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If India is the superpower in software why did it buy an Israeli spyware?

siegecrossbow

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Bilal9

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ya that's the problem...these ppl and there over expectation and ultimately disappointment...


i wont share those news but one of them accuse BD of data fudging and forget entire world from Bloomberg to financial times exposed india's fake GDP growth...

and it is just pure satisfaction despite all these they are now behind us...a poor LDC lmao....after telling the entire world they will be super power by now like a broken record.
Delusion thy name is India.

Remember some Hindutva Idiot in Bangladesh was claiming that Vatican was owned by Hindus, Kaaba was owned by Hindus. All stolen from Hindus.

I mean we should just ignore these Hindutva idiots, but there are plenty of uneducated people in India who believe Hindutva crap...

And more on topic, plenty of pseudo educated Sanghis who believe India is a software SUPA PAWA, while in actuality most of them are low cost cheap IT coolies with next to zero talent.
 

Bilal9

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The Myth Of India's Information Technology Industry


by Tyler Durden
Jul 26, 2017 6:30 PM


A Shift in Perception – Indians in Silicon Valley
When I was studying in the UK in early 90s, I was often asked about cows, elephants and snake-charmers on the roads in India. A shift in public perception - not in the associated reality - was however starting to happen. India would soon become known for its vibrant IT industry.



Friends and family are helping students taking university exams with cheating. 2.5 million candidates, many of them with PhDs or post-graduates, recently applied for 6,000 of the lowest level job positions (“grade D”) available in West Bengal, which require no more than an early-stage school education. While India produces the largest number of PhDs, engineers, etc. in the world, the educational system is in reality in a shambles and a complete joke. Most of these people are in fact unemployable. [The incredible scene above took place in Bihar and is explained in greater detail here. Relatives of students are scaling the walls of the examination center to pass on cheat sheets to their offspring. Policemen who were supposed to guard examination buildings were often bribed to look the other way. A total of 6 to 7 million people across India were estimated to provide cheating assistance. [PT]]





A similar scene at another examination center in Bihar. In several locations parents and relatives even clashed with police who tried to keep them from scaling the walls (which is actually quite risky). Here is a You-tube video showing a TV report on the “massive family affair” the exam turned into, which is in parts quite funny. You will inter alia notice that students who get caught cheating by their teachers sometimes have to expect the kind of traditional instant punishment that would be frowned upon in politically correct Western societies, but which probably has the advantage of being memorable (here is another video of the collective cheating effort; and here is Mr. Bean taking an exam). [PT]

As more IT graduates from India moved to the US to work, they lobbied to change how India was viewed, not because India had actually changed or because they cared for India, but because from their tribal perspective, this reflected well on them. This process went hand in hand with the emerging trend toward political correctness in the West - people in the West became keen to exaggerate the successes of India and other “emerging markets” to prove their non-racist orientation.

Today, Silicon Valley has quite a visible Indian population and many of its members are very talented and in top positions.
This helped change the perception of India. There are a total of one million Indian engineers and scientists in the US. To put this number into perspective, the population of India increases by more than a million souls every month.

These were the best and the brightest of India, and while their number is not even noise in the grand scheme of things, the exception to the rule began to be seen as the rule. A completely faulty assumption was taking root, namely that India is a land of high-tech people. Neither Indians nor politically correct Westerners challenged this notion.

Indians were hired by Americans based on meritocratic principles, but as more Indians rose to the top, they tended to hire based on tribal affiliations. Again, this tribalism has nothing to do with trying to help their brethren. Mostly it is about the comfort tribal people feel working with their own kind, despite harboring concomitant feelings of disdain. An Indian boss finds it easier to get away with abusing his Indian staff.

Apart from visible high-caliber Indians in the IT industry in the US, most of these employees are actually C-level, sweatshop labor, who work for a lot less than what Americans would be prepared to accept. Many of those who did not learn programming in the US are known for writing error-prone code that cannot be maintained. Moreover, they have developed a reputation for being pompous. Americans find it difficult to complain, as they don’t want to risk looking racist.

