• Wednesday, August 12, 2020

If Pakistan had money would the western countries sell their weapons to us?

Discussion in 'Strategic & Foreign Affairs' started by HttpError, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. HttpError

    HttpError SENIOR MEMBER

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    Although I am not a big fan of importing defense-related products as you can never become self-reliant and will always be at the mercy of the seller. However, not everyone can produce a state of the art equipment for example 5th Generation Fighter jets.

    As you may know, India has received its 5 Rafales, and that is because they have deep pockets. Yes, their poverty rate is also extremely high but as a big country, they do have big pockets. What if we had money, would France sell us their Rafales or Itlay would sell us their Astras?

    We all know Lockheed Martin is looking for customers to keep their F-16 line going what if we had money would they be able to sell us they "F-21" with the same terms they were offering to India?

    What do you guys think? One thing is for certain, in international relations, it is all about interest and money dictates those interests.
     
  2. Nike

    Nike ELITE MEMBER

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    with more money at least you will had more options at hands compared when you don't have. Money will made your option more broaden.
     
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  3. Dalit

    Dalit ELITE MEMBER

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    That is a big resounding NO. Right now India is a Western cheerleader. China too has loads of money, but there is an embargo. Money alone won't get anyone Western weapons. Western nations need US permission to sell to other nations.

    During Cold War and even before that we were a so-called US ally. Back then, the Europeans were selling to Pakistan. Since daddy America decided to not sell to Pakistan, European stooges followed in the same foot steps.

    In my opinion, it is better to focus on improving the domestic defence industry. China is a very good ally to have. We have learnt a lot through China. Pakistan must continue to become self-sufficient. Pakistan should build all major weapons inside Pakistan. From fighter jets to tanks and frigates. That is worth a million times more than buying Western weapons and spending hard earned revenue to outsiders.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  4. KaiserX

    KaiserX FULL MEMBER

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    No, with regards to Europe/Canada to be frank they would not. Pakistan issue had barely to do with funds. From the 90s onwards the west did not want to accept a muslim country having nukes. They came to except this unfaithfully later due to the help Pakistan provided with the Afghanistan misadventure.

    If today Pakistan had even a trillion dollars most western countries would refrain from selling weapons to Pakistan because they still would not like to except a powerful muslim country that can challenge their influence in the middle east, africa, or asia. Take for example Turkey, which is a wealthy muslim country when compared to Pakistan?

    Now with regards to the US, that is a little different story. The military-industrial complex in the US holds a huge influence as does the deep state. If they feel Pakistan can be useful in any way vis via their foreign policy then yes they would be willing to sell Pakistan weapons BUT with conditions. These conditions would be based off of the US strategic foreign policy goals and how Pakistan could be useful. A few examples being the following:

    1. Keeping US influence in Afghanstan/Great Central asia
    2. Challenging Chinese influence in Pakistan itself (US may compete against China for favors with Pakistan)
    3. Challenge India and keep it bogged down (As India grows the US might feel threatened a few decades down the line and see Pakistan as a strategic counterweight to keep India in check. Similar to how India is used today against China)
    4. Possible interest in jointly confronting an extremist Iran (If the mullahs get way to out of hand. This is a very real possibility)

    So the Europe a big NO the US a YES WITH CONDITIONS.
     
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  5. blain2

    blain2 ADVISORS

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    Absolutely and my view is exactly the opposite of my fellow member above ;-). Pakistan can buy more F-16s, AH-1Zs etc. if it has the money. This is a simple fact. Pakistan is under no sanctions regime. Pakistan has working ties with all of the EU countries and the United States. In 2005, when the order was placed for the F-16s, the US side was very open to larger numbers (with option to go to 36 for blk52s), however all of it comes down to money.

    If the Saudis and Emeratis can buy all the gear they need from the West while waging a war in Yemen, why could Pakistan not do so as long as it had the funds?

    We need to stop making victims out of ourselves. The world is not out to get Pakistan. We need to have the fiscal space to make such purchases. All of the defense industry in the West needs this money and they have the clout to push these deals through their governments.
     
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  6. arjunk

    arjunk FULL MEMBER

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    Yes. US defence contractors love their money. That's why they fight useless wars.
     
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  7. fhk86khan1

    fhk86khan1 FULL MEMBER

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    Completely agree...Western countries will sell Pakistan whatever we can afford. They are not interested in giving us discounts or grants...cold hard cash...and you can pretty much buy anything they offer...with limited exceptions.

    Pakistan being a Muslim country or a nuclear power won't be significant when negotiating a $20 billion fighter deal...they won't sell you something they can't shoot down or overcome...but that doesn't have anything to do with a "Pakistan" only bias.

    Weather we should purchase equipment from them or not is a separate debate...but yes...they'll sell 90% of their tech...no problem.
     
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  8. Dalit

    Dalit ELITE MEMBER

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    I fully agree with the above. The Westerners became very sour after Pak nuclear adventure. Not to even mention the terrorism charges over the past decades.

    We became the punching bag the moment we went nuclear. LOL we laughed it off. Even if the Americans offered us thousands of F-16s it couldn't equal our nuclear status.
     
  9. nahtanbob

    nahtanbob BANNED

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    the answer is yes. the real question is whether Pakistan can pay hard cash for anything. Given Pakistan's military budget and reliance on China there are little funds available for big ticket purchases from Western defense contractors
     
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  10. Pandora

    Pandora SENIOR MEMBER

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    Pakistan can very much afford Western weapons in current budget but problem is not the money here. US and West sell most of their products to Pakistan with strings attached to them. Our nuclear program is the biggest bone of contention between us.
     
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  11. Dalit

    Dalit ELITE MEMBER

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    Agreed. It is a very contentious and often problematic issue for the West. The West just doesn't like the idea of seeing a Muslim nuclear power. They can have as many nukes between them. Israel can have them. India can have them. A Muslim country can never have them. This is not a Pakistan centric issue. It is a Muslim issue. Whether it is Pakistan, Iran, Turkey or the Saudis. It a cardinal sin for any Muslim country to possess such weapons.
     
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  12. Saleet

    Saleet FULL MEMBER

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    No. Musharraf tried to buy western Avionics for JF17 but they clearly denied.
     
  13. LeGenD

    LeGenD MODERATOR

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    Let me make this very simple: MONEY TALKS - BS WALKS

    Military-to-Military contacts develop on professional grounds, and can have an impact on foreign policy decisions.

    If I am not wrong, UK had no issue selling Typhoons to Pakistan.

    US will not have issue selling even F-16 Block 70/72 to Pakistan. Even Obama administration which did not see Pakistan in positive light, was willing to sell F-16 Block 52+ to Pakistan but on the condition that these should be PAID FOR and not through AID PACKAGE.

    American Military Industrial Complex (MIC) has a BIG HEART, mind you. :enjoy:

    A lot would on OFFER to Pakistan if WE show HUGE SUM OF MONEY.

    Even joint-venture of sorts would be on the cards.

    Business.
     
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  14. Salza

    Salza SENIOR MEMBER

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    Of course yes.
     
  15. Dalit

    Dalit ELITE MEMBER

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    Forget the Europeans for a moment who are undoubtedly fervent haters of Pakistan.

    Let's focus on the US which has traditionally sold offensive weapons to Pakistan. The Americans didn't even deliver F-16s which we bought with hard cash LOL That is right. We gave them hard cash and instead we got soyabeans.

    People are kidding themselves if they think the West would sell serious offensive weapons to Pakistan. There is a serious hate relation. The sooner we admit this the better. We cannot leave any room for ambiguity.
     
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