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IAF to focus on bombs & air-to-air missiles for edge over Pakistan

NA71

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I am pretty sure, (call me a fool if that gives you orgasm or consult hakeem @Retired Troll ), but KLJ-7A advertised range is just a Mask used for you people. You really think that you can derive it’s range on the basis of “NO ACTUAL FACTS ABOUT KLJ-7A AIRCOOLED” ? Grow up, be realistic even if you are from India. A country which has produced 1800+T/R module radar for J-20 (rumoured even 2200+), and J-10C as well as J-16 radar also don’t count much less, That they will produce a radar for PAF and Thunder having such a petty range ?

Let me remind you, Block 2 Thunders could have changed the whole scenario that day if those 9 aircrafts were downed as well, but kon samjaye tum logon ko. Eager to see another such stupid event started by India, bring in your Rafales this time. We don’t want anything less...
Even the pilot in Rafale cockpit will be under tremendous pressure when crossing boarder next time....his mind will be occupied with fear of being hit....what will be the excuse for Modi ...agar Rafale hota...... they have already let down their front line jets SUs/and M2Ks.
 

Arulmozhi Varman

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I do not think it is as simple that the AIM-120C5 had longer range than R-77. These are just theoretical maximum range on head-on engagements and IAF still could have fought PAF even with the R-77 if their support package and tactics were better.
Just getting longer range missiles and thinking this will mean IAF does better next time is the wrong lesson from Feb 2019.
Rafale + Meteor should give IAF an edge when it arrives in May this year but this is only part of a larger package in air-warfare.
Yes and no. While tactics matter, scenarios too matter. Paf responded with 24 fighters in different theatres to fool the enemy, IAF responded with only 6 though they were able to see PAF tactics and respond only to their area PAF is going to attack. And PAF simply fired a huge number of missiles at max range just to keep IAF aircraft at bay knowing it wouldn't hit anything worthwhile. While that is a legitimate tactics, in a real war, PAF or IAF can't use this particular tactics for long when one is going to have shortage of missiles in that case.

In that scenario, one force has to come closer to score a definite hit or to establish air superiority in a sector. And that can't be achieved by firing missiles at full range.
 

taha137

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Do mind me asking what stopped IAF to employ more fighters than PAF, as they clearly have numerical advantage...
Yes and no. While tactics matter, scenarios too matter. Paf responded with 24 fighters in different theatres to fool the enemy, IAF responded with only 6 though they were able to see PAF tactics and respond only to their area PAF is going to attack. And PAF simply fired a huge number of missiles at max range just to keep IAF aircraft at bay knowing it wouldn't hit anything worthwhile. While that is a legitimate tactics, in a real war, PAF or IAF can't use this particular tactics for long when one is going to have shortage of missiles in that case.

In that scenario, one force has to come closer to score a definite hit or to establish air superiority in a sector. And that can't be achieved by firing missiles at full range.
 

Arulmozhi Varman

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I am pretty sure, (call me a fool if that gives you orgasm or consult hakeem @Retired Troll ), but KLJ-7A advertised range is just a Mask used for you people. You really think that you can derive it’s range on the basis of “NO ACTUAL FACTS ABOUT KLJ-7A AIRCOOLED” ? Grow up, be realistic even if you are from India. A country which has produced 1800+T/R module radar for J-20 (rumoured even 2200+), and J-10C as well as J-16 radar also don’t count much less, That they will produce a radar for PAF and Thunder having such a petty range ?

Let me remind you, Block 2 Thunders could have changed the whole scenario that day if those 9 aircrafts were downed as well, but kon samjaye tum logon ko. Eager to see another such stupid event started by India, bring in your Rafales this time. We don’t want anything less...

They can even develop a radome for jf-17 with 360 view. The issue is engine power. Does it has enough power to spruce up the Radar with some thousands of Transmission/Receiver modules? Has the mission computer upgraded to process faster with so much modules? The Radar can only be constrained by radome Dia and there is a limit number of TR modules or the power it can draw. Has the -17 been reengined with a higher thrust engine?
If anything the Feb 27 has proved the timeless reliability and quality of F16. The JF17 is still unproven.

Do mind me asking what stopped IAF to employ more fighters than PAF, as they clearly have numerical advantage...
It's not the fighters alone. 24 fighters deployed by PAF were in various sectors to draw the IAF large. But credit to IAF, they figured the tactics and deduced the likely place the PAF will attack and responded to them. Moreover PAF didn't cross border. They dropped their bombs well inside the border. If PAF had crossed border like IAF did the previous night then possibly a larger number might have been used to intercept.

By the time IAF figured out and sent more fighters to that sector, Su30 and Mirages, Abhi had crossed the border chasing an F16 with one M17 shot down by our own missile and the conflict was done by then. This incident draws lesson to Indian AWACS numbers which are less in numbers and BVRs having too less range than their radars. I hope IAF has learnt it's lesson and will prepare properly in the coming years.
 

taha137

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They can even develop a radome for jf-17 with 360 view. The issue is engine power. Does it has enough power to spruce up the Radar with some thousands of Transmission/Receiver modules? Has the mission computer upgraded to process faster with so much modules? The Radar can only be constrained by radome Dia and there is a limit number of TR modules or the power it can draw. Has the -17 been reengined with a higher thrust engine?
If anything the Feb 27 has proved the timeless reliability and quality of F16. The JF17 is still unproven.