An outsized number of Indians in the position of recruiters tend to favor Indians, once again not for reasons of empathy, but merely for the comfort they feel in managing expectations. The lottery system associated with H1B visa is riddled with manipulated multiple filings and fake resumes – stories about this abound.

The IT Industry in India
Even within India, the IT industry is not what many people believe it to be. The IT sector accounts for 9.3% of the country’s GDP, or about $150 billion. While the Indian IT industry looks big from an Indian perspective, it is miniscule even in comparison with China, let alone the US.

In total, a mere 3.7 million out of India’s population of 1,350 million people are employed in the IT industry. Again, most of them are working as better-paid sweat-labor, forever ready to jump to a slightly better job offer. Creative, innovative work is almost never sent to India.

As time has passed it has become increasingly difficult for political correctness to suppress the fact that much of the code written by Indian IT programmers is of inferior quality. Indian IT firms are losing business and sadly the one industry that led most of India’s growth over the last three decades is rapidly shedding employees.

An Indian friend who has worked for many years in the IT industry, in and outside of India told me:

The Indian IT sector, excluding the work that gets done at Microsoft, Google, Intel and few research-based companies, is the biggest joke of the millennium. Service-based companies within India, including well-known Indian names, try to skim clients big-time and operate with meager productivity. It really doesn’t make surprise me when many Indians in IT are losing their jobs because of their irresponsibility and indecent behavior. They treat their offices as their own private place to hang around, chit-chatting with colleagues, talking about their private lives publicly. Managers, mostly incompetent at work have zero-tolerance towards their subordinates, are sexist, and lure their female subordinates.”

Will Indians one day sit back and reflect that their lack of reason, their tribalism and superstitions are the reason for the utter backwardness and wretchedness, which is letting the one small advantage Indians had slip by?



The flaws of Indian coders have made headlines before. The article from which the above exhortation was taken, appeared in 2015 after Snapdeal cheerfully declared that ‘right programmers are rare in India’” and inter alia notes that “India’s education system has failed its citizens”. The problems with many Indian coders are deemed to consist of “rote-learning, lack of research and Gestalt skills and an inability to be innovative even while they possess the talent”. Two years earlier, the Atlantic had already published a “behind the scenes” article on the topic as well, which also blames the Indian education system for the situation and includes a forecast that the amount of coding work outsourced to India is likely to drop – to the chagrin of many newly-minted, but apparently poorly trained Indian programmers. [PT]

Here is a comment by Vidyanshu Pandey, who in the past worked as a coder, in delivery management, as a software architect, and is currently in IT sales and management consulting:

The combination of all these factors creates IT services that are cheap, but unsustainable. Wage hikes and inflation will make Indian IT services non-competitive. Moreover, the Chinese have rapidly become quite good in English and programming. The quality of their work is high, they have excellent skills in cyber-security, data-science and AI, and they constantly win the International Programming Olympics, a recognition that has mostly eluded Indians. Chinese coders are also happy to put in long hours, without complaining. Also, I find Filipinos to be very good, as well as the Vietnamese. I see a decline coming in India’s IT industry soon. The easy money of the past several years has encouraged materialism, hedonism and decadence. As IT has spearheaded growth of the middle class, its coming downturn may well herald its decline.”

Quiet Changes
Inside the country, Indians have increased their gold hoarding.
There is no way to know how much they are really buying, as a lot of gold comes into the country through smuggling. Those who can are moving their gold and wealth abroad. They are increasing their purchases of properties outside the country, in the process contributing to property price increases in the US, in London, Thailand, and so forth.

A very large number of Directors of publicly-listed Indian companies are officially residents of Singapore, Hong Kong or Dubai. 30% of the people living in the UAE are from India. Of course, not much of this shows up in statistics.

Every Indian I know would emigrate today if he could. Most want to live under institutions created by Europeans. Hypocritically, those who cannot emigrate, and particularly those who do manage to do so, vociferously claim that European colonization of the third world was somehow an unmitigated calamity. It wasn’t. Without the British running India, India is rapidly on its way to utter chaos, disintegration and what will likely end up becoming a major humanitarian crisis.
 

UDAYCAMPUS

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Delusion thy name is India.

Remember some Hindutva Idiot in Bangladesh was claiming that Vatican was owned by Hindus, Kaaba was owned by Hindus. All stolen from Hindus.

