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IMF wants assets of Pakistani officers of grade 17 - 22 to be public.

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Which officers are you talking about?

I hope people realize that military makes a fraction of the people in a sea of government bureaucracy upon which government largess is bestowed.

The entire military has no more than 500 BPS-21/22 officers (Maj Gen - Lt Gen and including PN and PAF officers of the same rank). The rest of our bureaucracy has a few thousand more. I don't think the government pays for anyone's education, medical or retirement "overseas".

If someone needs acute medical attention offered only overseas then that decision is made on a case by case basis. There is no "khula khata" for all officials getting these benefits overseas. Its expensive enough to offer them their benefits in-country.
lastly if everyone gets their medical done in Pakistan then medical scene in Pakistan will have to get better, same with education and post retirement. if they have to live in Pakistan post retirement then safety and security will have to be taken seriously.

people marry their children to obtain more power. this dystopian elitist hold on the nation will be kept in check.
 

iLION12345_1

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stop spreading lies.!
Kiyani is settled in Australia, Melbourne.
Musharaf and his kids in Dubhai
Bajwa in belgium
There arw couple in texas , they own gas stations.
General Pasha is living and working abroad same for raheel.
And dont get me started about PAF there a shit load of them working in lockeed and other small defense or aviation industries.
Same goes for their kids. In the name of national security they sent their kids abroad and when they retire their kids apply for their parents citizenship.
So better keep your mouth closed.
Kiyani is not settled in Australia. He lives in Pakistan. Nor are all of his children abroad.
Bajwa is also still in Pakistan, though he has done and is doing enough corruption as is, he doesn’t need to go anywhere else to do it.
Musharraf was also in Pakistan until his health deteriorated, and What about General Raheel and Pasha? Are they not allowed to find work outside after retiring as many Pakistanis do? What does that have to do with anything?
Karamat, Sher Afghan, Kakar, Sohail Aman, all in Pakistan.

I recognize and am extremely, extremely against the corruption and the political meddling of the army and all the shit bajwa and Co. have done to Pakistan, but please stop spreading these useless, baseless and stupid lies about army officers sending their kids abroad or being extremely rich and all of them being corrupt. It’s a small percentage that is making the entire flock look bad.

The average army officer, not even at the rank of a Lt Gen, earns enough to send his kids abroad to study, trust me, I know from personal experience, Pakistanis just like to believe everything they read on Facebook and WhatsApp when they’re emotional. Even generals from Bajwa and Asim Munirs Era, I know most of them personally, are not corrupt and are earning, in or outside Pakistan, the same as anyone from any other service in Pakistan would be after retiring.

Only when army officers get involved in corruption do they get this type of money, and that’s a very small amount. Thing is, that’s not the problem, even if all 300 generals of the PA are absolutely corrupt then they are not effecting Pakistans economy as much as a single sector of the civilian government (I’m not justifying their corruption, I’m just saying it’s not a major issue). So the issue is not Monetary corruption, that’s a very secondary problem that will fix itself once the main issue is fixed:

The issue is that these same generals who are corrupt, also have political power, which they are using to destroy the nation, so the solution here is to fix the system that allows anyone to misuse said power, not go after individuals, because if the system isn’t fixed, more corrupt individuals will take their place. Yes there is a culture of elitism that has most definitely developed around the military, and again, i totally recognize that, but that is also a secondary problem that will fix itself once the main issue is addressed. All of it goes back to fixing the system, not just of the army of the entire working of the country. The army is not unique in this. We need to stop people from being able to get to this stage, not go after the ones that have already done it, it’s a waste of time and resources. I get the nation is mad at traitors, but until we keep going after traitors, we will stay stuck in a circle where new ones will keep coming in.

The constitution of Pakistan is trash, I don’t know how or why it is seen as word of god inside this country when it has done so little for the nation, it is an ambiguous pile of loopholes that needs to be rewritten for the ground up, that’s the problem we need to be worrying about, not some generals sending their kid to Australia.
 
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COOKie LOOkie....

