is money so why not take a logical approach? Let's let the basic principals of Quran and the Sunnah guide us. those don't require a deep dive into anything? they are very straight forward and well known. in the rest of the things, let's just use our common senses and educated mental faculties to make decisions, both as individuals and as a society? then concentrate of most of our time and energy on, oh, I dunno, strengthening the economy? creating and mastering technology? asserting our influence across the globe so no one would dare ridicule Islam?

Time, my friend, is a limited commodity as are our mental resources...we need to focus on what matters.
 
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GumNaam

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Thank you for being honest, finally. see, the thing is, that most turned a blind eye because that is what most academics do, whether a professor, or whether they are ulema in a darul uloom. a tiny bit of them get involved in political activism, most of those who do that are just attention seekers (JUI-F or hoodhbhoy). it is good that you think that ulema should enter politics, but once they do, people will be screaming at them for not limiting themselves to masajid and madaris. and yes, jeans wali larki par fatwa agar koi poochhay ga to uska jawab dena unka kaam hai.

To spread Islam and guide people to the right path.

I think you are inspired by Dr Israr, and think that establishing a govt is the ultimate purpose. even then, establishing a govt cannot be done until and unless a majority of people support those ideals and are are ready to fight for them. are you ready to go out in the streets today and ask for establishment of khilafah?
I have very many academic disagreements with Dr. Israr Ahmed marhoom, may Allah have mercy on him, but yes, overall, I very much am inspired by his overall message having a true Islamic government in letter and spirit. I may disagree with some of his methods and interpretations but his overall message was right on and his heart was in the right place, no doubt. the thing about power is that it requires a magnetic leader that can gain a following at the grass roots level. We have such magnetic leadership today but unfortunately, not very many of 'em are Islamic scholars or even remotely practicing Muslims. That is my ultimate gripe. Our scholars today (and for the last 500 years), have utterly failed in providing a magnetic leadership that is a crowd puller, they have failed motivating the masses hold accountability and justice, they have failed in motivating the masses in achieving mastery in science and technology. It's just sad.


In today's world, if one is a true ashiq-e-Rasool, then he or she should consider it FARZ E AYN upon themselves to pick a field of science & engineering and gain full mastery over it, be it electronics, semiconductors, biology, medicine, mechanics, you name it...that is LITERALLY the ONLY way we will be able to dictate our terms to the world...
 

ARMalik

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Let's be honest about these so called Mullahs. There are probably the biggest enemies of Muslims because they have twisted and faked and misinterpreted the teachings of Islam and the prophet. And to top it, have you ever thought how easily has US/West have used these people as a tool to destroy Muslims countries via civil wars??
 

GumNaam

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Let's be honest about these so called Mullahs. There are probably the biggest enemies of Muslims because they have twisted and faked and misinterpreted the teachings of Islam and the prophet. And to top it, have you ever thought how easily has US/West have used these people as a tool to destroy Muslims countries via civil wars??
agreed. there's a reason why cia director james woolsey once said that wahabi Islam is the single greatest ally america has ever had. easy to emotionally fire up, easy to manipulate & will do your dirty work for you for free!
 

Hassan90

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see, your thinking doesnt matter, what matters is the thinking of the learned: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/3285/ruling-on-appointing-women-to-positions-of-high-public-office

PS: this is from Ahle Hadith website, those who strictly follow the Quran and Hadith and do not follow any fiqh, like the Hanafis. enjoy.
bro i know you want to feed them the right info but it pointless . most if not all of these burger types brown sahibs have been brought up with alot of hate for anything religious . obviously they cant talk bad about islam but they will talk about mullah /molvis and how they would wish ulema were butchered by state machinery. these same ppl would call molvis or religious ppl horrible names and still claim to be openmind en civil . they reject everything and anything you bring to table ..in essence they are nothing less then isis who have state machinery in their hand in most muslim nation, they curse ulemas but dont see death and destruction they have brought to musllim nation after independence ,,,from morocco to indonesia ..these liberal seculers munafiqs have ruined muslims . mullahs have never run any muslim nation for the past 80 years but still mullah get the blame by these seculers and their overlords , the whith nations!
 