I mean we should just ignore these Hindutva idiots, but there are plenty of uneducated people in India who believe Hindutva crap...

And more on topic, plenty of pseudo educated Sanghis who believe India is a software SUPA PAWA, while in actuality most of them are low cost cheap IT coolies with next to zero talent.
And you said you won't post anymore lol, trolling is that itch you just have to scratch eh? :lol:
 

SN320

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Sorry folks, India is in a different orbit now from our neighbors. No need to bitch and moan about Indian software capability, it looks childish

A Tech IPO Boom Is Coming to Unicorn-Rich India
Many online businesses have thrived despite the pandemic and enjoy strong brand recognition

Last week investors placed orders worth 38 times the shares being offered by food-delivery startup Zomato.
PHOTO: SUDIPTA DAS/PACIFIC PRESS/ZUMA PRESS
By Shefali Anand
Updated July 21, 2021 11:53 pm ET
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TEXT

NEW DELHI—India is gearing up for tech IPOs, including two worth more than $1 billion, as startups look to tap a stock market that has proved resilient despite Covid-19.

The initial public offerings reflect the maturing of a generation of e-commerce and digital-economy companies, bankers say, many of which have grown rapidly during the pandemic as well-off city-dwellers turn to them when purchasing products from milk to medicines.

On July 16, the operator of the Paytm digital-finance app, One97 Communications Ltd., filed a prospectus for what would be India’s largest IPO in local-currency terms. The group offers services such as a mobile wallet, loans and stock-trading, and is backed by Jack Ma’s Chinese financial-technology giant Ant Group Co. One97 aims to issue new and existing shares worth a total of up to 166 billion rupees, the equivalent of $2.23 billion.

Other companies considering IPOs include digital-payments platform One MobiKwik Systems Ltd., which filed its prospectus earlier this month, and logistics and supply-chain-services provider Delhivery Pvt., according to a company spokeswoman. Online cosmetics seller Nykaa E-Retail Pvt., API Holdings Pvt., the parent company of online pharmacy PharmEasy, and PB Fintech Pvt., the parent of insurance aggregator Policybazaar.com, are also considering listings, according to people familiar with their plans.

“This is the first set of these companies coming to the public market” in India, said Kaustubh Kulkarni, the head of investment banking for India at the local unit of JPMorgan Chase & Co.

Demand for the shares is likely to be strong, given the companies’ brand recognition, said Mr. Kulkarni, who is also the bank’s co-head of investment banking for South and Southeast Asia. “Most of these companies are offering products, services or capabilities which millions, if not hundreds of millions, of customers are utilizing on a day-to-day basis,” he said.

Last week investors placed orders worth 38 times the shares being offered by Zomato Ltd., India’s answer to DoorDash Inc. The food-delivery group raised around 94 billion rupees, the equivalent of $1.26 billion, and its shares are due to start trading on July 27.

Some market-watchers say Indian tech has plenty of room to grow, as more consumption shifts online. Earlier-stage investors have poured about $16 billion into Indian startups this year, creating 16 new unicorns—young private companies valued at $1 billion or more—according to data firm Venture Intelligence.

India’s unicorn population will rise to 150 by 2025 from 60 now, predicted Gaurav Singhal, the head of India consumer technology at Bank of America Corp. ’s investment-banking arm. Many will eventually look to float, he said, translating into a big increase in market capitalization.

“India will see $300 billion to $400 billion of market-cap creation in the internet ecosystem in the next five years,” said Mr. Singhal.

The deals already under way show how India’s financial sector has been swept up in an international boom, even as the country records more than 30,000 new Covid-19 cases a day, among the highest daily counts in the world.

Already this year, India has hosted a rush of IPOs—joining a global surge fueled in part by tech companies from elsewhere in Asia, such as China’s Kuaishou Technology and South Korea’s Coupang Inc.

India’s 22 IPOs in the first six months of 2021 brought in $3.7 billion, a record half-year haul, according to Prime Database Group, a research firm in New Delhi. Shares in some recently listed companies are trading at twice their IPO price.