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Kiyani is not settled in Australia. He lives in Pakistan. Nor are all of his children abroad.
Bajwa is also still in Pakistan, though he has done and is doing enough corruption as is, he doesn’t need to go anywhere else to do it.
Musharraf was also in Pakistan until his health deteriorated, and What about General Raheel and Pasha? Are they not allowed to find work outside after retiring as many Pakistanis do? What does that have to do with anything?
Karamat, Sher Afghan, Kakar, Sohail Aman, all in Pakistan.

I recognize and am extremely, extremely against the corruption and the political meddling of the army and all the shit bajwa and Co. have done to Pakistan, but please stop spreading these useless, baseless and stupid lies about army officers sending their kids abroad or being extremely rich and all of them being corrupt. It’s a small percentage that is making the entire flock look bad.

The average army officer, not even at the rank of a Lt Gen, earns enough to send his kids abroad to study, trust me, I know from personal experience, Pakistanis just like to believe everything they read on Facebook and WhatsApp when they’re emotional. Even generals from Bajwa and Asim Munirs Era, I know most of them personally, are not corrupt and are earning, in or outside Pakistan, the same as anyone from any other service in Pakistan would be after retiring.

Only when army officers get involved in corruption do they get this type of money, and that’s a very small amount. Thing is, that’s not the problem, even if all 300 generals of the PA are absolutely corrupt then they are not effecting Pakistans economy as much as a single sector of the civilian government (I’m not justifying their corruption, I’m just saying it’s not a major issue). So the issue is not Monetary corruption, that’s a very secondary problem that will fix itself once the main issue is fixed:

The issue is that these same generals who are corrupt, also have political power, which they are using to destroy the nation, so the solution here is to fix the system that allows anyone to misuse said power, not go after individuals, because if the system isn’t fixed, more corrupt individuals will take their place.
Yes i never said anything about their corruption, all i did was mentioned the people that are living abroad. And trust me there are plenty of army brats and retired officers in US but mostly in Europe.
Lower grade officers pay is not enough for a family there’s no doubt there.
I am not trying to bash the army i am just stating what i have seen.
 

iLION12345_1

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Yes i never said anything about their corruption, all i did was mentioned the people that are living abroad. And trust me there are plenty of army brats and retired officers in US but mostly in Europe.
Lower grade officers pay is not enough for a family there’s no doubt there.
I am not trying to bash the army i am just stating what i have seen.
Again, not unique to the army, 800000 people leave Pakistan every year to work or live in other countries, a small percentage of them are from army families, I’m willing to bet that %Age is not much higher than the %age of people in Pakistan who actually belong to army families, it’s not really an anomaly. Pakistanis just like to point it out as an extra fact to hold against the army personnel (not defending the army here, just stating facts, because the facts are that corrupt officers are far more dangerous to Pakistan when they’re inside Pakistan than when they go outside. So I’d rather worry more about the ones still In service and still in the country, doesn’t matter where they go after retiring).
 

COOKie LOOkie....

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Again, not unique to the army, 800000 people leave Pakistan every year to work or live in other countries, a small percentage of them are from army families, I’m willing to bet that %Age is not much higher than the %age of people in Pakistan who actually belong to army families, it’s not really an anomaly. Pakistanis just like to point it out as an extra fact to hold against the army personnel (not defending the army here, just stating facts, because the facts are that corrupt officers are far more dangerous to Pakistan when they’re inside Pakistan than when they go outside. So I’d rather worry more about the ones still In service and still in the country, doesn’t matter where they go after retiring).
Obviously its not. them poor kids come here to study or work. starting with doing uber eats or other small minimum wage jobs while in school.
But once they are here they find out how Fuck3d up Pakistan system is.
What i am against is the elite generals cashing out their services, they might be enough in %age but significant enough to leave a print on the army.
Theres a college Called Claremont college its a private college and you will see kids of elites from pakistan, india and other 3rd world nation and also elite americans kids there.
Everyones know their parents are corrupt there. 😂
 

iLION12345_1

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Obviously its not. them poor kids come here to study or work. starting with doing uber eats or other small minimum wage jobs while in school.
But once they are here they find out how Fuck3d up Pakistan system is.
What i am against is the elite generals cashing out their services, they might be enough in %age but significant enough to leave a print on the army.
Theres a college Called Claremont college its a private college and you will see kids of elites from pakistan, india and other 3rd world nation and also elite americans kids there.
Everyones know their parents are corrupt there. 😂
I’ve heard of that College yes, goes to show that humans are the same just about everywhere, but even then we always manage to impress.
 