GumNaam

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bro i know you want to feed them the right info but it pointless . most if not all of these burger types brown sahibs have been brought up with alot of hate for anything religious . obviously they cant talk bad about islam but they will talk about mullah /molvis and how they would wish ulema were butchered by state machinery. these same ppl would call molvis or religious ppl horrible names and still claim to be openmind en civil . they reject everything and anything you bring to table ..in essence they are nothing less then isis who have state machinery in their hand in most muslim nation, they curse ulemas but dont see death and destruction they have brought to musllim nation after independence ,,,from morocco to indonesia ..these liberal seculers munafiqs have ruined muslims . mullahs have never run any muslim nation for the past 80 years but still mullah get the blame by these seculers and their overlords , the whith nations!
a pretty dangerous blanket statement fed by mullahs who can't stand their grounds based on sound reasoning & evidence on account of having no legs to stand on. I can't speak for Burberry bachas living in Pakistan but realize, that if here in the west, someone still maintains his Islamic faith based on the teachings of The Quran & sunnah in spite of having western education while faced with all forms of temptations & incentives to go atheist, understand that they do so based on tremendous amounts of time spent thinking, reflecting & researching. The western atheist intellectual's worst nightmare is not the mullah educated in a traditional madrassah, their worst nightmare is someone who is a western educated muslims that are able to still hold on to their faith based on sound reasoning & evidence in spite of eveything around them. traditional mullahs are just not a challenge to them, they aren't even practice.
 

Hassan90

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today was a day to see how honorable , champion of freedom of speech and protest are ..but what i saw was a total framed propaganda by the state machinery, top to bottom ..it was all onesided ! which in turn makes it clear to average pakistani ,how widespread this cancer is of the ppl ,who are against the Islamic cause . i see ppl calling for termination ..all the language used here against these protester is the same as what wests uses against muslim , meaning totally hateful !

imran khan did 126 day protest ,blocked roads, he asked for rebellion , burned bills , attacked the parliament/ptv but no shells or bullet was used ! same with PPP which burned whole pakistan, no bullet was fired but here everything is used and the gov is trying to paint one-sided story by instructing media not to show name of tlp or show their point of view . this is seculars and liberal thought and every religious person who has love of islam is also watching this hypocrisy . i can say this i hope that islamic parties come out of playing nice in the face of aggression like other parties ... they have right to protest and if this administration uses force then they will have to think about some heavy measures. this cannot go on without any response while our civilized seculars use heavy handiness and bullets .
 

GumNaam

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today was a day to see how honorable , champion of freedom of speech and protest are ..but what i saw was a total framed propaganda by the state machinery, top to bottom ..it was all onesided ! which in turn makes it clear to average pakistani ,how widespread this cancer is of the ppl ,who are against the Islamic cause . i see ppl calling for termination ..all the language used here against these protester is the same as what wests uses against muslim , meaning totally hateful !

imran khan did 126 day protest ,blocked roads, he asked for rebellion , burned bills , attacked the parliament/ptv but no shells or bullet was used ! same with PPP which burned whole pakistan, no bullet was fired but here everything is used and the gov is trying to paint one-sided story by instructing media not to show name of tlp or show their point of view . this is seculars and liberal thought and every religious person who has love of islam is also watching this hypocrisy . i can say this i hope that islamic parties come out of playing nice in the face of aggression like other parties ... they have right to protest and if this administration uses force then they will have to think about some heavy measures. this cannot go on without any response while our civilized seculars use heavy handiness and bullets .
stay on topic please. take Imran Khan specific hatred to another thread. thx.
 

Hassan90

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Let's be honest about these so called Mullahs. There are probably the biggest enemies of Muslims because they have twisted and faked and misinterpreted the teachings of Islam and the prophet. And to top it, have you ever thought how easily has US/West have used these people as a tool to destroy Muslims countries via civil wars??
the same lines used by bush/tony blaire/netanjahoo and modi . what is difference between you and them ?

for ppl like you iqbal says :

In Ghulamon Ka Ye Maslak Hai Ke Naqis Hai Kitab
Ke Sikhati Nahin Momin Ko Ghulami Ke Tareeq!

Translation:
These abject slaves opine and cling to creed that Holy Book is full of flaws indeed.
They think it incomplete for this fact because it fails to teach the slavish tact.


civil wars are caused by pro western pimps who sell their whole nation.. seculars and islamhaters who dont want to listen to their public like in egypt when secular generals butchered thousands and killed a head of the state in captivity because he was from a mullah party .same with algeria .if it was not for india, our munafiq generals whould have used tanks against our religious folk ,thank god we have hindus as enemy , our generals know they will lose battle unless religiously motivated ppl support them in their war when that happens.
 
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