At the same time, Indian stock indexes have soared as investors bet on big listed companies. The S&P BSE Sensex has hit a series of record highs, most recently on July 15, and international investors have poured about $7.7 billion into Indian shares this year, official data shows.

Millions of individual Indian investors are trading stocks for the first time, again mirroring trends seen in the U.S. and some other markets.

Harpreet Singh, a 23-year-old from the northern city of Pathankot, started dabbling in the market last year while waiting for the chance to study abroad.

Relying on advice from videos on YouTube and Telegram, Mr. Singh said, he has lost money at times—but still finds trading stocks more appealing than getting a job in his hometown, where he said private-sector work pays barely 10,000 rupees a month, equivalent to about $134.

“If you have knowledge of stocks,” he said, “then in three to four months you can earn hundreds of thousands of rupees, sitting at home.”

 

Bilal9

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This is from an Indian ASIC designer himself. Sounds like he is a little bit disillusioned about all this hoopla on Indian SUPA PAWA this and that (specifically Chip FABs) and why these high risk investments or any High Risk Investments will never be made in India - reinforced my belief that production in India consists of low risk low capital FMCG items manufacture like Amla Kesh Taila (Hair oil), Paan Ghutka (Betel nut mix) and Hajmola candy....so much for PLI scheme and "Mak een Endeya"! :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vijayvithal Jahagirdar, Designing ASIC's since 1999
Answered Feb 10

Quoting from, Semi industry fab costs limit industry growth | EE Times,
By 2020, current cost trends will lead to an average cost of between $15 billion and $20 billion for a leading-edge fab, according to the report. By 2016, the minimum capital expenditure budget needed to justify the building of a new fab will range from $8 billion to $10 billion for logic, $3.5 billion to $4.5 billion for DRAM and $6 billion to $7 billion for NAND flash, according to the report.

It is Expensive
Every company which wants to setup a fab in India wants the government to finance a significant portion of the fab cost. i.e. At current rates, the government should spend around Rs 70,000 Crores to get a fab at the current technology node.


The cost of doing an infrastructure project in India is at least twice that of rest of the world so the Fab cost will exceed 140,000 Crore.

Bureaucracy

There is a very small window in which a fab can win business. Once every 2–3 years companies on the leading technology edge move to the next technology node. If you want them to come to your fab instead of say GF, TSMC or Samsung you should be agile and be ready to target that window of 2–6 months where the foundry decision is being made… By the time to government appointed expert committee to recommend action based on the inputs from expert committee which was setup to review the financial feasibility of the proposal given by expert committee setup to check the technical feasibility report is available, this window would have closed.

Corruption
While setting up the fab your equipment has the tendency to get stuck in customs until certain “fees” are paid, all these can lead to loss of crucial ramp up time leading to loss of customer’s, penalties etc.

Political extortion
Even if the current government allowed you to setup the fab and facilitated everything, in a few years elections will be held and a new government sworn in, The concerned minister may call for a “review” of your project, its environment clearance, its compliance with various laws etc. If you fail to grease the right palms you might find that the fab is not compliant with some law or the other and needs to be shut down! (good luck spending the next 10 years fighting it out in the court…)

International laws

If you grease the right palms, and get your fab running you would have violated various international anti-corruption laws, So be ready to find your top management behind bars soon.

Summing it up
These are the reasons you would find that every 3–4 years some or the other company makes a hue and cry about coming to India but does not. The risk of setting up a capital intensive business in India is very high. These problems are generic, They are not only related to Fabs.

Take a look at the MoU’s signed at the various “Investor meets” across the country (India) in the past decade and check how many of them were actually executed, Take a look at the various industrial parks in India. Most of them are empty!

Look around at all the FDI that has entered India and you will find that almost all of them are “low capital, low risk” and in most of the case even the capital is taken on loan from Indian bank with the Indian operations assets built using this capital as surety

(OMG MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY: THIS GUY IS A GENIUS!!! - BILAL9)

  1. IT: Labor Intensive, Buildings are mostly leased, computers are leased, investment is in people, non people investment may at most be double the salary cost.
  2. Mining: Labor intensive, capital is used for trucks, earthmovers etc.
  3. FMCG: Cola, Chips, soaps etc.. cost of production and equipment is negligible, strength is in distribution and logistics.
  4. Fast Food: Franchise model, the outlets etc are owned by Indians, the brand owner takes a fees and a cut in profit for the use of his brand name and “consultation.
The reason you do not see Fab’s in India is the same reason you do not see any other multi-billion dollar capital investment in India.
 