blain2

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stop spreading lies.!
Kiyani is settled in Australia, Melbourne.
Musharaf and his kids in Dubhai
Bajwa in belgium
There arw couple in texas , they own gas stations.
General Pasha is living and working abroad same for raheel.
And dont get me started about PAF there a shit load of them working in lockeed and other small defense or aviation industries.
Same goes for their kids. In the name of national security they sent their kids abroad and when they retire their kids apply for their parents citizenship.
So better keep your mouth closed.


No such thing as 23. 22 is the highest in Pakistan in all government jobs. So a professor from a University and COAS are the same grade scale a d pay grade.
I don't spread lies, if anything I am trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. Think before shooting from the hip.

I could very easily settle this argument by asking you to provide proof that Kiyani and Bajwa have emigrated/permanently settled in the countries you claim. You have none so I won't bother. I already disclosed about Musharraf (poor guy is on his last leg).

None of the other PA CoAS are settled overseas (I mentioned 5 others). Even if some other officers have, a very small percentage, that is not the norm which is missed out here. I remember CAS Anwar Shahmim's family moved to Virginia, United States but all of the other CAS are settled and living in Pakistan.

Also, if PAF officers retire and go into private sector, how is that your or our concern? Are they not entitled to working overseas or even locally post retirement?

Last, COAS is not the same pay scale as a university professor. There is an entire structure for gazetted officers and the chiefs of the services do not align with BPS-22. As I mentioned BPS-22 is up till 3 star. There is a special category for 4 stars and equivalent officials in other parts of the government bureacracy.
 

FuturePAF

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IMF is better off guaranteeing collateral of premises such as Railways, Airports, Parliament building, Supreme court, GHQ, Pakistani embassies abroard.

In Pakistan, its all about plots. In case of no loan payments, the IMF can just swoop in and take over the real estate.
Who is going to enforce it in Pakistan? While overseas, the IMF can work through other governments to enforce the terms of the loan.
 

COOKie LOOkie....

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I don't spread lies, if anything I am trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. Think before shooting from the hip.

I could very easily settle this argument by asking you to provide proof that Kiyani and Bajwa have emigrated/permanently settled in the countries you claim. You have none so I won't bother. I already disclosed about Musharraf (poor guy is on his last leg).

None of the other PA CoAS are settled overseas (I mentioned 5 others). Even if some other officers have, a very small percentage, that is not the norm which is missed out here. I remember CAS Anwar Shahmim's family moved to Virginia, United States but all of the other CAS are settled and living in Pakistan.

Also, if PAF officers retire and go into private sector, how is that your or our concern? Are they not entitled to working overseas or even locally post retirement?

Last, COAS is not the same pay scale as a university professor. There is an entire structure for gazetted officers and the chiefs of the services do not align with BPS-22. As I mentioned BPS-22 is up till 3 star. There is a special category for 4 stars and equivalent officials in other parts of the government bureacracy.
I dont understand your argument.
U said its a lie they don’t settle abroad after retirement and i said thats not completely true. some do settle.
Idc what paf officials do after retirement, they have every right to anywhere they want. i was just stating the fact that they are more than you think settled here working.
Dont ask me for proof, ask your ministry of defense about the people working abroad, as they need their approval not mine.

And no COAS is still considered BS22 , there isn’t a higher scale then that.
COAS is the office he holds not the designation, He still is a Lt.General by designation, he can a 5 stars if he wants to
but thats not how the BS scale works. it’s works on designation not stars.
what COAS is, a head of a department you can say, with more authority then anyone else in the same institute but still he is considered BS22. same goes for bureaucracy, they are structured the same way as any other government employee.
Anyone who can be higher than BS 22, is governors, state secretary or Senators.