It's not the fighters alone. 24 fighters deployed by PAF were in various sectors to draw the IAF large. But credit to IAF, they figured the tactics and deduced the likely place the PAF will attack and responded to them. Moreover PAF didn't cross border. They dropped their bombs well inside the border. If PAF had crossed border like IAF did the previous night then possibly a larger number might have been used to intercept.

By the time IAF figured out and sent more fighters to that sector, Su30 and Mirages, Abhi had crossed the border chasing an F16 with one M17 shot down by our own missile and the conflict was done by then. This incident draws lesson to Indian AWACS numbers which are less in numbers and BVRs having too less range than their radars. I hope IAF has learnt it's lesson and will prepare properly in the coming years.
If 24 fighters were deployed in different sectors So that means in the sector where fighting took place, PAF and IAF were even, again my question what stopped IAF to employ more fighters in that specific sector when they had figured out, and why they didn't escalated the battle further....

You are saying that PAF fired bombs well inside their borders so which plane was abhinandan chasing as PAF was well within its borders as you you have clearly mentioned...
 

NA71

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frankly its very good for Pakistan that IAF is not taking KLJ-7A seriously.......it is dragon's brain ....simply ...a system designed to create surprises in Air and fantastic tea on ground.:p:
 

Basel

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Agreed!

Even we are totally surprised.... What iaf planner were thinking..... :hitwall::crazy:
If India think that Pakistan will not upgrade its capabilities to tackle Indian threat then they are fools, H-4 and SD-10 etc will be superseded by their successor and also work on other weapons are on going.
 

Arulmozhi Varman

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If 24 fighters were deployed in different sectors So that means in the sector where fighting took place, PAF and IAF were even, again my question what stopped IAF to employ more fighters in that specific sector when they had figured out, and why they didn't escalated the battle further....

You are saying that PAF fired bombs well inside their borders so which plane was abhinandan chasing as PAF was well within its borders as you you have clearly mentioned...
Nobody has the inside going in the command structures why in a particular sector there were less ac. Remember initially we responded with only 2 Migs while Su and Mirages were in adjacent sectors and they were diverted to the sector where engagement took place. Even in the particular sector it's reported 12 PAF planes were present.
After a while there were 3 more ac, I guess 2 Su and 1 mirage were added to the package. But by the time they responded it was too late.

Abhinandan chased the F16 after it had dropped the package into army compound. We cannot escalate further due to reasons mentioned above. Abhi being captured and paraded in camera, Mi17 getting shot by our own air defence. More then Abhi, Mi17 getting shot through own AD sent shockwaves through the IAF establishment. Deficiencies of IAF showed. We are working to rectify that. No Pakistani posters are asking questions on other hand on what paf was doing on 26th when IAF went in and dropped bombs. Infact they responded only after IAF returned safely in.
 

truthseeker2010

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Nobody has the inside going in the command structures why in a particular sector there were less ac. Remember initially we responded with only 2 Migs while Su and Mirages were in adjacent sectors and they were diverted to the sector where engagement took place. Even in the particular sector it's reported 12 PAF planes were present.
After a while there were 3 more ac, I guess 2 Su and 1 mirage were added to the package. But by the time they responded it was too late.

Abhinandan chased the F16 after it had dropped the package into army compound. We cannot escalate further due to reasons mentioned above. Abhi being captured and paraded in camera, Mi17 getting shot by our own air defence. More then Abhi, Mi17 getting shot through own AD sent shockwaves through the IAF establishment. Deficiencies of IAF showed. We are working to rectify that. No Pakistani posters are asking questions on other hand on what paf was doing on 26th when IAF went in and dropped bombs. Infact they responded only after IAF returned safely in.
If IAF was that Good Why didn't IAF responded? Since they were 2 aircraft down, must have avenged that.
 

taha137

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F16s didn't drop any load on the compound, it was mirages and the JF17s so why was Abhi chasing an F16 and where was his wingman? But still I can't get my head around the fact that after the night of 26 Feb, when IAF was expecting a retaliation from PAF, why there were less fighters to respond to PAF incursion....

Nobody has the inside going in the command structures why in a particular sector there were less ac. Remember initially we responded with only 2 Migs while Su and Mirages were in adjacent sectors and they were diverted to the sector where engagement took place. Even in the particular sector it's reported 12 PAF planes were present.
After a while there were 3 more ac, I guess 2 Su and 1 mirage were added to the package. But by the time they responded it was too late.

Abhinandan chased the F16 after it had dropped the package into army compound. We cannot escalate further due to reasons mentioned above. Abhi being captured and paraded in camera, Mi17 getting shot by our own air defence. More then Abhi, Mi17 getting shot through own AD sent shockwaves through the IAF establishment. Deficiencies of IAF showed. We are working to rectify that. No Pakistani posters are asking questions on other hand on what paf was doing on 26th when IAF went in and dropped bombs. Infact they responded only after IAF returned safely in.
 

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