Nan Yang

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But yes, despite 160,000 computer engineers graduating from Indian colleges every year and this being true for at least the last twenty years which means that there are at least three million computer engineers in India, there is not a single operating system software within an Indian name. Unfortunate.

In 2010 the Indian military organization DRDO's chief declared that the org will devise a "futuristic" operating system software soon :

Now, eleven years on in 2021, DRDO still hasn't devised that operating system.

But neither has China.

@UDAYCAMPUS, please read the above.
I am not an expert on operating system but doesn't Kylin qualify as an operating system ?

From Mars to the moon: the computer system behind China’s space missions
  • Chinese researchers developed the Kylin operating system to replace the Western products the country relied on
  • Sending it into space meant combining security, reliability and performance, engineers say
Stephen Chen in Beijing
Published: 6:00am, 23 Jun, 2021
The Kylin system helps run China’s space programme. Photo: Xinhua

The Kylin system helps run China’s space programme. Photo: Xinhua

Whether it is China’s rover on Mars, its space station orbiting the Earth or its moon probe bringing back lunar samples, one little-known system is behind them all.

The core of the Kylin computer operating system has been guarded as a national secret and its use in the country’s space programme has only just been officially confirmed.

Its main codes were written by Chinese military researchers, according to developer China Electronics Corporation (CEC), but it also includes elements of Unix-like software FreeBSD, parts from Linux, and a user interface similar to Windows.

 

siegecrossbow

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International programming congest, aka, informatics Olympiad, no where is Indian seen

even Taiwan/Poland/Vietnam beat India '1.3 billion programming genius' by wide margin :rofl:

Software development is actually a lot like building construction. On one hand you have architects who plan the layout and optimizations and on the other you have the grunts who build it with brick and mortar. Guess which side of the fence the supapowans sit.
 

Bilal9

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Sorry folks, India is in a different orbit now from our neighbors. No need to bitch and moan about Indian software capability, it looks childish

A Tech IPO Boom Is Coming to Unicorn-Rich India
Many online businesses have thrived despite the pandemic and enjoy strong brand recognition

Last week investors placed orders worth 38 times the shares being offered by food-delivery startup Zomato.
PHOTO: SUDIPTA DAS/PACIFIC PRESS/ZUMA PRESS
By Shefali Anand
Updated July 21, 2021 11:53 pm ET
PRINT
TEXT

NEW DELHI—India is gearing up for tech IPOs, including two worth more than $1 billion, as startups look to tap a stock market that has proved resilient despite Covid-19.

The initial public offerings reflect the maturing of a generation of e-commerce and digital-economy companies, bankers say, many of which have grown rapidly during the pandemic as well-off city-dwellers turn to them when purchasing products from milk to medicines.

On July 16, the operator of the Paytm digital-finance app, One97 Communications Ltd., filed a prospectus for what would be India’s largest IPO in local-currency terms. The group offers services such as a mobile wallet, loans and stock-trading, and is backed by Jack Ma’s Chinese financial-technology giant Ant Group Co. One97 aims to issue new and existing shares worth a total of up to 166 billion rupees, the equivalent of $2.23 billion.

Other companies considering IPOs include digital-payments platform One MobiKwik Systems Ltd., which filed its prospectus earlier this month, and logistics and supply-chain-services provider Delhivery Pvt., according to a company spokeswoman. Online cosmetics seller Nykaa E-Retail Pvt., API Holdings Pvt., the parent company of online pharmacy PharmEasy, and PB Fintech Pvt., the parent of insurance aggregator Policybazaar.com, are also considering listings, according to people familiar with their plans.

“This is the first set of these companies coming to the public market” in India, said Kaustubh Kulkarni, the head of investment banking for India at the local unit of JPMorgan Chase & Co.