Universities have regular bS 22 professors and then they have meritoriously BS 22 professor. same as any other gov institution.
Meritorious > regular professors but still same scale.

So technically a meritorious professor or a Vice chancellor are same as COAS by rank and scale but if its a questions of anyone EGO involved then sure COAS beats everyone.

What does this mean? Kids are essential for national security and hence have to stay abroad?
My bad i meant, its a security risk for their kids to be in living Pakistan. thats why they have to live abroad.
 
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epebble

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IMF is better off guaranteeing collateral of premises such as Railways, Airports, Parliament building, Supreme court, GHQ, Pakistani embassies abroard.

In Pakistan, its all about plots. In case of no loan payments, the IMF can just swoop in and take over the real estate.
That will create strife. Far better to insist all accounts be made public. And to enforce it through thorough audit every quarter or six months. IMF should fill the role of external auditor for a public company and issue audited statements every quarter. Once there is enough sunshine, a lot of germs will die.
 

Bleek

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The IMF has always understood the Pakistani economy and the reasons for its downfall far better than anyone inside Pakistan, especially its government and foreign ministers ever have, simply because the IMF, for all its flaws or not, is actually a finance related company with actual experts.

Pakistanis just love to hate the IMF because it makes realistic demands, the demands IMF makes to any other country would make total sense, but our systems are so corrupt, our people so blind and patriotism so high that we absolutely refuse to believe that we have to change to improve, instead we just toss IMF into the usual “the world is against us and this institution is controlled by the west” bucket and call it a day instead of realizing that if all of IMFs directives were to be followed, Pakistan would most likely be out of the gutter right now. Yes the people would have suffered massively in the short run, but when you sink your country so low, that’s the only way to fix it.

A good government would have balanced IMF demands while also making sure the people weren’t getting too pressured, though a more IMF-centric approach would still be the solution at the end of the day. But yet again, our politicians messed up, both the PTI, who simply refused to listen to any of IMFs demands in order to keep the public happy, and the PDM, who did the same at first but took it so far that the country hit crisis levels and jumped headfirst into the IMF to try and fix things, not realizing how badly the people would be effected. And yet the followers of both sides will keep trying to blindly defend their parties.
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VCheng

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blain2

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I dont understand your argument.
U said its a lie they don’t settle abroad after retirement and i said thats not completely true. some do settle.
Idc what paf officials do after retirement, they have every right to anywhere they want. i was just stating the fact that they are more than you think settled here working.
Dont ask me for proof, ask your ministry of defense about the people working abroad, as they need their approval not mine.

And no COAS is still considered BS22 , there isn’t a higher scale then that.
COAS is the office he holds not the designation, He still is a Lt.General by designation, he can a 5 stars if he wants to
but thats not how the BS scale works. it’s works on designation not stars.
what COAS is, a head of a department you can say, with more authority then anyone else in the same institute but still he is considered BS22. same goes for bureaucracy, they are structured the same way as any other government employee.
Anyone who can be higher than BS 22, is governors, state secretary or Senators.

Universities have regular bS 22 professors and then they have meritoriously BS 22 professor. same as any other gov institution.
Meritorious > regular professors but still same scale.

So technically a meritorious professor or a Vice chancellor are same as COAS by rank and scale but if its a questions of anyone EGO involved then sure COAS beats everyone.


My bad i meant, its a security risk for their kids to be in living Pakistan. thats why they have to live abroad.
I am just bringing context to this claim that they all settle overseas etc. as has been mentioned ad nauseam on this forum. All people can barely manage is 5 names from an army with 400 general officers and even the names managed indicate nothing of a trend. Actually the inverse is the norm i.e. 99.9% live their post-retirement lives in Pakistan.

It is the exaggeration of the issue which deserves a response to set the record straight.

On the pay scale issue, you probably know more. There is a mention of BPS-Spec and BPS-Apex beyond BPS-22 in the official Pakistan Gazette.
 
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