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IAF Mirage 2000 Upgrade Slowed By Weapons

luckyyy

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Good to know, so in your opinion LCA is not a fighter as well, because in strike role, it has the same loadout like our Mirages back then and will carry only 2 x SR missiles, which means it will require dedicated escorts as well!

LCA on a attack mission should be excorted by a LCA only if it's a true multi-role fighter , there is no point a LCA squadren asking help from another squadren flying a different aircraft for excort help .....

in kargil ,only 12 mirage were modify to drop bombs , still mirage squadren has enough mirages to provide excort to their heavly loaded mirages on attack mission but they ask for excort from mig-29 , clearly that shows that IAF consider mirage are not worth in A2A against PAF F-16 ..
 

Abingdonboy

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As per IAF ACM Naik's comments the UPG deal should be going to CCS this week or next so this deal could be sighned very soon.
 

DacterSaab

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LCA on a attack mission should be excorted by a LCA only if it's a true multi-role fighter , there is no point a LCA squadren asking help from another squadren flying a different aircraft for excort help .....

in kargil ,only 12 mirage were modify to drop bombs , still mirage squadren has enough mirages to provide excort to their heavly loaded mirages on attack mission but they ask for excort from mig-29 , clearly that shows that IAF consider mirage are not worth in A2A against PAF F-16 ..
So according to you If a Su-30 MKI goes to drop bombs over a target and is escorted by a Mig-29 with BVR missiles then even MKI will become a strike aircraft useless in A2A????????
I think Mig-29s were used because Mig-29s were designed with the specific purpose of outperforming F-16s (which are delta wing fighters just like Mirages so i wouldn't be surprised if Mig-29s outperformed Mirages in A2A as was stated in an earlier post.)
After all in the end it is what the IAF decides to do.
Also if you remember during MMRCA some pilot had said that IAF has had practice with Singapore Air Force F-16s and flown them and find them to be very similar in performance to IAF Mirages.
So if f-16=Mirage in A2A then our enemy was flying F-16s and using Mirages for A2A combat would not allow our pilots any technical/tactical benefit hence they used the more efficient f-16 repellers which we had in our inventory for A2A role.
Even today the Mirage is much more suitable for A2G roles as compared to Mig-29s. So i think they went for the best strategy they had available. I would have preferred no other way.
 

luckyyy

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DacterSaab , it will be the funniest moment to see the SU-30MKI squadren asking for mig-29 support on their atttack mission..
 

DacterSaab

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brother the Su-30MKI is not going to ask for mig-29 help

but a Su-30MKI armed with A2G weapons (expectantly carrying 2 WVR A2A missiles and 2 BVR A2A missiles all other pylons with A2G weapons) maybe teamed up with a Mig-29 carrying only A2A weapons for a few missions and would be a force to recon it's all about achieving our goals by using our machines flexibly in order to take maximum advantage of the situation.

And i truly hope you read the whole thing and didn't just jump on the first line my friend.
 

brational

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Guys, its confirmed that the MoD is going to ugrade the Mirage.. Chalo, we will use it for another 10 years and keep our well wishers accross the borders happy.. 1 more headache to them.. the deal will be signed in 2 weeks as per the IAF Chief..
 

sancho

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LCA on a attack mission should be excorted by a LCA only if it's a true multi-role fighter , there is no point a LCA squadren asking help from another squadren flying a different aircraft for excort help .....

in kargil ,only 12 mirage were modify to drop bombs , still mirage squadren has enough mirages to provide excort to their heavly loaded mirages on attack mission but they ask for excort from mig-29 , clearly that shows that IAF consider mirage are not worth in A2A against PAF F-16 ..

I love it when people state the same wrong stuff on and on, with the hope that they somehow turn to be right, but I'm sorry to destroy your hopes, that's not going to happen! :rolleyes:

As already explain, the Mirage back then didn't had real BVR capability, that's why the Mig 29s were chosen for escorts, while the Mirage did the strikes with dumb and laser guided bombs, that the Migs couldn't do.
The same reason why the French Mirage 2000D that does strikes in Libya, are escorted by Mirage 2000-5s with dedicated A2A loads (3 x MICA IR and 3 x EM).
If IAF would want to do the same strikes they did then, with the M2K-5, they wouldn't need escorts at all, because the load would be like this:

- center line fuel tank
- 2 x Paveway 2 LGBs
- 1 x LDP (back then only the twin seaters used them)
- 1 x MICA IR (without LDP 2)
- 2 x MICA EM

and still 2 wingstations would be free for another 2 x missiles

With integrated EWS, the additional hardpoints, the MICA missile and Topsight HMS, the Mirage is well suited for A2A and A2G, even at the same mission!
 

sancho

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Guys, its confirmed that the MoD is going to ugrade the Mirage.. Chalo, we will use it for another 10 years and keep our well wishers accross the borders happy.. 1 more headache to them.. the deal will be signed in 2 weeks as per the IAF Chief..
Not fully confirmed yet, but see Abingdonboy's post # 77, which is the latest and official info about it.
 

KEETARP

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The Migs will carry the same KAB 500s that the MKI uses, while the Mirage can use US, Israeli and French bomb kits, not to mention the other weaponary. In A2A as mentioned before, so the M2K-5 will be much closer in A2A and still superior in A2G!
Impossible - because Mirage lacks in pure kinematics and sheer power .

When you claim Mirage will come close to mig29 in A2A performance . How do you explain the very basic deficiency correction in Mirage .
- No engine upgrade , how come T/W got bridged .
- How will rate of climb improve
- How come sustained turn rate improved overnight , with Drag of Delta wing persisiting .
- How come instantenous rate of turn improved overnight .
- I dont see any reason for Rdy-3 to be superior , RDY-2 if - was part of package then yes comparable to Zhuk's performance . But Rdy-3 certainly not .
If any ---with addition of fly-by-wire to Mig29 , it will outclass mirage even more than it did by manual hydraulic control

And to add these are words of Ex- Air Marshal Masand .
Pilot who flew Mig29 in DACT exercise between Mig vs Mirage . And he spanked Mirage badly

If you want - I can post that 12 years old article here . Which he wrote himself with pictures of exercise .

And as far as PGM is concerned .
Mig never carried them , so after upgrade with new weapon management sysytem - If Migs carry KAB500 + KH29 A2S
KH35 Antiship , Kh31 Anti radiation missile .
I see Mig closing gap rather than other way round .
 

KEETARP

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I think Mig-29s were used because Mig-29s were designed with the specific purpose of outperforming F-16s (which are delta wing fighters just like Mirages so i wouldn't be surprised if Mig-29s outperformed Mirages in A2A as was stated in an earlier post.)
F16 - a delta wing , Did i miss something for last 12 years . Or did PAF ordered XL version ???

Don't tempt me , but F16 is way better fighter than Mirage2000 .

Offtopic , but are you a doc by the way .
 

anathema

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And to add these are words of Ex- Air Marshal Masand .
Pilot who flew Mig29 in DACT exercise between Mig vs Mirage . And he spanked Mirage badly

If you want - I can post that 12 years old article here . Which he wrote himself with pictures of exercise .

.
Prateek -

Good to see you around.

Can you please post the article or message it to me. I always wanted to read that article
 

KEETARP

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Hi . Good to see you back . Took a break or what ???
- just give me few minutes to upload it on hosting site
 

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