Demand for the shares is likely to be strong, given the companies’ brand recognition, said Mr. Kulkarni, who is also the bank’s co-head of investment banking for South and Southeast Asia. “Most of these companies are offering products, services or capabilities which millions, if not hundreds of millions, of customers are utilizing on a day-to-day basis,” he said.

Last week investors placed orders worth 38 times the shares being offered by Zomato Ltd., India’s answer to DoorDash Inc. The food-delivery group raised around 94 billion rupees, the equivalent of $1.26 billion, and its shares are due to start trading on July 27.

Some market-watchers say Indian tech has plenty of room to grow, as more consumption shifts online. Earlier-stage investors have poured about $16 billion into Indian startups this year, creating 16 new unicorns—young private companies valued at $1 billion or more—according to data firm Venture Intelligence.

India’s unicorn population will rise to 150 by 2025 from 60 now, predicted Gaurav Singhal, the head of India consumer technology at Bank of America Corp. ’s investment-banking arm. Many will eventually look to float, he said, translating into a big increase in market capitalization.

“India will see $300 billion to $400 billion of market-cap creation in the internet ecosystem in the next five years,” said Mr. Singhal.

The deals already under way show how India’s financial sector has been swept up in an international boom, even as the country records more than 30,000 new Covid-19 cases a day, among the highest daily counts in the world.

Already this year, India has hosted a rush of IPOs—joining a global surge fueled in part by tech companies from elsewhere in Asia, such as China’s Kuaishou Technology and South Korea’s Coupang Inc.

India’s 22 IPOs in the first six months of 2021 brought in $3.7 billion, a record half-year haul, according to Prime Database Group, a research firm in New Delhi. Shares in some recently listed companies are trading at twice their IPO price.

At the same time, Indian stock indexes have soared as investors bet on big listed companies. The S&P BSE Sensex has hit a series of record highs, most recently on July 15, and international investors have poured about $7.7 billion into Indian shares this year, official data shows.

Millions of individual Indian investors are trading stocks for the first time, again mirroring trends seen in the U.S. and some other markets.

Harpreet Singh, a 23-year-old from the northern city of Pathankot, started dabbling in the market last year while waiting for the chance to study abroad.

Relying on advice from videos on YouTube and Telegram, Mr. Singh said, he has lost money at times—but still finds trading stocks more appealing than getting a job in his hometown, where he said private-sector work pays barely 10,000 rupees a month, equivalent to about $134.

“If you have knowledge of stocks,” he said, “then in three to four months you can earn hundreds of thousands of rupees, sitting at home.”

More Dhokeybaaji by overseas Indian banyas, who will find a way to set up these fake tech companies and split town with the savings of lower middle class Indians who think a "get-rich-quick" scheme still exists. :lol:

Sad how this sort of shaky tech IPO thing still flies in India...

Read, the scam stories in the annals of Indian tech dhokeybaaji, Satyam was oversubscribed 17 times...then went bust in 2008.

https://marketfeed.news/the-infamously-famous-satyam-scam/

In any case - let these Indians lose their money any way they want...
 

jamahir

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I am not an expert on operating system but doesn't Kylin qualify as an operating system ?

From Mars to the moon: the computer system behind China’s space missions
  • Chinese researchers developed the Kylin operating system to replace the Western products the country relied on
  • Sending it into space meant combining security, reliability and performance, engineers say
Stephen Chen in Beijing
Published: 6:00am, 23 Jun, 2021
The Kylin system helps run China’s space programme. Photo: Xinhua

The Kylin system helps run China’s space programme. Photo: Xinhua

Whether it is China’s rover on Mars, its space station orbiting the Earth or its moon probe bringing back lunar samples, one little-known system is behind them all.

The core of the Kylin computer operating system has been guarded as a national secret and its use in the country’s space programme has only just been officially confirmed.

Its main codes were written by Chinese military researchers, according to developer China Electronics Corporation (CEC), but it also includes elements of Unix-like software FreeBSD, parts from Linux, and a user interface similar to Windows.

Yes, Kylin qualifies as an OS and it is fantastic that the Chinese have tweaked Kylin to be reliable and secure enough to be used on Mars and Moon missions but it is still mostly Linux. :)
 

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